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Is School of Trade legitimate? (www.schooloftrade.com)
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Is School of Trade legitimate? (www.schooloftrade.com)

  #221 (permalink)
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Openrangetrading.com



Here is another CFTc charge of a trading room. CFTC charges Jody DuPont of Openrangetrading.com

CFTC Charges Jody Dupont of South Carolina and His Company, Open Range Trading LLC, with Commodity Trading Advisor Fraud

I would encourage everyone to get on the CFTC email list. Also, they have a Whistle blower program. As Big Mike has repeatedly said, Buyer Beware of any trading room. There performance on their site means nothing. Jody DuPont had 2 futures accounts. Both in the red. 98% of trading rooms are a joke.

I would love to work for the CFTC...

The Market is Smarter than You Are
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  #222 (permalink)
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tflanner View Post
I would encourage everyone to get on the CFTC email list. Also, they have a Whistle blower program. As Big Mike has repeatedly said, Buyer Beware of any trading room. There performance on their site means nothing. Jody DuPont had 2 futures accounts. Both in the red. 98% of trading rooms are a joke.

I would love to work for the CFTC...

Not a bad idea, but this thread has highlighted an interesting dilemma for the industry, why the hell would any decent person want to get into the training business considering all they are up against?

Those that can't do, teach is the old maxim. Traders who can trade extremely well have *zero interest in polluting their lives with crybaby beginners unless they really really love the sound of their own voice. Why? they are rich. I do well for myself and I keep a separate office to my apartment, 10 minutes away, so my own girlfriend does not bother me while I'm working during the week. I don't want random new traders under my feet or in my inbox when I'm working.

So there is the rub, the industry needs teachers but mostly anyone honest and a good instructor (but who can't press the button?) does not want to get accused of being a bad person. Lie down with dogs, you get fleas logic. I recall my dad being asked to run for election, he said no immediately simply as he knew he would get in a war with his own political party out of the gate.

Altruistic punishing of bad vendors is good for society however it can create a lack of supply into which the low grade dodgy guys move/exploit maybe? Perhaps some official CFTC exam or other "train the trainer" and background check could help? I'm not sure just thinking out loud.


*except for certain circumstances e.g. I know of one that used it as a way to find staff for his own fund etc. Naive but it sort of worked.


Last edited by Rory; October 5th, 2016 at 07:26 PM.
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  #223 (permalink)
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The question remains...What makes a trading room not a joke? What does it take?

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  #224 (permalink)
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HoopyTrading View Post
The question remains...What makes a trading room not a joke? What does it take?

Well we need to break it down to different categories of beginners as people learn differently / start at varying levels.

I needed a school to give me good fundamentals and sit me in class interactively with the live market for x hours a week. I was a complete complete beginner in April 2014. I really did not care if the instructor was making live trades or not, anything was better than what I knew. Support, resistance money management basics and I was off after three months.

Someone else might just need good reference materials.

Its easy to say its all terrible and nobody tries for the beginners but I ran across this recently as I was struggling to decipher an FIO webinar on order flow. Its hard to grasp when your a chart guy.

Order Flow Fundamentals in Futures Trading

It is really well broken down (order flow), there are a lot of articles there for their beginners from Optimus and its public anyway.

It would be nice to see more reviews (stars) to sort the better articles but I'd bet they get a lot of traffic and few rate articles until they have a lot of stars already. Darn lurkers.

I'm rushing but there is good stuff and honesty out there. Problem is as a beginner it feels like finding a needle in a haystack.

Edit: Its worse, I bet some beginners look for months and finally ask, ok whats a needle again? Not knowing what you don't know stage sucks.


Last edited by Rory; October 5th, 2016 at 10:09 PM. Reason: are not is
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  #225 (permalink)
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Well anyways

In a prior life i was a correctional officer.

Part of our job was to stroll through the kitchen at 3am, as part of our regular inspections. You never know what might be going on in the kitchen at 3am.

