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Has anyone ever heard of Felton Trading? (www.feltontrading.com)
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Has anyone ever heard of Felton Trading? (www.feltontrading.com)

  #221 (permalink)
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sp139214 View Post
Has anyone ever hear of Felton Trading?

I was out surfing on several locations and was wondering if anyone had tried this?

www.feltontrading.com

For those who have questions about this vendor or any others, here are sites where many of them give presentations for free. Roger is giving one today and I will be there. I'm sure I will learn at leat one thing that I don't already know. That's why I go to a couple of these every week.

Roger's presentation today: https://tradingontarget.omnovia.com/registration/pid=49011322067552

another site:
Online Trader Central Calendar: Welcome to OnlineTraderCentral.com

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  #222 (permalink)
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I'm not interested in sparring with Roger. If you read my various posts in this thread you will see that I am entirely even-handed. I believe in letting people have their say and listening respectfully without pre-judging the issue.

Asking questions in an effort to understand what someone is selling is not a game. Nor is pointing out flaws in someone's interpretations or arguments.. It is an effort to get some approximate truth.

I'm not sure what you might have read in my posts that suggest that I was expecting IMMEDIATE positive results. I expect no such thing. I do expect that training over an appropriate period of time should yield positive skill acquisition. If not then some inquiry seems in order. I was suggesting that perhaps the explanation is that this is a skill that is hard or perhaps impossible to "teach".

So here's what I have heard from this thread in response my questions so far:

1. Most people don't make the grade as traders but most of them do master the setups, software, rules.
2. Some students (probably a relatively small #) become successful traders.
3. Some of failures are lazy.
3. Some of them fail for mysterious reasons that a psychologist might be able to explain.

As soon as I have the scheduling worked out I'll be happy to drop by the Felton trade room and see what I can learn. Thanks for the invitation.

Regards,

PS. Yes, Hap. I am a "doc" but not a frustrated trader. Frustrated only by how hard it is to get a straight answer from trading vendors of various stripes.


Hapster View Post
Exiledgoblin -- or should I say Professor Exiledgoblin:

It seems like you're wanting to hear that people are IMMEDIATELY seeing positive results from Felton students after signing up with Felton Trading or you are considering that it's just simply a lottery ticket. Nothing could be further from the truth IMO. I've been with FT now for about three months. Do I have any regrets about signing up? Absolutely not. Have I become a trading millionaire yet? Certainly not. Have I become a better trader showing better results than when I walked in the door? You bet I have!!

There's a lot of training that's involved and a rather -- well, I won't say too "steep" of a learning curve, but there's definitely a learning curve, as Jillzy has mentioned previously here. There is a LOT of data to absorb and lots of things to take into account in the software that's provided. There's some tweaking involved. There's a good amount of SIM trading involved to test out the new "tools" that Divergence Pro and the entire system offers. Do I stumble occasionally in my trading efforts? You bet I do. But the camaraderie of the trading room, the training involved, being able to watch a trader with umpteen more hours behind the screen than I do is worth the price of admission in my opinion. I guess I'm not at my 10,000 hours yet.

I can't seem to understand why you keep insisting this is a lottery ticket that's purchased by the students without even having been in the room at all. Is that correct? Or have you? Any particular reason you just haven't signed up as a guest to come in instead of sparring here with Roger?
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I'm just a student, but I'm personally inviting you to come by and check it out. I see you're an Elite member so you can come in as long as you like. From my experience and from what I can tell -- as I don't know any of the fellow students personally -- but I'd venture to guess that a hefty percentage of the students have been trading for a while but haven't seen the results they thought they were going to have seen by now so they've landed at Felton. I'll loosely call them "frustrated traders." Perhaps YOU, too, are a "frustrated trader."

Like you, I also have a professional career that I practice after trading in the morning. I'm grateful and lucky that I live on the west coast so it allows me that opportunity. I'm also grateful that I have AT LEAST 10,000 hours under my belt at that craft and perform it like a master, as Roger does with trading. No, I haven't quit my day job yet, but that's definitely my goal -- and it's a much more realistic goal thinking about it in the last three months.

Hope to "see" you in the room, Doc. (You are a Doc; right?)

