Maybe start a journal here where you can have a track record developed for calling winners in advance (no editing for typos).
Create YouTube vids explaining your rational and how they went. ( Don't over sell it). Start a twitter account.
Reach out to ppl in the biz and see about certification requirements. All stuff I should do bc good luck getting rich not also trading other ppls money. I wasn't proactive enough in a good opportunity for moving to the UK last year and if it went well one great trade could have meant more profit than ill make in.... who knows
If you picked fake money winners based on what an actual market was doing - don't let someone tell you that doesn't matter bc it's not real $ - you will have ppl saying you shouldn't be nervous or stressed when you are.
Don't let it screw up doing well with another job though.
ETA: good point about fills. Might not be scalping so close that its a huge deal.
"Be right and sit tight." - Jesse Livermore
Last edited by whatnext; April 26th, 2013 at 01:16 AM.
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I think there are many firms posing as prop firms and really making money on fees, courses etc and by the time someone passes their criteria they already have enough money from them to supply the stop-loss portion of the funding account.
So once you have a lead on a firms name I think you'll have to do web searches on their reputation
Given that index futures are highly correlated, I don't see why your DAX strategy won't work on other index futures that TST offers. Or are you using some model that for some reason only works on the 25 most liquid German stocks?
If your strategy fails miserably on other index futures, I'd seriously consider dropping it all together and creating something else. By the way, just wondering, have you performed backtests as to why your strategy only works on the DAX?
a robust method is one that works across the product spectrum and on any time frame. My concern for the OP is that I see a little too much "me"....my system, my trading etc. While that may be a fantastic method and really working well for the OP, it is SIM. I do not say that to discourage. Simply noting that the emotion of trading real money is a different animal, as are slippage and commission.
Most guys in the business of taking on new prop traders want things done their way. I have never seen, except for cases of wealthy family support, the here I am, this is what I trade and this is how, supported with business risk capital.
Here on futures.io (formerly BMT) I became aware of something guys where calling $500 margin. It was a new term for me, but I guess that there are firms that will allow you to open a spot forex account and trade live against a $500 deposit using a $1000 face amount for USD denominated pairs. While this is not a high probability outcome, making it on a $500 account, it is a shot at the title and it is hundreds of times better than being a SIM trade tycoon.
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I would agree with many of the post you read above, you might not like what I am saying, but I want to prevent you and other readers from getting "taken".
1. Many firms that let you "trade with there Money" have little hidden strings, like it must be though there trading floor that has high "fees" commissions, desk fees, data feeds. A level 3 feed Bloomberg terminal is a very expensive way to draw a chart. Also in the fine print you may find that if you loose the money you owe it back. So that is not their money, unless you win, if you loose, it is suddenly "your loan" you are playing with . . . A free lunch is rare, if you get a cut of the profits it normally comes with a cut of the risk. The safe way to trade with other peoples money is to join a big hedge fund or investment bank. Unfortunately when you do that you mostly are just executing orders on behalf of clients. It is not so much fun to spend a morning trying to unload 100,000 shares of Apple as close a Vwap as you can get. Or worse the bond desk. . . snore.
2. You mentioned you were profitable for the last six months. Sorry to say, but that is not that hard to do, this has been a raging bull of a market the last six months. I have 30 years in. The markets right now look like a beautiful maiden, she has a nasty green witch side too . . .
I hate to be a downer, but it is a world of "Buyer Beware".
- Safe Trading
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I wouldn't be put off by TST if you can adapt to their products. They have a series of parameters you have to adhere to which helps to turn you into a disciplined trader. You also don't start on too much and you have a small financial investment in the sim stage, so the progression is gradual. I think they have the right idea and they are not about fleecing you by extracting course fees, their fees are very reasonable for what they do. If I were you, I wouldn't get too involved in their courses and forums - just way too many opinions! If you are profitable, just focus on what you do, but that probably goes without saying.
If you want to learn how to trade with low investment yet, feel the pain of loosing (which you have to do), do a few TopStep combines.
If you're constantly profitable, put some skin in the game as well. Fail, blow out your account on a single bad trade, pick yourself up and repete. We've all done it. And if you somehow start live trading and are doing it for a living in less than 2-3 years without going insane, you're in the top 1% of all day traders ever.
Below is a short list of prop firms that will 'possibly' fund you without at least a 5-10+K deposit. just pick up the phone and call them all. You have to be aggressive when you're essentially looking for something for nothing. Most prop firms will require capital (as the should if they are willing to provide liquidity) but you'll have to trade their way on their platforms using their training program. Which is not a bad thing. You'll always be learning now matter how you choose to trade.
Blue Point Trading - Proprietary Trading Firm is one I find very intreaging. I had a great conversation with the owner William this morning. We actually traded the CL via skype this morning during our first convo, Super sharp guy with a quite unique way to get funding for trading. If you understand what they are doing, from a business prospective its brilliant. More inovative than any prop I've seen.
It takes longer than say a TopStep but, their 'vetting' rules are not as strict but it will take a good 6months to start really earning money. Not a bad thing though.
And the Dax will wipe you clean faster than the GC if you're your not careful. My recommendation. Open a small futures account and chart/build your plan and strategies with the CL, and buy the QM. Never chart the QM. It's basically the same derivative just less volatile with much less liquidity - but it moves with the CL. W/ Lower margins. And with a 5-10K account you can put your money here your mouth is. You'll most likley loose it if you've only traded paper, but that's a good thing. You must fuck up to learn this business. You'll likley do it more than once.
The CL is the traders contract. Its all I trade. And while your 'Really' learning how to trade - the psychology needed is 80% of it and the only way to know if you really have the stomach for it, is to start doing it for real.
And start whoring yourself for capital as you start building a tangible track record.
I keep epeting myself, but Do a TopStep combine, trading only the CL and you'll find out what you're really made of and where you need to improve as a trader (or not, you may be that 1%, who am I too say) Many professionals I know can't complete one successfully. People who have published books and make their living trading fail the combine. I'm on my 4th one. I still trade my own money, but while I'm building my own account 1-2 CL contracts at a time, I'm also actively seeking funds from prop firms in tandem. I have not contacted the ones below, but if they have similar programs like TopStep and my new friends at blue point (they are based in France btw) I'm going to 'try out' for all of them as many times as I'm allowed until I get funded properly I.e 200K+ or I manage to do that with my own account.
And never think 'trading' is your only revenue stream. Start selling your live signals on Collective2. If you're not already, become a software engineer and mathematician and program commissioned quant strategies and indicators. (Although the best indicators on the planet are right on this website in the elite section. Without naming everyone, people like FatTails and Zondor are programming genius and give away 100* better work than crap I've bought. There are so many others as well, I just use their work or my own derivation in some way in almost all my trading strategies. I will buy those gents, Big Mike and a few others Ferraris one day.
Anyway, to recap again, start your combines and blue-point, open a live account, sell your signals on Collective2 and write software. And somone in a previous post mentioned starting a blog, write training videos - All while seeking funding. Make yourself and your skills known and available. Doing these things will up your personal stock when a fund manager is considering giving you money. Good luck and I wish you all the best.
Traditum Group in Chicago....spread trading was their specialty...although i have not spoken with anyone there in a few years....my friend had a similar prop shop (no longer though) and they had no problem hiring younger guys with no experience.
good luck. i think prop shop is a good route to go. just don't pay money to be part of it.
edit....Also, Gator trading in Chicago
The Market is Smarter than You Are
Last edited by tflanner; May 31st, 2014 at 12:12 AM.
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