u may want to revisit billsroom. he trades cl, gc and fdax now and on average, he takes around 50-70 trades on cl. however your expectations wont be meet even if u return to the room. he shows trades after the fact and never shows his DOM. the only real deal who shows trades in front of traders is simon from FUTURES fx and he charges much less for his system that bill.
i think part of bill's problem is that the few successful traders with his method uses other indicators and systems or widen his stoploss of 5 tics to 15 to allow trades room to develop,. Altough he sells his standard course for trading tf and 6e for 3000USD, no one has claimed consistently trading these two instruments with standard. Yet when he gives his webinars to prospective sheep willing to pay 3000, he claims my traders. Most of the those in the room are not successful. only one guy who lost his job and trades for 2 years fulltime, have claimed success. it is time sometime tells him that the majority of students are part of the 99% of failuers in the trading industry
what I have found so far about mentors Dr Bill McDowell and Simon Jousef CTA
I just REchecked both guys out the beginning of October 2011.
Simon at futuresfx dot ca is more $ up front, would be around $6600 for one year.
Dr. Bill McDowell would be around $6250 for one year, including the hotcomm license.
FWIW, if any others out there are considering taking one of these courses, I take the stance that I always perform my own due diligence, so here is a quick overview of my notes for both mentors to give you an idea of what I consider:
Bill McDowell (Bills Room)
Not a CTA, etc., but PhD in physics
Did not find a website for Bill McDowell (coincidentally named the same as another non-PhD trader).
Mentoring for more than five years.
Charges $3000US for standard mentoring on 6E and TF, $1500US for oil and gold mentoring, then $1000 per quarter thereafter if mentoring is still required, reduces to $750 per quarter if mentorship not needed.
After market close reviews (forgot to ask how many days per week), Saturday weekly review (sends out a recording if desired)
Saw his DOM when he was doing trades around 0600CST, he was doing sixteen contracts and when I asked him about it, he pointed out that it is the same
strategy he teaches, just four times the student contracts.
Looks legit, I just do not think he realizes that it is bigtime hard to do without indicators unless you are trading that way for years.
Minor criticisms: very professor-like, appears to be inconsistent on losers, but genuine interest in students
Simon www dot futuresfx dot ca
Registered CTA (four years registered)
Sloppy website and different domains raises red flags with me because it looks like it has been through various rehashing from other domain names, etc.
From their website:
The FuturesFX site that their lifetime membership is $6000US, then $49.00US thereafter
"Free copy" of their advances signal system (FuturesFx) $1,595.00 USD value
Another indicator called the G-Scalper Deluxe trader.
The G-Scalper Deluxe is available on its own for $2,995. USD
Another indicator called the A.C.E indicator
The baloney indicator pricing Simon Jousef shows on the futuresfx dot com site program listing turns me off bigtime.
Was able to reach Dr. Bill McDowell (billsroom) immediately by phone. Sounds very flexible and realistic about mentoring. Overall, it sounds like you will hold onto your training / mentorship $ longer with Dr. Bill McDowell, especially if you wait a month or so to do the oil and gold trading.
Considering it will take the average Joe six months of daily trading to be consistent anyway, it may be better to do the Dr. Bill McDowell course.
If others are interested, I will get more info on both and post again later, just PM me...
Big Mike rocks!
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I would strongly recommend avoiding any trading rooms where the trader does not show their DOM or orders real time. There are simply too many fakes out there. I know because I've been taken by several of them myself! In fact I'm not aware of a single room where the trader shows his DOM real time and is profitable. There is always a trick or something else to hide the real performance.
Personally, I think following a few profitable traders on twitter and asking them questions is the best way to learn to trade and it's 100% free. I know many profitable traders now and they're always willing to help others. It's amazing just how kind & generous they are. The guys who charge money for it are mostly crooks.
If you join one of these please let us know how it goes.
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This is how it was when I was in the room. The problem is you don't know about all the losers. You only find out about the winners. Bill would get real quiet and then either say "I decided not to take that one" or he'd say "here's what I got on that one". This wasn't helpful for me at all and I left.
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I would be careful too. It is a lot of money to spend. Both mentors trade multiple contracts and you can easily blow up an account quick that way. I bought Simon's course and I can say he is a great trader. He does show his dome. Does it mean you will make money? Doubtful. I didn't. Just because a mentor is a great trader doesn't mean he is a great teacher. All great players are not great coaches. I don't know if he is not clear or I can't understand his English, or the videos are not how he uses his method ,but I never felt comfortable enough using his method to even take a live trade! He has 6-7 charts open and Gomi ladders for each instrument. He hardly ever takes a trade off his indicators. Many times in the room he would take trades and I had no idea why he did. No reason according to his method. My advice save your money and pick a method here on futures.io (formerly BMT). There are many great ones offered through the kindness of the traders. Take the money you would have used for the course and make it your seed money for potential losses.