Hap


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  #223 (permalink)
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Hapster View Post
Exiledgoblin -- or should I say Professor Exiledgoblin:

It seems like you're wanting to hear that people are IMMEDIATELY seeing positive results from Felton students after signing up with Felton Trading or you are considering that it's just simply a lottery ticket. Nothing could be further from the truth IMO. I've been with FT now for about three months. Do I have any regrets about signing up? Absolutely not. Have I become a trading millionaire yet? Certainly not. Have I become a better trader showing better results than when I walked in the door? You bet I have!!

There's a lot of training that's involved and a rather -- well, I won't say too "steep" of a learning curve, but there's definitely a learning curve, as Jillzy has mentioned previously here. There is a LOT of data to absorb and lots of things to take into account in the software that's provided. There's some tweaking involved. There's a good amount of SIM trading involved to test out the new "tools" that Divergence Pro and the entire system offers. Do I stumble occasionally in my trading efforts? You bet I do. But the camaraderie of the trading room, the training involved, being able to watch a trader with umpteen more hours behind the screen than I do is worth the price of admission in my opinion. I guess I'm not at my 10,000 hours yet.

I can't seem to understand why you keep insisting this is a lottery ticket that's purchased by the students without even having been in the room at all. Is that correct? Or have you? Any particular reason you just haven't signed up as a guest to come in instead of sparring here with Roger?
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I'm just a student, but I'm personally inviting you to come by and check it out. I see you're an Elite member so you can come in as long as you like. From my experience and from what I can tell -- as I don't know any of the fellow students personally -- but I'd venture to guess that a hefty percentage of the students have been trading for a while but haven't seen the results they thought they were going to have seen by now so they've landed at Felton. I'll loosely call them "frustrated traders." Perhaps YOU, too, are a "frustrated trader."

Like you, I also have a professional career that I practice after trading in the morning. I'm grateful and lucky that I live on the west coast so it allows me that opportunity. I'm also grateful that I have AT LEAST 10,000 hours under my belt at that craft and perform it like a master, as Roger does with trading. No, I haven't quit my day job yet, but that's definitely my goal -- and it's a much more realistic goal thinking about it in the last three months.

Hope to "see" you in the room, Doc. (You are a Doc; right?)

Hap

hi hap

just curious, why are you going on and on making spurious assumptions concerning others; calling your fellow students--frustrated traders? at best, you are not a trader yet, you are learning how to trade with consistency from rogerf; questioning exiledglobin as to why he has not signed up to visit rogerf trading room? not everyone has ample time on hand to participate or observe trading classrooms; to top it off, attributing 'frustrated trader' to exiledglobin.... as a student, you really have no biz to behave the way you did, don't you think? you have been with rogerf for some 3 months, his super human relations quality among his superlative trading skills ought to have already been beneficial to you some.

you are in ft to learn how to trade, isn't that correct? and hopefully learn to trade profitably? and more importantly yet, learn to trade with consistent profitability too? isn't that your wish, hope and dream?

our good fellow rogerf is a very good and a reasonable man and a potentially great trader who refuses to rise to the top because of his own personal reasons which everyone ought to respect, including myself.

and you as one of his students, really ought to afford your very capable teacher some courtesy--not to speak for him or on his behalf, when he is still very eloquent and mentally competent to respond and trade, alright? rogerf will, i presume, respond whenever he himself deems fit and appropriate to do so. i do not mean nor wish to chastise you--that surely is not my intention at all either, K? so plse do not get all worked up, plse?

sa-wad-dee bhe-mai krub, khun hap.
(สวัดดี ปีใหม่ ครับ, คุณเฮป)
(merry christmas and happy new year to you, all rolled into one, for the thais)

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  #224 (permalink)
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So we're making some kind of progress after all...2 steps forward and 1 step back. Or maybe 2 steps back.

If I were oblivious to the emotional side of trading I would hardly be insisting on the huge difference between SIM trading and live trading. I know the emotional issues very well. I SIM traded for over a year with great success. When I moved into the live market my performance suffered enormously. This is for many, many traders the heart of the matter.

If I understand Roger's argument he seems to be saying that despite great success in mastering technical setups and learning the FT method, most students fail as traders for a multitude of reasons -- but especially for emotional reasons associated with trading risk. He can teach them the setups and he's hoping that their trading fears can be addressed by his new psychologist. So now FT has a three pronged approach:
1. Computer assisted entry signals.
2. Roger's mentoring.
3. A newly minted psychology coach.

