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Has anyone ever heard of Felton Trading? (www.feltontrading.com)
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Has anyone ever heard of Felton Trading? (www.feltontrading.com)

  #171 (permalink)
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my 50 cents

Roger, I have to say thanks. Due to you, I'm back to being profitable trading 1 round lot. I had been "on the fence" about your service for a few days. I kept thinking that your stuff is better and that even though I already love to trade divergences, maybe I could learn a whole lot from you. So I wasn't doing a whole lot of personal trading. Then I opened the email I received after the webinar and I saw the pricing. I almost passed out. When I told my wife, she said "Unless someone has a lot of money, they will have no money left to trade with after buying the course, software, and indicators!"

So after I picked myself up off the floor from passing out-- I put it in my head that I have to make MY OWN little charts in mt4 work. And they have been working. I had zero losers yesterday. I didn't make as much money as you guys normally make in demo mode, but then again, I'm trading with Euro 100,000 and not 2 futures contracts which I believe is equivalent to Euro 240,000. I'm also using real money.

Roger, I think that YOU have the potential to give something "back" to society, especially in the way of helping traders. I also think that you should reevaluate your fee structure, because as someone else pointed out to me on here, there are some real scheisters that charge in the vicinity of what you charge. I'm 99,99% sure that you are NOT a scheister so I'm telling you this as a way to try to *distance* or differentiate yourself from the those other people. I also have a business and I understand development costs and employees, but I find it a remarkable coincidence that his/your monthly charges are about the same. "That" guy is a scheister to be avoided like the plague. I don't put his name in here because I don't want Big Mike to get threatened with legal action.

And I learned a long time ago, the adage "you get what you pay for" doesn't always apply, especially in the field of trading where there's too many dishonest people and too few honest people. I know of services that charge an arm and a leg one-time or monthly, but their service isn't worth an exploding 1977 Pinto. On the other hand, I also know a guy who runs a stock picking service who charges a very modest monthly fee. Without a doubt, someone who subscribes to his service will make this fee many times over every month. He trades his own account, is honest, everything is very transparent, he explains all the setups, and as a result, it's very difficult to hear anyone say anything bad about him on review websites. IMHO, this trader is definitely giving back.

Please accept my opinion as an opinion, and only that. I'm only offering suggestions. I'm not attacking anyone.
Best of Luck!

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  #172 (permalink)
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acbrasil View Post
Roger, I have to say thanks. Due to you, I'm back to being profitable trading 1 round lot. I had been "on the fence" about your service for a few days. I kept thinking that your stuff is better and that even though I already love to trade divergences, maybe I could learn a whole lot from you. So I wasn't doing a whole lot of personal trading. Then I opened the email I received after the webinar and I saw the pricing. I almost passed out. When I told my wife, she said "Unless someone has a lot of money, they will have no money left to trade with after buying the course, software, and indicators!"

So after I picked myself up off the floor from passing out-- I put it in my head that I have to make MY OWN little charts in mt4 work. And they have been working. I had zero losers yesterday. I didn't make as much money as you guys normally make in demo mode, but then again, I'm trading with Euro 100,000 and not 2 futures contracts which I believe is equivalent to Euro 240,000. I'm also using real money.

Roger, I think that YOU have the potential to give something "back" to society, especially in the way of helping traders. I also think that you should reevaluate your fee structure, because as someone else pointed out to me on here, there are some real scheisters that charge in the vicinity of what you charge. I'm 99,99% sure that you are NOT a scheister so I'm telling you this as a way to try to *distance* or differentiate yourself from the those other people. I also have a business and I understand development costs and employees, but I find it a remarkable coincidence that his/your monthly charges are about the same. "That" guy is a scheister to be avoided like the plague. I don't put his name in here because I don't want Big Mike to get threatened with legal action.

And I learned a long time ago, the adage "you get what you pay for" doesn't always apply, especially in the field of trading where there's too many dishonest people and too few honest people. I know of services that charge an arm and a leg one-time or monthly, but their service isn't worth an exploding 1977 Pinto. On the other hand, I also know a guy who runs a stock picking service who charges a very modest monthly fee. Without a doubt, someone who subscribes to his service will make this fee many times over every month. He trades his own account, is honest, everything is very transparent, he explains all the setups, and as a result, it's very difficult to hear anyone say anything bad about him on review websites. IMHO, this trader is definitely giving back.

