I tried it about a year ago. There were so many bad signals, as mentioned before I don't know how they made profits on some days when they said they did but so many losses. My basic indicators, and thousands of hours of chart time do better. Not bragging here, I just keep it simple and it works for me.
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I tried EOT Pro for several months last year. I spent about 3 months religiously following bills trades in the room, based on NCEP (2.5 at the time, i think). I also did some backtesting of their NCEP signals, and the data i compiled is still on their forums, on their website.
Anyways, like i said, i followed bills NCEP trades religiously for 3 months. I traded two contracts (live) and over the span of the 3 months, i lost several thousand dollars. I believe i only had a handful of winning weeks. I am not sure how bill was saying he was making money, i could not. It was a big disappointment, i honestly tried very hard to follow along precisely. I had almost-perfect discipline, and fantastic focus, and felt like after 3 months i'd given it more than a fair shake, so i gave up.
Not trying to bash them or anything. If other people have had good experiences with them, that's great. Just being honest about mine.
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I realize I'm about a year late answering this, but what the heck... I hate to leave conjecture like this out there:
Oh, EOTpro was making more money than ever when I left. Back then was right about when we started trading several markets at once, and scalping CL. That definitely improved our performance (and helped draw attention away from a few lean months on ES if I recall). When I was with them, Bill would pull his ninjatrader stats live for people, and I'd be surprised if he weren't still doing that today. Not only that, but our customer base was bigger than ever. The kinds of deals you are seeing announced this year were starting to come together right about when I left, as well.
But, I didn't get into trading so I could end up at another job We were very focused on business deals and re-inventing ourselves monthly to appeal more to customers, and what I really wanted to do was work on my trading. Even though they had the respect to treat me as a full partner in the decision-making process, I knew I joined them last and did not want to get in their way. So I left.
We did maintain communications with some customers that did very well with our stuff. By and large, those customers were not the ones who hang out in our chat room making small talk all day. Just an observation. We had some real success stories that I'm proud of, but there are many people that would find a way to lose money no matter what you did for them. We started to host webinars with people like Mark Douglas and Ruth Roosevelt to try to help people get their heads on straight, but it's one of those leading horses to water situations. Still, it wouldn't be the markets otherwise, and that's just a part of the business you have to accept. (it's also why it should not really concern you if you meet someone who tried it and couldn't win with it)
Some people on this thread say "I don't know how Bill is profitable" ... you know, towards the end of my involvement with them, what I really wanted was for us to shut down our indicator supply business and re-open as a hedge fund. I would not have been pushing for that if we weren't able to make money with our stuff
I haven't seen the stuff they use now, so I can't give an opinion on it. I just know that when I knew them they used their own product, successfully, and cared a lot about growing in ways that helped their customers as much as it appealed to them. I have always been able to make my own indicators, but I originally joined up with them to soak up Glen's wisdom and experience. To me, that alone was worth the monthly price, because let's face it... when you actually start to make money $300 is just a drop in the bucket, and anything that helps you get there faster is worth it.
I hope this helps.
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Yeah Richard! Glad to hear you again. Man, i remember you from your now super-old youtube videos of your day trades and when you were scalping "mcdonald's lunch money trades" hehe.-- and the introductions with NOTEPAD!! Your cameos of your long hair and trading station in the background made you my stoner-trading hero! I still think in some circles you are still among the god of gods and guru of guru's in the day-traders world.
man, i'm going back to 2007 and reviewing your vids.
Last edited by futurestrader1; July 5th, 2011 at 03:12 AM.
It's funny about having years of your trading online... the older the post is, the more I disagree with myself. I mean, look at the trading in that video you selected... it's horrible! It's cool to see how much I've learned and changed, but also kinda weird that people see the material from 2006 and think I'm still that person today. I'd get rid of the old stuff, but people are always telling me how much they like them (and the whole notepad.exe thing!), so I've left them up.
Thanks for the kind words!
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Platform: "I trade, therefore, I AM!"; Theme Song: "Atomic Dog!"
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I appreciated a lot about your response. FWIW, I agree these are the guys to get with, but the comment about lost customers chatting all day, that's so, in every room, no matter what the presentation is or product displayed, wonder why?
Bill is saying that if you're using a $5,000 account and expecting to make money, this isn't the best approach, because it takes money! I appreciate his honest acknowledgement regarding our chosen profession because so many are blow-outs in their accounts, and these tools will challenge a new person to their limits.
Are there any more current comments, because there are over 300 customers that have apparently sworn off all others and adopted his approach. That's refreshing to know that someone else is killing these markets daily...
Glad Richard gave a great response. It was fun to read. I always felt Shelly had a great heart and really cared fro her clients. I liked Bill too. I had just learned of 'daytrading' and was trying to soak up soooo much info.
I always wonderd what happened to Patty. She would take over in the 9am hour after Bill took a break. This would have been early 2008. She left all of a sudden and never heard what happened. She had like 22 screens or something insane like that. True scalper if I recall correctly.
I noticed this EOT link on NT email (i should unsubscribe), and somewhat distractedly visited their website. The intro was not uninteresting as the talk centered around data feeds and the discrepancies among them. This lead to further discussion of competing with HFT's which comprise "80%" of market volume. Not my statistic and I'm not sure of exactly which market or exchange of which he is speaking. This is interesting though as the CME is employing or will employ new servers to serve HFT and "ultra" HFT community. When EOT began discussing latency and the need for two feeds I began to wonder why NT would even be a consideration for him? They would not even make the minor league let alone come anywhere those traders--this is t-ball in comparison. And they want to scalp "against" HFTs?
The subject is interesting but trying to scalp now is not enticing; short term trading (day-trading) yes, and other vehiciles. From what I've read and come to believe lately, scalpers are unlikely to remain solvent over time, unless you can sustain something like an 80% win rate, in a 1:1 trade scenario.
I do not make a living trading but I took my first trade (handed to me by a friend and a broker) an options trade just before the Shah of Iran was overthrown and lost money (I went fishing, literally), and I am still here.
If interested see Flash Crash presentation:
"The Impact of High Frequency Trading on an Electronic Market,"
By Andrei A. Kirilenko, Albert S. Kyle,
Mehrdad Samadi, and Tu˘gkan Tšuzšu