Well, well, well... to all forum members post count does not equal credibility (wow is that an average of 9 posts per day in past year only???). I was merely 'adding value' by extolling the virtues of the nexgen system, which you rightly agreed to. They are, wonderful rules, great Fib S&R levels, and super good teaching/support. All of which you seem to conceed. That pretty much proves my point. Thanks for that.
As for how much it costs. Firstly, I know 18 people that purchased the software and not one paid the "rack rate" of 16.5k. So, as you can see, it takes just a tiny bit of savvy to get a huge discount on the price. Secondly, the time and effort to develop a proper set of rules and then somehow get it tested more than makes up for the price (given you even had these skills/capabilities to begin with). You may be snickering, that is, as you certainly believe you could figure this out on your own and you can find all these indicators online (or can even develop your own). Well, thats not the case for most folks, I guarantee you, so youre the exception rather than the rule. But, that just brings me to my next point.
How much "value" there is and how much something costs, as well as whether it is expensive or cheap, is entirely relative. If we could even establish a large enough representative sample of respondents to the question "is nexgen valuable and/or worth the money?" you may (or may not) get the conclusion you believe to be fact. However, that very sample itself would have a wide variance of responses and some would doubtless feel it is great and some would think its so-so, and still others, might think it a waste. The point is, the only "mistake" here is you asserting your own subjective criteria to my analysis that the characteristics of the nexgen software are good and useful (which you seemed to second).
The only exception you take is two-fold. One, that I used the word science. Essentially, being able to determine with very limited variation exactly which bar one should enter on for the ideal trade is what I call precision. Precision has its roots in science. What is science other than some rules that are provable over a sufficiently representative sample? I am offended that you think my assertion is incorrect, and it just goes to show your bias. Yes, Forex is a game, but, if anything, its against yourself, there is ABSOLUTELY NO way, much less scientific way, to figure out the "behavior of your opponents". This is the least important aspect of Forex trading in my opinion. And for you to declare otherwise, is heretical in my mind, or at very least, misinformed. The only thing(s) in Forex that matter are, rules for entry/exit, trading plan, proper leverage/money management (includes stop losses, risk/reward, etc..) and perhaps a diary. How could I even go about figuring out what fund X is doing , and what Bank Y is doing, and what super-mega tader Z are doing? Absurd.
Second, you said nexgen is overpriced by a factor of ten, or even 20. Well, thats your biased, subjective analysis...again. I think for what it brought to me and how its made me profitable in my forex trading carreer I would have gladly paid twice as much. Where I live in the world, luxury vehicles are 100%+ more than they are in American (for example). Do you think no one buys Mercedes-Benz or BMW in this case? NO!!! In fact, luxury vehicle penetration is probably highest per capita here than virtually any place on the planet. Do not preach to me about this when it appears from your comments "you know the price of everything, yet the value of nothing". Another example is, I am involved in a business where our service is very pricy (by the average person's appraisal). So, many prospective clients try to do it themselves, only to waste days, weeks even months of their precious time as well as a lot of excess cash trying to figure out how to do it "cheaply", only in the end, to find out they could have done it quickly and conveniently for the "premium" price. Its all relative and your opinion holds no water in my mind. So, I think, while my post count implies lack of credibility, my real-life and trading experience utterly rebutts what you say.
All due respect. Happy trading. And hopefully, Always Adding Value (AAV) to all.
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I think we actually agree on quite a number of points. We both think that the Nexgen concept is a serious approach to trading. We may disagree on an appropriate pricing for the Nexgen software, and there is nothing wrong about it. Value is relative, there is no absolute value, so your perception may well be different from mine.
Where we mostly disagree is, whether this is a scientific approach to trading. I do not think that it qualifies as scientific for several reasons
-> it assumes that future price is mainly based on past prices
-> it uses just a simple set of price based indicators
So if you ignore fundamentals, intermarket relationships, and just look at feedback loops generated by price, this has nothing to do with science. Markets change as evolution has shaped fauna and flora on the earth. New predators may appear and exploit existing strategies, so any type of analysis of feedback will only gain you a temporary edge.