I wish him and his students the best of luck!


rogerf View Post
Let's put it this way: In the first 30 days of training, a minimum of 98% of students understand the method completely. The majority could probably teach the course. They watch me trade every day following the same rules they have been taught. They get the knowledge and it is taught very well. I get lots of kudos and zero complaints.

So, why do traders fail? Volumes have been written on that topic. Big Mike has webinars on the psychology of trading. It seems you are oblivious to the dramatic negative influence that emotions play in trading. I suggest that you try reading some of the hundreds of books written on trading psychology. Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas might be a good start.

The nasty effects of human emotions has always been a subject I discussed extensively...but I'm not a trained psychologist. That's why I hired one and I fully expect that to be a big factor in the success rate of my students.


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  #225 (permalink)
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hear ye, hear ye, rogerf has spoken.... preferring sim over live trading

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rogerf View Post
As I have stated so many times before, I have tried moderating both with a live account and in simulation. For teaching purposes, simulation is much more effective and it's the way my students requested I teach. When I trade my live account, I am totally serious, totally focused and totally quiet. Students learn little... only what they see. I don't answer questions. I only take two or three trades in a three hour span. It's very boring and a lousy way to teach.

If anyone thinks that they are going to enjoy tremendous success simply because their moderator is trading his live account, then by all means go find one. You need a showboater, not a mentor. It is far better to have a mentor that can teach than to have a live account trader who cannot.

I have had two conversations with our staff psychologist on this topic and he actually pointed out a couple of more good reasons why my trading a live account would be counter-productive.

So, let's stop the criticism and simply go our separate ways. We'll never agree on this. I don't let people who don't have a clue what or how I teach dictate my methods and I'd lose respect for any instructor that did. If someone can teach...and teach well...it doesn't matter which mode is traded as long as the system and rules are followed.

Also, I don't need "exposure". I do not want to teach the world how to trade. I keep my group relatively small and manageable. That's why we never advertise. A large group would be a lot of work and I'd certainly be less effective.

rogerf, you have spoken and unequivocally i for one will not engage you any longer on the topic of your preference of sim trading over live trading as an instructional vehicle in your very own trading room. i'll accept your decision that in your professional opinion and experiences you conclude that it is just as effective to trade sim as to trade live account for instructional purpose. and as far as i am concerned this topic is done with and i shall not bring it up with you any more henceforth.

in my opinion, those who trade live, whether they are teaching or trading for a living will continue to regard sim trading as play ground of amateurs and wannabes, sorry; even though as you stated that your own in-house psy is also in agreement with you which i am very happy for you both. wishing you the very best in helping other wannabe traders to become consistently profitable. wishing you and yours a very merry christmas and happy new year as well.

pls do let us know when your in-house psy person would make his debut, OK?

incidentally, if i were you, i would also tell others the name of your psy person, at least to honor him that much in public. but then again you are your own absolute master, do whatever pleases you, sir.

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  #226 (permalink)
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exiledgoblin View Post
So we're making some kind of progress after all...2 steps forward and 1 step back. Or maybe 2 steps back.

If I were oblivious to the emotional side of trading I would hardly be insisting on the huge difference between SIM trading and live trading. I know the emotional issues very well. I SIM traded for over a year with great success. When I moved into the live market my performance suffered enormously. This is for many, many traders the heart of the matter.

If I understand Roger's argument he seems to be saying that despite great success in mastering technical setups and learning the FT method, most students fail as traders for a multitude of reasons -- but especially for emotional reasons associated with trading risk. He can teach them the setups and he's hoping that their trading fears can be addressed by his new psychologist. So now FT has a three pronged approach:
1. Computer assisted entry signals.
2. Roger's mentoring.
3. A newly minted psychology coach.

I wish him and his students the best of luck!

For the record, he's not a "newly minted" psychology coach. He comes to FT with considerable experience helping traders master their emotions.

Please help me to understand...in one post you say, "Some of them fail for mysterious reasons that a psychologist might be able to explain." Then, in a later post you state, " I know the emotional issues very well. I SIM traded for over a year with great success. When I moved into the live market my performance suffered enormously."