Please accept my opinion as an opinion, and only that. I'm only offering suggestions. I'm not attacking anyone.
Best of Luck!

AC, I not only accept your opinion, I also welcome and respect it. You do bring up some interesting points. I think a lot of traders have recognized that this industry is infested with vultures that advertise dreams and sell misery. But let's take your honest stock picker guy as an example of the other side of the coin.

He currently does his research and crunches the data and then dishes out his winning picks to his subscribers for a modest monthly fee. Let's assume that fee is $100 per month...$1200 per year. In 3 years you would have paid out about the same amount that many honest and effective educators charge, except you still wouldn't know anything about how to pick winning stocks.

Now suppose this guy decides that he doesn't want to throw his fish out the window anymore but wants to teach his followers how to fish for themselves. Knowing that his steady income stream will cease to exist, what price does he charge knowing that it's all he'll ever receive in return for his time and knowledge? Keep in mind that he probably has a staff to feed and ongoing operation costs such as a web administrator, advertising plus the expense of maintaining a Trading Room to teach in a live market.

Like any other business, the guy would have to determine a reasonable price point for his service. He'll have to factor in that he will now have to give up many of his evenings and weekends if he is to properly support his "students". If he offers any software to help his followers learn better or pick better stocks, now he has another humongous ongoing expense unless he happens to be a coder. I've invested over $600,000 so far and rising daily, as an example.

He will need to get the word out about what he offers and be prepared to be called every vile name in the book even though his students are quite happy with him. If he does tradeshows, good luck. My last one cost over $40,000.

Finally, even if he prices his service at near break even, he'll still have traders getting sticker shock. I think I'm qualified to speak on that since I've been teaching for many years and still haven't reached the break even point yet.

Thanks for the input AC...and I'm delighted that you're finding my indicators and assistance to be of value.

Roger


Last edited by rogerf; October 19th, 2011 at 08:57 AM. Reason: typo
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  #173 (permalink)
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Roger, did u set out to donate, to the endeavor. Or was it like my trading started out a business and became a hobby?

Hope u are making money on this thing, since the country needs the money..
Why would anyone go from being a "successful trader" with all the benefits and no responsibilities ,,, to having employees, dealing with the public, ordinary income, record keeping/reconciliation/accountants, paying quarterly income taxes, fica etc ????

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  #174 (permalink)
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gg80108 View Post
Roger, did u set out to donate, to the endeavor. Or was it like my trading started out a business and became a hobby?

Hope u are making money on this thing, since the country needs the money..
Why would anyone go from being a "successful trader" with all the benefits and no responsibilities ,,, to having employees, dealing with the public, ordinary income, record keeping/reconciliation/accountants, paying quarterly income taxes, fica etc ????

That's a question that comes up often. I've owned and run businesses every day for the past 30 years so that's nothing new. If I had to deal with problems, I probably would just prefer to trade. I have zero employee issues. They're the best. I never have to deal with accountants, payroll, FICA, etc. as I have people that do that for me. The business runs itself. But, what are the benefits?

The first benefit I found in teaching is I could do it and not have it affect my trading time. Speaking of trading, did you realize that, when you teach something you naturally get better at it? It's true....and what's that worth to a trader?

I always found pure trading to be a lonely profession. Actually to the point of being boring sometimes. But now I have good friends in almost every civilized country on the planet and we keep in constant contact. I enjoy that immensely. I also learn from them things that would have taken me decades to learn on my own. I share that knowledge with others.... a little of it here in futures.io (formerly BMT).

Teaching caused me to seek out extremely talented trader/programmers to create software tools that would vastly speed up the learning curve for my group. I had not anticipated how much easier it made my personal trading decisions, too. I might never have pursued that if it weren't for my responsibility to provide them with the best tools possible.

Besides helping traders, making a lot of friends and providing a living for my crew, I hadn't expected any joy beyond that. It's been a very pleasnt surprise and I'll be doing it as long as I can talk and move a mouse.

