I understand not wanting to trade live when you cannot fully concentrate on the trading. Can't ask a pitcher to teach you how to throw a curve ball, while he is in the middle of a game. I don't have a problem with a trading room trading sim. Sure, live is ideal, but the important thing is that the calls are identified and taken in real time in front of the members, not that hindsight stuff, "there was an entry right there, you would have made a gazillion dollars".
Roger is playing a dubious tactic, he is trolling around multiple forums looking for new customers under the guise of wanting to help traders. This seems to be back firing for him. On the other forum mentioned, he is challenging traders by offering some weird million dollar challenge, that's just plain weird for any legitimate vendor. He should use that million dollars to advertise on CNBC.
Last edited by monpere; September 15th, 2012 at 08:49 AM.
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I would agree. I've been in a few rooms now and have seen how these hosts get caught in claiming they were trading live when it was actually sim. One room said they traded a live 20k account, but then based on past reports by ex-members they say that every year. OTOH, I've seen about three rooms where I'm convinced it was live. One of them was @cjbooth 's room which he did for about 4 months. The room was free and he was trading for himself using the best times to trade on the Euro futures in the early morning hours. Another is Al Brook's room. But he only reports trades after the fact if any. If a professional trader doesn't trade live in a room I'm more convinced they aren't professional to begin with, or have not daytraded live in a long time and are actually investing their revenue from clientele in a different way, or are not choosing to teach a trading method that actually works.
I understand cjbooth stopped his trading room because he could not concentrate on his live trading, while running the room, moderating, teaching his method, and trading live at the same time. It was negatively affecting his performance, so he shut down the room so he could actually trade his method properly in order to make his living trading.
This actually happens more often than people realize because there are negative impacts on your trading at the beginning stages of running a chat room. There are also opportunity costs (especially if you're trading more than one account) which easily exceed any revenues generated. So for those who worked their butts off to get through the real $ meat grinder and decide to try their hand at training, the usual and perfectly understandable response is that they've worked way too hard to jeopardize what they've accomplished so they shut it down.
But like everything else in trading you have to pay your dues before you receive any benefits. And this is no exception because if you work through the initial adversity it will definitely improve your trading in ways I don't believe are possible any other way.
Btw, I am not a vendor - been there, done that, glad I did it once but can't imagine why I would ever do it again. Nor am I familiar with any of the ones mentioned here. Just sharing experiences from a past life for those who might be interested.
That's news to me. Unless you had heard from others close to him those things that I didn't as I didn't know him personally. I was a member of his room until the end.. Most of the time we were quiet and waiting while he found a trade. He actively wanted us to participate with questions at times or with something new he was trying out. After the first month he had mostly stopped going over the basics of his method and we knew basic questions would no longer be welcomed. I had assumed he was bothered by ongoings outside the room (maybe bothered by emails from individuals or vendors) or he just got tired of doing it when he decided to shut it down. He owed nothing to us as the room was free except we were required to subscribe to Kwik-pop.
Last edited by Cloudy; September 17th, 2012 at 11:53 AM.
I was checking out the room for a couple of weeks near the end of 2011. I observed increasingly how he got distracted, frustrated, when he missed, lost, or mismanaged trades. He increasingly asked for 'less chatter' in the room, and sent several emails regarding that. Then on Dec 14, he sent the following email saying that he would only open the room for an hour near the end of the European session, only to review the trades he took that day in private. I am including an excerp of the email below, where he clearly expressed the room was impacting his trading. That is when I stopped going to the room because I didn't want to just see someone review trades after they had been taken. I'm not sure what happened after I left, but I think a few weeks later, the room was closed permanently.
Last edited by monpere; September 17th, 2012 at 12:27 PM.
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Wanting to take the guesswork out is the #1 reason why vendors selling expensive nothingness are still in business. Trading is by definition guesswork, even if it's statistically rooted guesswork. Seeking certainty is not the way to doing well in trading, particularly when the certainty comes from someone else. At least vendors keep fresh money coming into the market which will only be transferred in a short amount of time, I suppose that is a good service to the community.
Maybe you saw me there as my id was Cloudy. There could have been a couple of people that bugged CJ, but most of the time we were quiet and waited for hours most sessions. I remember that email and thought he was upset but not sure if it was the room or bad trading conditions. Following CJ's room since August, it would have been seen conditions got worse for the method. We concluded Mid December to the holidays like most markets was very low volume and slow. I remember that email. That was the time when CJ took a break off the room. We came back in Jan. The last one about the room on the 10th of January.
Let me clear that I am not stopping my trading room, on the other hand my method nor anyone else's is going to produce good trades in this crappy volume and price ranges.
With the way I take trying to help you guys personally it is to stressful right now in these conditions to try to find myself a trade much less moderate a trading room and help you find one
I ask you to stay in touch as will I with you through emails until this market gets it’s head out it’s pants and starts reacting to something
I'm not sure if it was because of the room and/or the "crappy" conditions he stopped it. It was perfectly fine when we were making good money until mid-November. We were happy about it and CJ's moral and the room's was good and we regularly attended those long hours with his "coffee" breaks. And he tested us and asked us to comment on his ideas, or we waited all the morning hours for good setups. But I can understand if he wanted to withdraw back to his own trading since December when things changed.
His last email on the 1st of Feb was saying he was on skype if we wanted to stay involved. I chose not to continue. I very much appreciated his help. His room was the first live daytrading experience I saw that worked for that time. And gave me hope daytrading could realistically actually work if one found his way.
Last edited by Cloudy; September 17th, 2012 at 02:14 PM.
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