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TopstepTrader's Michael Patak (President) - Ask Me Anything (AMA)
Started:February 8th, 2013 (07:49 PM) by Big Mike Views / Replies:112,212 / 862
Last Reply:November 29th, 2016 (11:51 AM) Attachments:14

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TopstepTrader's Michael Patak (President) - Ask Me Anything (AMA)

Old March 27th, 2015, 03:43 AM   #491 (permalink)
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t0030tr View Post
I don't think that is the case Lemons. The way to trade for TST remains the same always. Remain profitable.

No unfortunately that is not correct. The rules do change and they severely hurt traders who trade the continuous combine the way it is meant to be traded (ie: base hits over a long period of time not looking for quick profits and home runs).

This was detailed here:
https://futures.io/vendors-product-reviews/25776-topsteptrader-s-michael-patak-p...thing-46.html#post474180

TST promised to review this rule but it seems their business model simply works too well to change.

If you're someone doing a continuous combine and do not complete it in 10 days, then both LTP and the first 10 days of live trading set you up for failure.

In my honest opinion, the continuous combine is a farce. Either ensure you can pass the combine in 10 days (thus allowing you to trade in the same manner during LTP and live). Or simply use the continuous combine as a place to learn and leave it at that.

You don’t trade the markets; you only trade your beliefs about the markets.
- Van K Tharp

Last edited by DarkPoolTrading; March 27th, 2015 at 03:59 AM.
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Old March 27th, 2015, 09:14 AM   #492 (permalink)
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DarkPoolTrading View Post
No unfortunately that is not correct. The rules do change and they severely hurt traders who trade the continuous combine the way it is meant to be traded (ie: base hits over a long period of time not looking for quick profits and home runs).

This was detailed here:
https://futures.io/vendors-product-reviews/25776-topsteptrader-s-michael-patak-p...thing-46.html#post474180

TST promised to review this rule but it seems their business model simply works too well to change.

If you're someone doing a continuous combine and do not complete it in 10 days, then both LTP and the first 10 days of live trading set you up for failure.

In my honest opinion, the continuous combine is a farce. Either ensure you can pass the combine in 10 days (thus allowing you to trade in the same manner during LTP and live). Or simply use the continuous combine as a place to learn and leave it at that.


Apologies Dark Pool, I did not consider the combine in this context. For me it is the revere I guess. I have struggled to get to the end of 10 days. For myself it has been a complete dismissal of the daily draw down as I have been solely focused on the process. Not being able to hit target in ten days would completely elude me personally. I suppose I did not think of the combine in the context that it was considered for originally. For me it was something else, meaning having the ability to restart on failure at a lower cost until I could master the process.

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Old March 27th, 2015, 09:30 AM   #493 (permalink)
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lemons View Post
No.

Combine is continues but LTP is fix to 10 trading days.
Lets say in Continues Combine your average day is 50 $.
Lets say you keep the same average 50 $ day then with
10 days you make 500 $ but passing the LTP you need to
make depending of Combine. 30'000 LTP target is 750 $
50'000 LTP target is 1500$.

You can be successful in many Combines but you can never
pass the LTP with 50 $ daily average.

Perhaps TST is seeking people who intend to trade professionally. Based on that number, a person would never be considered a professional trader. I suppose this might be a lot of money in some places of the world, but here in the US, it would probably not seem a worthwhile en devour to an equity partner.

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Old March 27th, 2015, 09:41 AM   #494 (permalink)
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DarkPoolTrading View Post
No unfortunately that is not correct. The rules do change and they severely hurt traders who trade the continuous combine the way it is meant to be traded (ie: base hits over a long period of time not looking for quick profits and home runs).

This was detailed here:
https://futures.io/vendors-product-reviews/25776-topsteptrader-s-michael-patak-p...thing-46.html#post474180

TST promised to review this rule but it seems their business model simply works too well to change.

If you're someone doing a continuous combine and do not complete it in 10 days, then both LTP and the first 10 days of live trading set you up for failure.

In my honest opinion, the continuous combine is a farce. Either ensure you can pass the combine in 10 days (thus allowing you to trade in the same manner during LTP and live). Or simply use the continuous combine as a place to learn and leave it at that.

you have 60 days to complete LTP. your trailing drawdown gets moved up after 10 trading days. I don't see the issue here. @lemons keeps using a low average daily profit as an example of how moving that drawdown is unfair. I don't see it that way. I see this as a business on both sides. they provide the ability for people with the ability to trade profitably the chance to get funding if that is not possible themselves. they also are in the business of making money. there are good days and bad days in trading but if someone told me that I could only make a 50avg/day for the rest of my trading career, I wouldn't continue.

dont believe anything you hear and only half of what you see

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Old March 27th, 2015, 09:49 AM   #495 (permalink)
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madLyfe View Post
you have 60 days to complete LTP. your trailing drawdown gets moved up after 10 trading days. I don't see the issue here.