There are people...like Big Mike, for instance...who just enjoy helping people succeed. There are people who have no desire to help anyone if it involves any effort on their part. It's often difficult for one group to understand the thinking of the other.

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  #175 (permalink)
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roger, you do not need to respond, if you do not wish to, ok?

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rogerf View Post
That's a question that comes up often. I've owned and run businesses every day for the past 30 years so that's nothing new. If I had to deal with problems, I probably would just prefer to trade. I have zero employee issues. They're the best. I never have to deal with accountants, payroll, FICA, etc. as I have people that do that for me. The business runs itself. But, what are the benefits?

The first benefit I found in teaching is I could do it and not have it affect my trading time. Speaking of trading, did you realize that, when you teach something you naturally get better at it? It's true....and what's that worth to a trader?

I always found pure trading to be a lonely profession. Actually to the point of being boring sometimes. But now I have good friends in almost every civilized country on the planet and we keep in constant contact. I enjoy that immensely. I also learn from them things that would have taken me decades to learn on my own. I share that knowledge with others.... a little of it here in futures.io (formerly BMT).

Teaching caused me to seek out extremely talented trader/programmers to create software tools that would vastly speed up the learning curve for my group. I had not anticipated how much easier it made my personal trading decisions, too. I might never have pursued that if it weren't for my responsibility to provide them with the best tools possible.

Besides helping traders, making a lot of friends and providing a living for my crew, I hadn't expected any joy beyond that. It's been a very pleasnt surprise and I'll be doing it as long as I can talk and move a mouse.

There are people...like Big Mike, for instance...who just enjoy helping people succeed. There are people who have no desire to help anyone if it involves any effort on their part. It's often difficult for one group to understand the thinking of the other.



Quoting rogerf
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That's a question that comes up often. I've owned and run businesses every day for the past 30 years so that's nothing new. If I had to deal with problems, I probably would just prefer to trade. I have zero employee issues. They're the best. I never have to deal with accountants, payroll, FICA, etc. as I have people that do that for me. The business runs itself. But, what are the benefits?....


hi again roger;

your last response compels me to ask you further--specifically concerning what you wrote about your ownership of biz for the last 30 yrs.... about yourself and the biz you owned or used to own, but which your personal description appears to be so far detached from the present reality of running biz and/or international biz.

1--roger, i am somewhat bewildered just how does a wealthy bizman have no biz problem?

how does a bizman have a team of ceo but have no problem?
what exactly is the nature of the biz in this world that does not come with problem of one kind or another, particularly human resources problem?

do we realize that even if we only have two employee, there are inherent two problems already?

perhaps, you ought to confine your claim to fame and fortune to only CURRENT trading which i can personally say that with your current trading setups and from what i could gather from being in your trading room thrice.... that during the three sessions, you could call the trade....

but then unfortunately, as long as any trader wishing to acclaim to be a trading master or trading teacher, but is not willing and not ready to put real own money on the table.... he/she will only remain a wannabe, regardless of how enticing and believable the person's verbiage contains....

especially, when you are only trading two contracts at a time in your teaching room, there is no special reason at all in most traders' mind as to why you are not trading for real money.... and this was exactly one of the questions that came to my own mind while in your trading room.

coming back to the specific questions arisen out of your responses:

2--..... I've owned and run businesses every day for the past 30 years....

which biz that you own or used to own that does not contain personnel and biz problems, pls?

unfortunately for me, every biz i ever owned comes with ton of problems. and on top of those, everyday the problems present themselves in different shapes and forms. even in biz like floor coverings, if you ever engaged in one, it also came with multitude of problems as well, don't you agree?

3--....I have zero employee issues. They're the best. I never have to deal with accountants, payroll, FICA, etc. as I have people that do that for me. The business runs itself....

roger, what are you trying to tell us here, pls? you sounded very much like a philosopher and a walter mitty genius.... definitely not like a bizman.... your deliberation on owning a biz or bizs and there is no biz problem.... sounds much more like a dream for monday night quarterbacks, really. but then again, i could be equally incorrect as well. however, pls do help us to understand a little more, if you wish.