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Great advice below from the last poster!! Kudos, longboat!
"My advice save your money and pick a method here on futures.io (formerly BMT). There are many great ones offered through the kindness of the traders. Take the money you would have used for the course and make it your seed money for potential losses."
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My gut (and alot of forum posts and internet searches) says methinks McDowell is a no go for at least 95% of short-term intraday traders. Those are slim odds on the positive side.
I usually read the last 3 pages of a great method that someone here on futures.io (formerly BMT) generously takes time to provide and give continued feedback on; then (if 'I dig the vibe' and/or the method 'speaks to me and/or my psychology/trading style') I go BACK and read from page 1.
Also, I view any archived webinar (if available); then I suggest to get involved and join the discussion guys!
We can find stuff everyone can use if we all are committed. Doesn't take a 50K account either; many 'tight' methods can be traded with ultra-low risk and great MM and trade management AFTER entry.
I would just like to write to any intermediate or beginning or near-breakeven or breakeven or slighty-profitable traders; put down the measly $50.00 USD and become an elite member.
I like futures/commodities; however, I just sent this email to my trading parnter (in response to another group of market researchers who follow forex).
My preference is hyper-short term trading (when scaling deeply liquid instruments; it is all good)--his preference is short-to mid-term swingtrading (he is not of my 'video game' generation).
"Good forex swing methods are found (as you know) in
a) forums (forex factory, other forex forums--confirmed by REAL forex traders with an OPEN dialogue); usually the method costs less than $150 USD and/or are completely free.
b) big mike (you kind of create your own stuff with good indicators--a recipe you make your own)
c) 'some' web/email sources
Good commodity/futures 'basket' sources we have (they require a much larger capital base and you have to diversify and non-correlate)."
my experience watching trading rooms (the real deal with a live dom etc)
I can vouch for McDowell and Roy Kelly guys because I had a trick to see any hotcomm desktop, including the area outside of the recording region (which included the DOM and their chat areas).
If the trading groups on hotcomm are representative of the overall mentoring market, then based on my own snooping around on hotcomm, I can say with certainty that nine out of ten of the mentors out there are not trading real money accounts no matter what they say, PERIOD.
Dr. William McDowell and the Roy Kelly guys come to mind as a couple of the very hard to find, legit traders I saw trade live on their own DOM.
Watched McDowell net positive 200 ticks day after day after day.
Watched Roy Kelly guys do precision entries that netted forty-ticks or better over and over again. They also had accounts with big bucks, so they had interbank feeds on the YM. Shocking how many contracts we never see outside of the exchange and how many ways the big contracts are arbitraged between months.
Hope that helps,
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What got me excited about McDowell was that I saw he traded several instruments well. Plus he did sixteen contracts at a time up until the open, after that it varied. I was initially optimistic because I knew I could do a smaller proportion of contracts with my small account. I also have to give him credit because he consistently met his targets, usually within a couple of minutes.
Where I saw him fail is when he chased trades or jumped between DOM's, so I cannot really fault his specific techniques per se really more of habits we all tend to have. Dang it is a whirlwind during regular hours and I am not anywhere close to his acuity, so I had to find something more entry-level.
Come to think of it, where both of these guys lost me was in their trading technique inconsistencies.
Yes, Bill McDowell does eighty percent or better, but remember, he is doing teeny TINY targets, versus Simon who is doing small to medium targets. The commissions McDowell pays is a MUCH higher proportion than Simon.
Simon has a more predictable system, but at the price of bigtime complexity and a massive learning curve.
Bill's system can wipe you out due to the degree of noise in the market, so they can be all or nothing type of trades.
My biggest complaint is that both Bill and Simon have vague rules.
My heart feels like it is beating out of my chest on some of the trades I take, even though I plan them out, so I need a very strict rules-based system for lack of a better word.
From a technical point of view, Simon may have the overall better system, but dang he is hard to listen to (reminds me of the nutrisystems multilevel marketing guy).
Bill is more professor-like and flexible in trading from what I can tell simply based on everything I have seen. (I have probably virtually watched over his shoulder more than fifty hours. Someone with more experience could probably find his methods easier to grasp and would not feel overwhelmed by the playbook / nuances of each market.
In the end I went with the eotprolive guys because I have a background in middleware programming, understood their trading analysis techniques almost immediately, have more control over the analysis within ninjatrader, and the trades have much more realistic timeframe to determine go / no go at my level of experience.
Yes, the analysis is more Elder-like and generic, but I have most everything automated now so I sweat a hell of a lot less. I use a mix of techniques and am reasonably confident I could do it for a living if I had more discipline...
When did you take Simon's course? Are you still subscribed? Did you purchase all of the indicators?
If you get a minute, PM me. I have been thinking of building a system that is a cross between the old-school Cisco Futures method and Simon's setup. I used the Gomi ladder under NT6.5 but ditched it when it started slowing things down.
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