If you understand emotional issues so well, how is it that you find them "mysterious" and need a psychologist to explain them to you? Sorry, I'm just confused by these two statements.

Also, I'm curious to know if, when you went from simulated to live account trading, did your system or method magically just stop working? Were you duped by incompetent mentors? Did they teach you a system that could somehow tell you were trading your live account and turned on you like Cujo?

Or could it be that the training was sound and comprehensive and in fact it was you and your fears that sabotaged your success and had nothing to do with the quality of your training and mentorship?

Think carefully before you answer. We might be on the verge of taking 2 steps forward again.


Last edited by rogerf; November 30th, 2011 at 10:49 PM.
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  #227 (permalink)
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i wish roger had a cool avitar like the silver surfer or maybe a transformer or something lol...sharky

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  #228 (permalink)
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i was scared to post that but i overcame my fear and posted it anyways...someone thank me,hehe sharky

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  #229 (permalink)
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by rogerf own admission on nov 29; sim is different from trading live....


rogerf View Post
For the record, he's not a "newly minted" psychology coach. He comes to FT with considerable experience helping traders master their emotions.

Please help me to understand...in one post you say, "Some of them fail for mysterious reasons that a psychologist might be able to explain." Then, in a later post you state, " I know the emotional issues very well. I SIM traded for over a year with great success. When I moved into the live market my performance suffered enormously."

If you understand emotional issues so well, how is it that you find them "mysterious" and need a psychologist to explain them to you? Sorry, I'm just confused by these two statements.

Also, I'm curious to know if, when you went from simulated to live account trading, did your system or method magically just stop working? Were you duped by incompetent mentors? Did they teach you a system that could somehow tell you were trading your live account and turned on you like Cujo?

Or could it be that the training was sound and comprehensive and in fact it was you and your fears that sabotaged your success and had nothing to do with the quality of your training and mentorship?

Think carefully before you answer. We might be on the verge of taking 2 steps forward again.

----------------------

rogerf View Post
on or about tuesday, november 29, 2011; rogerf revealed in a bmt thread that:

....As I have stated so many times before, I have tried moderating both with a live account and in simulation. For teaching purposes, simulation is much more effective and it's the way my students requested I teach. When I trade my live account, I am totally serious, totally focused and totally quiet....
----------------
I have had two conversations with our staff psychologist on this topic and he actually pointed out a couple of more good reasons why my trading a live account would be counter-productive.
----------------

So, let's stop the criticism and simply go our separate ways. We'll never agree on this....

----------------------
rogerf,

there is never a criticism intended any where, my friend. there are only questions from traders who are unclear about your trading philosophy, issues and trading concerns and practices. you really should not be that personally defensive about nothing, really.

specifically, prior to re-reading your opinion and experiences concerning trading sim vs live declared by your good self on november 29, 201, i was sort of, in your behalf, on fire trying to figure out different ways to incite you to take the next necessary step toward becoming a truly professional trader which i think you deserve.... however, after reading your post which was quoted above, i'd better leave you alone to continue to happily trade your sim....

nevertheless, it seems to me that it is empirically regarded that only those who trade live can be accorded the title--professional traders, while the rest of the traders who for various reasons, prefer to trade on sim which, in and of itself, there is nothing wrong or undesirable about choosing sim trading; but the latter ought to realize that maybe they are at this point in time not quite ready for the acclaimation of the so-called professional traders status yet.

on the other hand, i do not think for a minute that big mike or any member herein would give it a hoot if someone would like to call himself/herself a professional trader or a master trader, irrespective of experiences or qualifications. i just believe that most members are just very engrossed in seeking different ways to becoming profitable and subsequently attaining the next step of utopia--on becoming consistently profitable traders, as quickly as they possibly can....

whatever name a trader desires to call himself/herself is really something personal and it won't bother too many people here either....; is my 2 wooden indian nickles worth.
------------------
and about your statement on the following, may i respond to it sometimes latter so as not to bore my fellow traders too much and too long here;

rogerf;173388
For the record, he's not a "newly minted" psychology coach. He comes to FT with considerable experience helping traders master their emotions
.


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  #230 (permalink)
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You've got WAYYYY too much time on your hands, dude.

คุณจะได้มีเวลา WAYYYY มากเกินไปในมือของคุณครับ

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