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TopstepTrader's Michael Patak (President) - Ask Me Anything (AMA)
Started:February 8th, 2013 (07:49 PM) by Big Mike Views / Replies:112,550 / 862
Last Reply:November 29th, 2016 (11:51 AM) Attachments:14

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TopstepTrader's Michael Patak (President) - Ask Me Anything (AMA)

Old July 10th, 2013, 08:43 AM   #151 (permalink)
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It's sorta betting whether you can make it in 10 days, or whether you make it and don't blow in 20. I can see the psychology aspect working here, so it's not only about trading per se.

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Old July 10th, 2013, 08:44 AM   #152 (permalink)
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Am I reading this wrong....

Still sounds like the 20 day combines exist. They just have the same profit target. So you can decide either 10 or 20 days to reach the same profit target.

... the 20-day combines as we knew them recently are actually history!

Sorry for not being clear - I mean we are back to strict time-bound combines (which they had started at the beginning) instead of the "minimum time" ones.

In 10-day combines too the number of days to achieve target cannot be between 10 and 20 they cap them at 10.

Thus you need to take an "observer" stance for all the other days which is good discipline but you need to up the game a bit.

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Old July 10th, 2013, 08:51 AM   #153 (permalink)
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xelaar View Post
It's sorta betting whether you can make it in 10 days, or whether you make it and don't blow in 20. I can see the psychology aspect working here, so it's not only about trading per se.

It would be interesting to know how many people reach the target early only to have some losing days cause them to fall under and not reach the objective.

I agree with the Psychology aspect as most people would be quick to think the longer time frame is better to reach the same goal.

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Old July 10th, 2013, 09:04 AM   #154 (permalink)
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Thus you need to take an "observer" stance for all the other days which is good discipline but you need to up the game a bit.

The "old style" combine allowed you some extra trading days if you were close to reaching the profit target. Now, you only get extra days if you decide not to take any trades on some of the days.

This will help me if I I'm unable to trade some of the days. But my trading method does not have a "wait and decide if you should trade today" component. I'll have a hard time deciding if a day is a day to skip before making at least one trade.

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Old July 10th, 2013, 09:12 AM   #155 (permalink)
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This means the 20-day combines as we knew them recently are actually history!

I have to say I do not agree with this change and I do not think it promotes good trading habits.

The email states that this is aimed at promoting patience, but in fact what this will result in is people skipping valid setups because they're scared of using up one of their trading days. What TST is looking for is traders who have a defined edge which takes into account risk, loss limits, market structure, targets etc. When the trader see's their edge present itself they execute. Period.

The 'minimum' structure they have had in place lends itself to traders executing their edge when they see it, and not picking and choosing which valid setups to take. When you see a valid setup as per your edge, you take it. This new 'limit' structure will result in traders skipping perfectly good trades because they dont want to use up a day. They will begin looking for sure things. As we know, good traders trade probabilities, they dont trade sure things. By skipping valid setups because you're scared of using up a day, you are not trading probabilities, you are waiting for a sure thing which doesn't exist in the market.

Further to that, TST will now have much less information about prospective traders after only 10 or 20 trading days. Personally, I would want to see how a person trades consistently over a 2 month period. Not how they trade on 10 or 20 cherry picked days.

Edit: Patience in trading is about waiting for valid setups. Patience is not about skipping days or valid trades looking for a sure thing.

You donít trade the markets; you only trade your beliefs about the markets.
- Van K Tharp

Last edited by DarkPoolTrading; July 10th, 2013 at 09:26 AM.
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Old July 10th, 2013, 09:35 AM   #156 (permalink)
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I have to say I do not agree with this change and I do not think it promotes good trading habits.

The email states that this is aimed at promoting patience, but in fact what this will result in is people skipping valid setups because they're scared of using up one of their trading days. What TST is looking for is traders who have a defined edge which takes into account risk, loss limits, market structure, targets etc. When the trader see's their edge present itself they execute. Period.

The 'minimum' structure they have had in place lends itself to traders executing their edge when they see it, and not picking and choosing which valid setups to take. When you see a valid setup as per your edge, you take it. This new 'limit' structure will result in traders skipping perfectly good trades because they dont want to use up a day. They will begin looking for sure things. As we know, good traders trade probabilities, they dont trade sure things. By skipping valid setups because you're scared of using up a day, you are not trading probabilities, you are waiting for a sure thing which doesn't exist in the market.

Further to that, TST will now have much less information about prospective traders after only 10 or 20 trading days. Personally, I would want to see how a person trades consistently over a 2 month period. Not how they trade on 10 or 20 cherry picked days.

Edit: Patience in trading is about waiting for valid setups. Patience is not about skipping days or valid trades looking for a sure thing.

I agree with your comments...

It can also add the psychological pressures that "I took a trade today" so not I must be profitable today. Need to keep this kind of thinking out of trading.

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John
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Old July 10th, 2013, 09:38 AM   #157 (permalink)
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I agree with your comments...

It can also add the psychological pressures that "I took a trade today" so not I must be profitable today. Need to keep this kind of thinking out of trading.

Exactly right. Initially traders will be far too wary of placing a trade for fear of using a day. Then once he has placed that first trade he will be more inclined to force trades because rather than waste one of his precious 10 or 20 days, he's going to MAKE the market pay him. We all know what that results in.

They obviously want to promote patience in waiting for valid trades, which is great. However all this will do is result in people skipping valid trades and then over trading once they've placed a trade for the day.

You donít trade the markets; you only trade your beliefs about the markets.
- Van K Tharp

Last edited by DarkPoolTrading; July 10th, 2013 at 09:50 AM.
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Old July 10th, 2013, 10:42 AM   #158 (permalink)
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It's sorta betting whether you can make it in 10 days, or whether you make it and don't blow in 20. I can see the psychology aspect working here, so it's not only about trading per se.

Xelaar- You are a bit correct. It is not completely about trading at this point but more understanding what you are capable of and making the decision that fits that.

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Old July 10th, 2013, 10:46 AM   #159 (permalink)
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... the 20-day combines as we knew them recently are actually history!

Sorry for not being clear - I mean we are back to strict time-bound combines (which they had started at the beginning) instead of the "minimum time" ones.

In 10-day combines too the number of days to achieve target cannot be between 10 and 20 they cap them at 10.

Thus you need to take an "observer" stance for all the other days which is good discipline but you need to up the game a bit.

iqgod- You are correct the minimum is gone and replaced with the decision to either trade 10 or 20 days to meet the same rules and target.

mp

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Old July 10th, 2013, 10:53 AM   #160 (permalink)
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I agree with your comments...

It can also add the psychological pressures that "I took a trade today" so not I must be profitable today. Need to keep this kind of thinking out of trading.

I believe they want to see people taking only high probability trades, not shooting "maybe it will work".

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