Broker/Data: Mirus Futrues, Zen-Fire, IQFeed, Kinetick
Favorite Futures: 6E, CL, GC
Posts: 132 since Apr 2010
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Two interesting sides of the coin. Monpere takes a more narrow but understandable view of the trading education industry. The vast majority of trading "gurus" have no business teaching something they can't do. In this business, even free advice can be terribly expensive if it's wrong. If teaching traders to be their best involved all the work monpere describes, I'd probably take his advice and just trade. But nearly every business involves teamwork where the best people are hired to perform specific duties. In this business, no single person can do it all. But I honestly love what I do and I'll not apologize for that.
Trader Duck brings up another good point. Nobody will ever be able to be all things to all traders. One of the first things I tell students is to never abandon what is working for them already. Trader Duck's system is, in his words, better than mine . He's trading a system he fully understands, not mine which he doesn't. Logically speaking, Trader Duck's system is evidently already providing a nice income for him and keeps him in the top 10% of the world's traders consistently. I commend Trader Duck for not being tempted to change horses in the middle of a race he's already winning. That would make no sense.
In my entire working life, as with most people, everything involved providing a service of some kind that was needed by others whether is was as an employee or running a company. This aspect of "working" has always been very important to me and I always strived to be the best at whatever I did. I got tremendous satisfaction in knowing that effort made other's lives better in some way. With pure trading, I'm not providing a service to anyone. The money is great, but something huge is missing.
Over the years, I've found that you can never argue personal values with someone that believes all that matters in life is making money. Personally, I don't think any individual possesses the wisdom to tell others how they should earn a living or what their personal motivations should be. But I could be wrong.
It always struck me as extremely odd that Trading Education is the only arena where the educators are vilified, not on the basis of their talents and knowledge, but simply because of the field in which they teach.
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I've gotten a few queries from people wanting an update. It's been 3 weeks now since I've joined FT. No, I'm not trading live yet. I hope to get there in the next week or so. The indicators have a lot to them and it takes time to learn the different options and set them up so they work for you. I have talked to classmates independently and can tell you it is working for others after a few months. I think you can do it faster than that if you have some trading experience and are willing to put in the work. I've also had some technical challenges (I suggest you get a computer with lots of RAM and run Windows 7 before running FT) which are just about sorted out now.
Overall, am I glad I am here? Yes definitely. Even if these indicators aren't any better thank anyone else's (and I think that they ARE better than most) one thing I have not found in many other places is daily trading, daily training AND mentoring. And I was excited to read that Roger is bringing a psychologist on board...which brings me to my next point...there is no holy grail! You have to master your own emotions and psychology to make any system work (I highly highly recommend Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas if you haven't read it).
Lastly, I noticed some people questioning whether the trades taken in the live trading room are real. They are. Not every single one is take in front of the room because Roger and Clint trade off...but even after Roger is off, he'll post his trades in the chat portion of the room real time; I've followed some of them and they're legit.
I hope that helps...feel free to ask me any other questions you may have.
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just curious again regarding your newly employed Doctorate of Psy
just curious, are you sure you got it all right in terms of your newly hired--Doctorate of Psychology? which is another great idea in addition to graciously allowing bmt members to attend your daily trading room gratis.
now coming back to your new hire, he did earn a Doctor of Psychology degree from some higher learning institutions, correct? and he himself never refers to his academic achievement as a Doctorate of Psychology, or does he? if he does, then you perhaps need to pay close attention.
most probably, he would say that he has earned a doctorate degree in psy (as distinguished from a ba or ma degree holder) and not a doctorate of psy degree, isn't that quite correct? just want to bring it to your attention, so when you present him in public or in your own trading room, you would be able to address and introduce him properly--only if you wish, roger.
to quote you--The psychological side of trading is so important that I have hired a Doctorate of Psychology who has many years of trading and mentoring experience to come on board starting in December....