Feedback is nothing than the way other market participants reacts to price. The Nexgen concept exclusively relies on feedback and may work as long as the feedback pattern do no change. Figuring out what others are doing is the key to success in trading. It not absurd. Price is sort of a trace left by other traders, we just try to read and interpret the traces by using technical analysis. But there are other ways figuring out, what your opponents in the game are doing. For example, the Nexgen - technical analysis based - approach will not tell you how many carry traders are caught on the wrong foot, when the yen starts moving.
Development of trading systems may have some elements of science, as a valid approach requires
- a set of fixed rules
- backtesting those rules against the current behavior of market participants
- performing further statistical analysis
- monitoring results and improving the system
Nexgen can at best have used scientific methods by empirically testing the rules. But so far I have not seen a single backtest or evaluation of their concept. This would certainly add credibility.
What I am currently seeing is an expensive marketing machine, and I believe that customers mostly pay for the marketing. But then beliefs are subjective.
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Fat Tails, your point is received and all due respect as always.
I am only here for one thing. Not to defend nexgen, but instead to somehow unite the nexgen members in one place so as to avail ourselves of a common approach to trading. I feel that sharing our opinions while using the same indicators could result in the ideal trading room/group. I have a private trade room and I invite anyone to come in an share resources, ideas, information and expertise (and receive the same) from a community of like-minded and similarly equipped traders.
You know, what I dislike most about your responses (and your attitude), is that you come to blow smoke why W is bad, and that X is this way, and Y is expensive/useless, and, oh by the way, you don't understand Z (which is the key!).
This is the THE most undesirable, yet most common, conduct in the entire FX world. So-and-so expert veteran tells the newbs why they are dumb, and what they dont know, and how they "dont get it". It as old as the hills. Its what turns me off about this industry. I have traded since the internet bubble. At that time it was stocks. Since then, the advent of broadband, ubuiqitous internet, leverage and low cost trading, not to mention uber-liquidity, made currencies the call. Why not trade 8 pairs (not 5,000 stocks) that are more liquid than the entire NYSE, and on leverage at super low cost??? Its the only game in town.
I've been fortunate as I have a bit of resource, knowledge and now, a ton of real, live trading experience. I have put in my "10,000" hours and I have made more trades than I could ever count. I know what the "keys" are and what is possible and impossible. I just don't like to have someone come on and tell me I don't know this, and what that means, and how this is useless, and how that is the only way to go. Get real. This is a bad attitude and doesn't help anyone. What a trader needs is, others who have the resource, knowledge and experience to train him/her up properly so that he/she may help the mentor/leader/head trader/more experienced guy/gal also spot the good trades when they invariably appear! This is all we want.
I am doing this. I think. In my own trading room. Which is free. I have nexgen. I also have a dozen other systems I purchased (some more expensive and some less than nexgen) over the last decade. Yea, believe me, Ive paid my dues. And I make my living from Forex.
So, Fat Tail, while I DO NOT doubt you are an intelligent, savvy, experienced trader you do ZERO good for yourself, the industry or anyone else by telling this forum that others dont know what the keys are and that we are stupid or clueless for this reason or that (thats the tacit conclusion). So, I say, come and show us what is real and good and let us learn. If it must be for money or a tuition fee so be it. But, ill tell you, I have seen countless folks that act like you act (not making judgements or conclusions), and they, typically, are the shovel sellers and make their cash via selling something or making pips as an IB.
Lets be cool to one another, add value and create a long-lasting super community of real people who are successful by helping each other and sharing.
I know that in my own way, I keep an open mind, I don't mock others approach because there are 10,000 good ways to trade, and I always add value because I have a ton of experience. I am not infallible, thats why I need help from others. Perhaps like, or unlike, you.
This all being said, I am positive as a man can be. Send me PMs lets meet on the net, ill contribute, and offer what I know to help create an environment that is mutually beneficial. Cheers to all. happy trading.
Just attack the person, when you have no more arguments to defend the cause?
Again, you are not on the right track here. You have probably not read my posts, if you are comparing me to "shovel sellers" and IBs. As opposed to you, I have contributed a lot to this forum, including around 70 free indicators and various approaches to trading. So your post is a bit arrogant, as you have contributed little.
My only point was that Nexgen - although a valuable approach to trading - is overpriced. I maintain this position. If this hurts you, because, as I understand, you have already paid for it, let it be. But no need to attack me personally because of this opinion.
I could have written that as well. Why not share your trading experience here on the forum?
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We'll getya to 3,000 posts before the end of the week. Don't you worry.