4--....
which roger would you like your trading comrades on bmt to believe in;

4.1 .... roger the successful bizman who run a bunch of biz with the best team to take care of all biz problems....? and that the biz runs itself....? and/or

4.2 .... roger the successful trading guru who practically trades every day from 9 to 11 in his own trading classroom with many paid students, trading 2 contracts at a time.... and preferring sim to 5k real money.... to demonstrate and to provide certain respects of concrete proof to his own students that roger is able to take the beast by the horns practically every session?

roger, personally, i do believe with those setups that i saw while in your trading room, that you are able to prove to your own followers in your own trading room that you can surely fulfill the axiom--SHOW ME THE MONEY....

i humbly apologize to everyone for my long winded questions for roger, if he so wishes to, to elaborate a little further and to show us the money for trading sake. and i am asking those questions with all due respect and high esteem for what he and his have kindly offered to members of bm here. thx much, roger, with much appreciation.

profitable trading everyone and do have a wonderful weekend with your significant others too.
-----------------
5--i am reluctant to bring on my last question, however, with much contemplation..... and for the fact that i really have no ill intent or malice against any one who claims proprietorial to any trading contraption or setup or theory or whatever; perhaps, i'll just show each piece of the acclaims here for the general benefits of bm trading community to perhaps contemplate--what is or who is or who is not the real mccoy.... K?

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Last edited by nakachalet; November 5th, 2011 at 05:06 AM. Reason: forgetting the attachments due to old age
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  #176 (permalink)
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Live Trading Room Recap shows very good results...so you have a live trading room with 2 traders? (roger and clint)...how to join?

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  #177 (permalink)
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in all fairness

I doubt that this thread was meant to criticize Roger because he sells very expensive ninjatrade indicators. About his business, he is just being a positive businessman. I also have a business (unrealted business) and until now, all of the problems are small and not even worth mentioning.

So no point in criticizing him. Divergences work if used properly. If you don't believe me, go the OTHER WAY on the trade.

I'm not a student of Roger's, nor have I ever been.

Oh yeah, something else: I know he demo trades in front of other people, and I know WHY he does that, because there are many distractions. But demo trading and live trading are completely different animals. In demo, the emotions are just not the same, even if you have 50 people watching. Put your money on the line AND have 50 people watching is the REAL test for any successful trade. My 2 cents.


Last edited by acbrasil; November 5th, 2011 at 07:38 AM. Reason: wanted to add more info...
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  #178 (permalink)
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futurestrader1 View Post
Live Trading Room Recap shows very good results...so you have a live trading room with 2 traders? (roger and clint)...how to join?

to join?

simple. just go to his website as advertised and fill out a short form. bev would send you a confirmation to enjoy his trading room. enjoy and relax, roger will come on a couple of hours before noon for about two hours, k?

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  #179 (permalink)
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acbrasil View Post
I doubt that this thread was meant to criticize Roger because he sells very expensive ninjatrade indicators. About his business, he is just being a positive businessman. I also have a business (unrealted business) and until now, all of the problems are small and not even worth mentioning.

So no point in criticizing him. Divergences work if used properly. If you don't believe me, go the OTHER WAY on the trade.

I'm not a student of Roger's, nor have I ever been.

Oh yeah, something else: I know he demo trades in front of other people, and I know WHY he does that, because there are many distractions. But demo trading and live trading are completely different animals. In demo, the emotions are just not the same, even if you have 50 people watching. Put your money on the line AND have 50 people watching is the REAL test for any successful trade. My 2 cents.

You're absolutely right AC, sim trading and live trading are different from the emotional standpoint...to the trader sitting at home. But, when you're a moderator, it's different, too. The 50 people or so are not just watching you, they're judging you, and that's where the difference lies. When I take a trade and it loses, I couldn't care less. It's one of thousands I've taken and one of thousands I'll take in the future. The outcome of any single trade means zilch as long as I've managed it correctly. Statistically, it's insignificant in the big picture.

But when I trade (live or sim) and people...my friends... are depending on my judgment and are sometimes taking trades with me, that adds an element of emotional pressure that far exceeds that of simply trading a live account. If you're selling snake oil, you will consistently lose and so will they. They will dispise you and they'll tell the world about you in every forum and chat room they can find. So there's pressure for sure to perform and it makes no difference whether it's live or sim.