an academically earned Ph.D. individual in psy area is not easy to come by at all, not even from among reputedly notorious cab drivers in new york city, who also are in possession of advance degrees but prefer the freedom to roam, drive, service and help those coming to visit the famous apple....
and on top of that, according to you, he also has many years of trading and mentoring experience as well.... now that is truly a big big plus on your column, roger. congratulations is in order indeed.
and perhaps, you would surely grant me another occasion to join your trading room, when he is on line live, to hear his wisdom in learning how to trade profitably for a living, won't you?
do you also know whether the initials appearing behind his name, contain a Ph.D. or an Ed.D. or other more modernized certifications?
as you also know that there are several specializations in the field of psy, such as; sports psy, experimental psy, cognitive psy, learning theory psy, abnormal psy et al; which is his field of specialization pls?
nevertheless, it is a very wise and far reaching decision to hire a full time qualified trading psychologist on your team. congrats again, roger. (just my humble one man opinion having nothing to do with nothing)
Last edited by nakachalet; November 27th, 2011 at 06:38 PM.
Of course Roger is going to allow you another occasion to join the trading room. You know that futures.io (formerly BMT) Elite members are granted that. However, I'm curious. You were in the trading room for I think a week awhile back. It took me only about three days' worth of the free trial to figure out that Felton Trading was what my trading plan lacked. What exactly would a repeat visit do for you that you couldn't figure out in a week of being there? What exactly are you looking for that you're not finding by visiting the room?
Sorry, Roger, but I've been meaning to answer this gentleman for a few of his posts now.
to be exact i was there three times, if that would help to jolt your memory.
i am also very happy that you've found the missing link in your trading setup and that ft could fill up that trading vacuum in your trading plan, seriously. you are very fortunate that you found the missing link so early on in your trading sojour, while many are still searching for that personal holy grail.
if you were to read my entire response in reference to ft, you would come to the conclusion that i am more in support of what he is doing than showering his school with negativities as you might have misconstrued the entire scene.
i also stated in one of my several responses that rogerf is probable a profitable trader. do you know why i dare to make that statement which i never made for any other trading schools yet (i only visited a few, whence time permits)?
the reason is really simplistic--his trading setup and contraption are quite similar to one of my own contraptions. i like to make the call as i see it and i gave credit to rogerf for all the positive impact.
as to why i would like a return visit since i was already there for 3 sessions? ahh, did you or did you not notice that rogerf has vaulted his training school to another level just this morning?
did you not read my response to his announcement of hiring a brand new psy person starting from dec? ah, you really ought to scroll back and read it which would invariably answer your question nicely, i presume, as to why i like to return to ft again?
honestly speaking, a psy person with prior experiences in live trading (profitable or not, is not an issue here) and accumulated hand-on teaching experiences, providing traders training for others who seek profitability is a true rarity, don't you think? do you think i would pass up that opportunity to listen and learn a few new insights from such a highly qualified entity, for free?
now to enlighten you and others, particularly Jillzy who kindly expounded her personal experiences in the ft trading room for other traders here on bmt which is much appreciated too.
perhaps, you, jillzy and many others are not aware that currently there are at least 3 trading parties or more who are using similar contraption and most also claim profitability but in view of the fact that there is no statistical evidence to prove or disprove their claims, who is to say if or when their claims are truly spurious or not.
if you have any doubt about what i stated, pls take another look at the attachment which was posted once already during the last month or so. however the person addressed to, somehow chooses not to respond, which is also alright with me. it is a trader's prerogative not to implicate oneself which i also believe in, silly as it might seem, alright?
inasmuch as i am in no position to judge in regard to the true original proprietor of the attachment, it is a shame to all the darling pretenders to the throne, attempting to claime proprietorialship when, in fact, most likely they are only imposters at best, imho.
now please do not get all worked up and bombard me, i already stated that.... in my humble opinion, OK?
as for you, hap krub, i would like to share my secret wish with you in reference to another secret reason i like to temporarily revisit your guru's trading room again with his and bev's permission, of course--that this reputed psy person would be able to convincingly point out to rogerf that....
