How do you know he traded real money and not on sim? If he is trading real money, I wonder why he would not show his DOM. That's really strange. Why hide it? Why show winners after the fact?
Bill's method seems to be based more on intuition. The way he was teaching it was not working as no one was able to do it, even the guys who were in there for a year. It's basically a question of faith - if you scalp it this way every day you'll eventually get it. or not. I wasn't prepared to spend a year finding out. He could never say why he entered or didn't enter, it was always "I didn't like the bars" or "you got to RTB" (read the bars). But this RTB can't be explained. And if it can't be explained, I don't think it can be taught.
It's funny that I spent so much time trying different methods and such and in the end what works for me, and what I believe is the only thing that works, is simple support & resistance. Buy support, sell resistance, and know quickly when you're wrong. It's really that simple. Yet all these indicators and systems make it out to be so complicated.
can someone refresh my memory on bill's targets & stops. I believe he was using 3,4,5,5 for targets and for stop I do not remember maybe 5,5,5,5.
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bill or any other person out there charging for his/her trading service, should try to make a living from their skills in the 1st place rather than charging for rooms. whats wrong with this basic demand. he charges an astronomical fee for his room. Even former students who failed to get it, need to pay. why? i dont pay for thetradingzone or tgtradergirl. i can get in there anytime i want. its just nonsense to try and make money from other who r suffering to get up to speed with trading skills. whats wrong with that?
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Unfortunately these vendors supply a knowledge product that certain people demand . Even though the demand is for knowledge that cant be taught in a classical classroom setting , if it can be taught at all , the vendors still provide knowledge , for a fee . The question you ask here is as old as the hills and will be asked for eternity .
hey guys I do not want to sound negative in any way about these two guys, I was just chiming in on the thread based on my experience.
my personal reality is that I had been trading baskets of currencies via StateStreet since early 2000 and was looking to get away from them when Citigroup took over. Citi f'ed with a solid working platform and turned it into a horrible jumble of programs that were buggy and unreliable. I got burned badly due to connection failures, etc.
futures had always been appealing to me and I heard about Roy Kelly first, found Roy Kelly on hotcomm.
the hotcomm software had a similar bug to the cisco software out there, so I could lurk anywhere I wanted on hotcomm without being detected for a long time. I watched dozens of different traders over the next few months, found Dr. Bill McDowell.
basically if you are new, neither guy would be bad, especially compared to what is out there.
that being said, futures.io (formerly BMT) is excellent and you can go far with the resources here.
glad to have found futures.io (formerly BMT)
hope that helps,
3,4,5 with 4,5,5 stop doesn't make sense to me. One needs over 58% win rate just to break even. To make money at this, one would need 75% win rate or more. My experience is that strategies which require a 75% win rate do not work well. Especially with the current volatility.
In my trading, I go for at least a 2:1 ratio on my first scale and I like my second scale to be 3:1 or better. So I can be right < 50% of the time. I take a few (0-4) trades/session. This is what works for me.
For resources in learning support & resistance: There are two methods: Price based S&R (yday's high & low for example), and volum profiling (yesterday's HVN & LVN). I wrote a blog page with links to resources which is geared towards new traders but still useful for those with experience:
There are many ways to trade. Sometimes I take trades opposite of some colleagues. But we all make money in the end. So everyone has to find what works for them. If scalping for 5 ticks is working for someone then that's great. If it's not then try looking at something different.
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Took Bill's program on early 2011. Did basic (6E and TF) program and CL program as well. Bill is very commited to his room and students. His methodology, although very difficult to master, is very sound and solid. he shows his trades all the time in the CL room. At that time there were a handful of students both experienced and novices, like me. All the experienced ones contacted showed his trades and his versions of the methodology. All very open to help.
The only thing I would desire is his videos to be shorter. More than a 100 of videos are available and most of them are more than 2hrs long.
His weekly class for new students attending the room is awesome. Bill is an awesome trader and he probes it everyday in the room.
Unfortunately for me I was really unexperienced at that time. Meaning too new. Of course I blew my account when I went life with the TF. My one and enterely fault.
Would wish to have taken his mentorship later with a little more reading and study, like now.
This site has been a blessing for me and as i have stated publicly to Big Mike. I have passed hundreds of quality hours on the last year enjoying the learning and the companion ship of alll here.
As per Mc Dowell I can only speak well of him. A gentleman and a terrific trader. Would have to say that he is a monster of a trader.
Maybe the notion spread by other vendors that you can make it in 60 days was the cause of my failure.
Mc Dowell, and many others, state that you need your 10K hours of study before hitting the jack pot.
Bill Mc Dowell is very sincere about that. But our wishful thinking, our superhero ego makes us believe that we can make it and kick Goldman Sacks traders in the buttocks with just 3 months of study. I have found a very few lucky ones that say, here, that they made it on a month. Good for them.
I have improved my knowledge with all the info here. have studied trading psichology as per BM insistence, I am walking up at 2am ET to attend the Euro session before going to my day job and I am opening my path.
There are very solid methodologies here. You just have to pick one and master it...over time.
Last edited by rainbowchaser; April 29th, 2012 at 08:29 AM.