The issue is described in detail in the link I posted. But to summarize:

Lets say a trader does the 50k continuous combine and takes 3 months to complete it. That means it took him 3 months to make $3K. If that trader moves to the next stages he is expected to build a big enough cushion in 10 days such that the trailing drawdown can be moved up and he has to rely on whatever profit he has made in 10 days.

You are asking someone who took 3 months to make $3k to all of a sudden change the way he trades because of an arbitrary 10 days. Simply put, if the combine is continuous, so should ltp and live.

The very nature of the continuous combine (the way it is marketed to the public) is that you don't have to rush. It attracts traders with this mindset and style of trading. Yet when they pass, all of a sudden an arbitrary 10 day deadline is placed on them.

Anyway, I will refrain from rehashing the issue because it seems nothing will be done about this and I no longer participate in the combine anyway. Just thought I would post the link since it was relevant to the discussion.

You don’t trade the markets; you only trade your beliefs about the markets.
- Van K Tharp
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Old March 27th, 2015, 10:06 AM   #496 (permalink)
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DarkPoolTrading View Post
The issue is described in detail in the link I posted. But to summarize:

Lets say a trader does the 50k continuous combine and takes 3 months to complete it. That means it took him 3 months to make $3K. If that trader moves to the next stages he is expected to build a big enough cushion in 10 days such that the trailing drawdown can be moved up and he has to rely on whatever profit he has made in 10 days.

You are asking someone who took 3 months to make $3k to all of a sudden change the way he trades because of an arbitrary 10 days. Simply put, if the combine is continuous, so should ltp and live.

The very nature of the continuous combine (the way it is marketed to the public) is that you don't have to rush. It attracts traders with this mindset and style of trading. Yet when they pass, all of a sudden an arbitrary 10 day deadline is placed on them.

Anyway, I will refrain from rehashing the issue because it seems nothing will be done about this and I no longer participate in the combine anyway. Just thought I would post the link since it was relevant to the discussion.

i get what you are saying and maybe they need to make it more clear of the 10 day trailing drawdown on the continuous combines. i know ive stated that they need to put that rule above in the trade report like with the other rules just for good measure. that still doesnt change the fact that they need people to perform and not flounder about.

dont believe anything you hear and only half of what you see

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Old March 27th, 2015, 12:13 PM   #497 (permalink)
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madLyfe View Post
i get what you are saying and maybe they need to make it more clear of the 10 day trailing drawdown on the continuous combines. i know ive stated that they need to put that rule above in the trade report like with the other rules just for good measure. that still doesnt change the fact that they need people to perform and not flounder about.

Agreed, thats why Combine must have LTP rules.

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Old March 27th, 2015, 12:14 PM   #498 (permalink)
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lemons View Post
Agreed, thats why Combine must have LTP rules.

or, if you cant adjust, take a regular 10day combine.

dont believe anything you hear and only half of what you see

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Old March 28th, 2015, 08:47 PM   #499 (permalink)
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news trading

This is a question for Michael.

At the moment I am doing a continuous combine.

The method being used... trading news releases using specialized bracketing software.

Just starting the second month in the combine now and have gone passed the target level but need to bring one product above zero.

From the start I had planned on trading the 2 month minimum regardless of when the target was hit.

Reason being... I was told or read somewhere that you could trade the news releases in the combine but could not trade the news with a live funded account until you built up equity using some other method.

Because of this rule... I was hoping that if I could show consistant growth in the account with little drawdown, minimal contracts, and with tight stoplosses, etc... that the equity partner could be convinced to allow me to trade in a live account without having to find some other way to build up equity.

Personally... I don't want to trade any other way... I could make a long list of reasons why this method works well... but the main thing is... everybody has to find their own niche and after 20 years of looking for something that fits and feels right... this is it.

This business requires the trader to keep evolving and changing with the market conditions and new technology... and am hoping that TST and the equity partner will too.

So the question is... if a trader could pass the combine successfully trading news releases... why would he/she not be allowed to trade a live funded account using the same parameters/method from the beginning?

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Old March 28th, 2015, 10:23 PM   #500 (permalink)
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the reason is simple: you can trade news release using bracket order on a SIM account with nice profit due to unrealistic fills, but stand no chance on a live account when the book is thin and move is volatile during news releases.

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