Well during the day the inmates who were well behaved and there for longer stays made meatloaf for fellow inmates. Sidenote: if you had an aquaintance that was working in the kitchen - y'all prolly wanna give him some extra respect, in case he gives your meatloaf some extra attention.

But at night the rats in the kitchen ate their fill. Biggest rats I ever saw to this day were the ones I encountered on those kitchen walks. In fact it is fair to say that my heart sped up a bit if I knew I had to walk through the kitchen at 3am.

Now today, 30 years later them rats might be a bit bigger.

If i was going to jail for say fraud or sumptin' like that (for defraudin fellow traders), heck I'd think real long an' hard 'bout eatin anything from the kitchen.

Enjoy. Y'all know who this post is for!

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  #226 (permalink)
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HoopyTrading View Post
The question remains...What makes a trading room not a joke? What does it take?

1 - Research
Google the hell out of the vendor by digging as deep as you can.

Any doubts - walk.

2 - Brokerage trading statements
Request 3 months of daily brokerage trading statements to be posted on the vendors website, showing the breakdown of all of the trades taken and of course the bottom line ongoing PnL.
Request 3 monthly statements that back up the daily statements posted. Why? So the vendor cannot skip posting a losing day (claiming they didn't trade). If they did this, the monthly statement PnL wouldn't match.

Whilst this could be open to fraud, it would take some effort to mock up a trading statement each and every day detailing every entry and exit.

Any doubts - walk.

3 - Free trial
Request at a minimum 3 to 5 days in the room as a trial. This will give you a chance to evaluate the traders style, risk management and methodology behind entries and exits. The vendor might be profitable but that doesn't mean it fits within your trading profile. Determine if the trading room will be a teaching of his/her method, a following of his/her method or both. And ensure you have a reasonable chance of getting on board the trade that is called or signaled.

Any doubts - walk.

4 - The DOM
Request the DOM is shown on the shared trading screen at all times. If a vendor doesn't want to do this because their trading account number could be shown, they must display Chart Trader as the next alternative.

Any doubts - walk.

5 - Follow
Be diligent. Cross reference all entries and exits that are claimed in the room during your free trial and match them to the daily trading statements that are posted. Just remember LMT order fills in SIM mean diddly squat LIVE.

Any doubts - walk.

6 - Prepare to lose some money
Trade with the aim to shadow the trader you are trying to follow. If you can't keep up and/or get fills, the room just might not be right for you. You should aim to match at least 85-90% of the traders fills.

Any doubts - walk.

7 - Learn to trade yourself without using a Trading Room

Any doubts - walk.

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  #227 (permalink)
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Did any room

Did you ever experience any room worth their fee?

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  #228 (permalink)
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mmaker View Post
Did you ever experience any room worth their fee?

None. Ever. Ever. Ever.

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  #229 (permalink)
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Congratulations, @LloydH it took four years, but tilting at windmills finally paid off. I know you feel vindicated.

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  #230 (permalink)
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JonnyBoy View Post
None. Ever. Ever. Ever.

And this is why that list of criteria is doomed and insisting on statements etc. will often lead to scammers? (or the last step in the list of course)

edit: I mean in a Catch 22 way, as I said before why would a wealthy trader bother teaching?

Most don't need a truly profitable trader to learn off, a smart person who understands can teach a beginner a lot as a mentor.

I got good value from the school I went to but I can't say who they are as I'll be ridiculed blindly I am certain.

The instructor was a past student of the course, he knew the mechanical setups (with context) being taught. He was not a great trader (yet) as he struggled with money problems in his personal life (new baby etc.) but he was open and honest about all of this.

I got a good grounding and someone (several) to bounce ideas off whenever I needed help. FIO had no Scalper's thread or close (Spoos maybe but it seemed unfriendly then) and I was ashamed of my ignorance so shy to bother people.

Some official vetted trainer qualification process might help?


Edit: Seems the CFTC is on a rampage.. https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/multiple-ninjatrader-vendors-busted-by-cftc.303361/


Last edited by Rory; October 5th, 2016 at 11:02 PM.
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