Now, whether you trade live account or sim, if you are a professional trader, the outcome of each trade will be the same (within reason) if the system is totally mechanical. In simulation, I can still take trades even when the market condition falls below what I demand in my personal live trading. Demonstrating what happens on weak trades to the group...plus what happens when mistakes are made...provide valuable lessons that trading a live account would not.

Some moderators do trade live accounts when moderating...or say they are (it can easily be faked). It is fun to watch anyone making real money profits. But it adds nothing to the success rate of their followers. Confidence can't be taught...nor can emotional control. Those things must be developed through time and practice. If you ever find a moderator trading their live account and the attendees are making money hand over fist, be sure to let me know.

I've tried it both ways and the way I run the Trading Room is by far the most effective for my group. Judging a trading system on the basis of sim vs. live is the wrong mindset in that it only proves that the moderator has mastered their human fears. That mastery does not auto-transfer to you!! Judge any trading system of interest to you by how the system performs...not the moderator. Never buy any system you don't understand. If you can't understand what he's doing and he won't tell you, you'd do well to pass.

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  #180 (permalink)
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hi again roger;

your last response compels me to ask you further--specifically concerning what you wrote about your ownership of biz for the last 30 yrs.... about yourself and the biz you owned or used to own, but which your personal description appears to be so far detached from the present reality of running biz and/or international biz.

1--roger, i am somewhat bewildered just how does a wealthy bizman have no biz problem?

It's probably uncommon but it does happen. Felton Trading is a good example. Everyone knows their job and they do it well. We have no quotas to fill. Our single goal is to make sure that every student is given the best possible training, support, software and mentorship necessary to succeed.

how does a bizman have a team of ceo but have no problem?

Every aspect of this business is handled by someone more capable than myself...and I'm quite capable. I am left to do what I love...trade and teach. When you hire professionals who take pride in what they do and perform far above expectations, you shouldn't have many problems.

what exactly is the nature of the biz in this world that does not come with problem of one kind or another, particularly human resources problem?

If you are struggling with Human Resource issues, you should look closely at your hiring practices. Perhaps they need a complete overhaul.

do we realize that even if we only have two employee, there are inherent two problems already?

I don't think you should enter into any business and look at your employees as problems. If they are, perhaps your hiring skills need honing.

perhaps, you ought to confine your claim to fame and fortune to only CURRENT trading which i can personally say that with your current trading setups and from what i could gather from being in your trading room thrice.... that during the three sessions, you could call the trade....

Excuse me? Are we still talking about my business experience? Those who know me know I make no claims to fame or fortune. That is arrogance and that is a character flaw. I'm just a successful trader in that I reach my personal trading goals consistently. I'm also an effective teacher and mentor. People can be good at what they do and not be arrogant about it.

but then unfortunately, as long as any trader wishing to acclaim to be a trading master or trading teacher, but is not willing and not ready to put real own money on the table.... he/she will only remain a wannabe, regardless of how enticing and believable the person's verbiage contains....especially, when you are only trading two contracts at a time in your teaching room, there is no special reason at all in most traders' mind as to why you are not trading for real money.... and this was exactly one of the questions that came to my own mind while in your trading room.

Interesting point of view and was addressed in a recent post for AC. Trading my live account might be entertaining but entertaining is not the purpose of the Trading Room. It's to demonstrate every aspect of trading. How to identify great trade opportunities...how to manage them...how to recognize weak trades and market conditions. Who in their right mind would trade their live account to demonstrate what happens in bad market characteristics? Or to keep trading once the goal has been reached and market conditions have deteriorated. That would be crazy. But, in sim, I can and students learn from watching the trades and how I manage them...even the losers.

If I could magically transfer my mastery of emotions simply by trading live, I certainly would. There would be a definite benefit. Unfortunately, watching someone make money accomplishes nothing. Overcoming the psychological barriers takes time and lots of practice to build a rock solid level of confidence. Without that, you'll soon be breaking your rules. If you wish to simply be entertained, there are a number of gurus I hear that trade their live accounts...but it does nothing for the success rate of the group.



coming back to the specific questions arisen out of your responses:

2--..... I've owned and run businesses every day for the past 30 years....

which biz that you own or used to own that does not contain personnel and biz problems, pls?