THERE TRULY EXIST A SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT BETWEEN TRADING SIM AND TRADING LIVE WITH YOUR OWN MONEY.... which most trading for a living already discern and accept as another immutable and indisputable fact....
anyway, we'll see.... if rogerf's new hire--psychologist would dare to approach this subject with rogerf, which rogerf himself has been eluding and evading ever since his first post or so, with so many variations of excuse....LOL
as for him, our trading fellow rogerf, who stated again and again that apparently to him, there is no significant difference whether or not to trade sim or live, and i quote:
If anyone believes that they can become a great trader by simply watching someone trade a Live Account, then there's probably nothing I can say that will change their mind. But the truth is, it proves nothing.
rogerf, with all due respect, i hope your very own in-house psychologist would be able to shed some new light in your direction, so you would awake from your walter mitty environ, and stop insisting that--it makes no difference for traders or traders to be, whether the trading room is trading live or trading sim.
it seems only persons who never place a live trade before, would be denied that element of euphorically levitated experiences when the first live trade is being triggered.... well, as i said repeatedly, you are your own absolute master and whatever direction you take is also alright with me, a third party observer. as stated before, whatever personal and professional reason you have for not wanting to go on live account--is cheerfully respected by my humble self also, K? hope to see you again soon with your new psy person in action.
my humble apology to everyone who suffers thru my sort of wishing and nudging my trading friend, rogerf, toward becoming a fully mature guru in trading education.... unless and until rogerf turns live and trades live--IF NOTHING ELSE, TO PROVE TO HIMSELF, MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE; he will forever remain in the shadow... which i personally believe he honestly deserves much better exposure than that.... but then, at the very end.... it is all up to his own good self, isn't that so, rogerf?
pls do remember to compare the attached different setups claimed by different gurus as their own proprietorial properties and decide for yourself, who is the real original inventor, developer, programmer or coder, K? my apology everyone and thx much for your long suffering and indulgence, i solemnly promise to be more concise and succinct next time.
before i sign off though, perhaps you ought to know, the entity, as far as i know, who works up the original code is still working hard and feverishly among us even today. and the person is not among these pretenders to the throne by any long shot.... no, i do not have his permission to broadcast his identity, so i'd better shutup for now.
any more questions, khun hap....?
Last edited by nakachalet; November 28th, 2011 at 06:23 AM.
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Broker/Data: Amp Futures/CQG and Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: ES
Posts: 64 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 6 given,
I have no wish to vilify anyone. And the argument that if someone were any good at trading they would not be teaching is a kind of Catch 22. Sort of like: "If you know you don't teach. If you teach you don't know." This effectively rules out a priori that there could be any such thing as a valuable trading education.
I am simply trying to do some due diligence before sinking money into stuff I cannot test before purchasing and cannot get a refund on afterwards. I'm finished with that trap!!!
So apart from the impressive SIM numbers daily racked up by Roger and Clint in the Felton Trading room here are some additional numbers I'd be very interested in:
1. What percentage of Felton students wind up making money as successful traders? Given that they have the DivergencePro software and Roger's training and mentoring, what are the odds of being successful? Obviously, I'm not asking that anyone predict the success of any particular student. I'm asking for some historical stats on success rates.
2. In an effort to factor the various dimensions of Roger's impressive numbers it would be helpful if we could get a fix on the performance of the DivergencePro software itself. That is, it would be helpful if we had back test results along with the parameters used in terms of stop loss, targets, filters, etc. That would perhaps provide a useful measure of how help one might expect from the software and how much should be attributable to the skill that one might or might not be able to pick up from the mentoring process.
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I believe the numbers will be low, no matter how good Roger's room is. Trading is harder than most professions. Since it is the lure of easy and fast money that draws most people to trading, not many will be ready to put in the effort to make it in this tough game, so I don't think this will be a good indicator.
It's probably more Roger's skill than the indicator. It's his skill combined with the indicators that I'm most interested in. There are no magical indicators, no magical indicator settings and there never will be.
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