Naw, I don't attack you, you exposed yourself for what you are.
Not offended, as you said yourself, "Nexgen is a valuable approach to trading". I feel its precision, rules-based approach and highly effective S&R/Fib levels rock, and the support/teaching are all second to none. Worth every penny.
I merely came to state the claim that Nexgen is worthy and valuable. Nothing more. I was just surprised that you popped in saying I was "mistaken" and that you felt I "didn't understand". Orly! No, sir, that's arrogant. Again, post count means zero.
I contribute to live traders every day. I have my own private trading room, which is free, and it has proven to be highly effective when 5, 10, 15 or more traders who have a similar understanding and strategy get together the results are fantastic. And isn't that what we're really here for? Results? It appears thats what your retorts lack/ignore.
I make wins, I make losses. I know in the balance of 1,000 trades I can get AT LEAST get 55% to 65% winners FOR SURE and with proper money management that ='s MAKE MONEY. Its just fact. But, I am sure you do much better good buddy Fat Tail.
If any one has nexgen on Big Mike's and wants to spend time enjoying the company of like-minded individuals probing the market (typically spot for me i.e. eu, gu, ej ..et al) for entries/opportunities based on specific rules then please, by all means, give me a PM. Free, and love contribution/value.
And no thanks Fat Tail, I got all the indi's i'll ever need as I spent years finding what I believe really works (albeit, not the only system that works ) . I am sure the esteemed members of this forum appreciate what you've given them. I've also got my own blog with many an article documenting my travails and I'm certain my tiny gaggle of devotees can glean a tidbit or two as well.
No more discussion, as stimulating as it may be, we've got trading to do, and the weekend is for rest. Cheers. Happy trading to all.
Leverage in futures seduces and invites dreams of the big life. The fantasy of every new trader is that there is a rational, scientific - translate emotionless -way to take lots of money from the market . The problem for most is that their accounts are way too small and/or too precious to trade them with mechanical (or scientific) indifference to losses.
Reality check. Years ago I remember talking with an IB and asking them why they did not have online facility to move money in and out of an account. In an unguarded moment he confessed, virtually nobody makes any money. People come in with too little money to make a real go of it.
Sim trading is easy because you don't care. Until you can reasonably deal with making/losing money with the same indifference = there is no technology that can make you long term successful.
If you had no mortgage, no car loans , nobody else to support - could you live off of $100,000? Probably not for long. It is hard to imagine how you could trade and expect to thrive on an account of any less. That is the proverbial 800lb gorilla that trading trainers or anyone else in the industry want to talk about.
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I own Nexgen and after seeing bigmiketrading.com , I can say with confidence that I paid 10 times more. Again Nexgen offered free upgrades and what they did with these improvements of "revolution"... they scammed everybody....AGAIN.. Well I am here to get help from successful traders like cory, fat tail to make trading successful.
As Fat Tails mentionned the framework makes sense and is a good starting platform for someone new to trading but the price of admission is too high. I remember having asked the trainer named Jeremy during a trial period if he was trading for himself even part time and he replied no. He was a good teacher but he had never traded for real or made a living out of it. I think it counts when comes the time to evaluate a system. In the same league and probably even better and cheaper is trading the Jam way. Their indicators are somewhat similar but more comprehensive and with better training. Jam is an ex student of Nexgen. I think he saw the limitation of NexGen's platform and training and probably wanted to go a step further. That's my understanding, i may be wrong.
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Seriously, I bought the T3 Fib Pro Trader many years ago. I have a love hate relationship with them. Some days they helped me make a small fortune, then days later give it all back. I started getting confused as the entry rules started to change a bit, then some setups were so vague I could not find them. Reasonable stops became huge stops.
Recently they have the Revolution. I got the upgrade but did not get the automated signal generator. The charts are a lot cleaner, easier to see. Unfortunetly it does not help.
IMHO you have to have a sustained trend. You cannot scalp with them consistently enough to be succesful. But if you just wait until a sustained trend is on the way, then you have a chance. You have to put in thousands of hours of screen time to learn them, and they are still expensive.
So, what is the percentage the market actually trends a sustained move? on an intra day basis? That is about as effective as you have the "potential" of sustained profits...maybe...on sundays....in summer....after a rain storm....
But you know, I paid so much for them....they just have to work...or maybe it's just me....sigh...
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