Felton Trading

unfortunately for me, every biz i ever owned comes with ton of problems. and on top of those, everyday the problems present themselves in different shapes and forms. even in biz like floor coverings, if you ever engaged in one, it also came with multitude of problems as well, don't you agree?

It appears that you have really struggled in several areas in your business endeveors. Instead of getting angry at me, I would suggest that you consider taking some business courses online or at a local community college, if possible. Pay particular attention to any course on effective hiring as that appears to be one of your weakest areas.


3--....I have zero employee issues. They're the best. I never have to deal with accountants, payroll, FICA, etc. as I have people that do that for me. The business runs itself....

roger, what are you trying to tell us here, pls?

That was a direct response to a specific question. The answer was clear, I thought.

you sounded very much like a philosopher and a walter mitty genius.... definitely not like a bizman.... your deliberation on owning a biz or bizs and there is no biz problem.... sounds much more like a dream for monday night quarterbacks, really. but then again, i could be equally incorrect as well. however, pls do help us to understand a little more, if you wish.

4--....which roger would you like your trading comrades on bmt to believe in;

4.1 .... roger the successful bizman who run a bunch of biz with the best team to take care of all biz problems....? and that the biz runs itself....? and/or

4.2 .... roger the successful trading guru who practically trades every day from 9 to 11 in his own trading classroom with many paid students, trading 2 contracts at a time.... and preferring sim to 5k real money.... to demonstrate and to provide certain respects of concrete proof to his own students that roger is able to take the beast by the horns practically every session?

I would highly discourage anyone choosing Felton Trading because of my past business experience. That has nothing to do with what they want me to do for them.

Again, my personal success is somewhat irrelevant. I developed the method and have been trading it every day through it's evolution for 14 years. Of course I'm going to be good at it.

But I humbly request that you ask yourself a very important question: Is it more important for you to witness my success or the success of my students? I ask this because it appears you have been more focused on what mode I was trading in than what was actually happening in the group. Outside of my personal trading...and I do consider it personal...everything else I do (as well as every team member) is solely devoted to student success. My score means nothing if they aren't getting it.

roger, personally, i do believe with those setups that i saw while in your trading room, that you are able to prove to your own followers in your own trading room that you can surely fulfill the axiom--SHOW ME THE MONEY....

Showing anyone the money without showing them how it was made would be pointless. One thing I've learned in this business is "Live Account Believers" can never be convinced that the exercise is meaningless. It's their last bastion of hope. They bought into seeing historical results and failed. They bought into seeing where supposed trades occurred on a given day...and that failed. Now, somehow they have convinced themselves that, if they could just watch a few live trades then their ship will have arrived. They will buy into that and fail once again. Then what will they demand?

Live account trading proves good psychological control...that's it...and it's non-transferrable. How much money do think you need to see before you are absolutely certain that your Human Emotions have been completely conquered simply by watching someone else make money? Honestly, if you believe that live account trading is your shortcut ticket to trading paradise, then Felton Trading is not for you. We're trainers, not entertainers. If you want to succeed, study the system and understand it. Learn from the pro pushing the buttons and ask questions. And watch how the followers are doing. And then ask yourself honestly if what you see and understand is something you could actually do.


i humbly apologize to everyone for my long winded questions for roger, if he so wishes to, to elaborate a little further and to show us the money for trading sake. and i am asking those questions with all due respect and high esteem for what he and his have kindly offered to members of bm here. thx much, roger, with much appreciation.

profitable trading everyone and do have a wonderful weekend with your significant others too.
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5--i am reluctant to bring on my last question, however, with much contemplation..... and for the fact that i really have no ill intent or malice against any one who claims proprietorial to any trading contraption or setup or theory or whatever; perhaps, i'll just show each piece of the acclaims here for the general benefits of bm trading community to perhaps contemplate--what is or who is or who is not the real mccoy.... K

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