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No BS Day Trading www.nobsdaytrading.com
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No BS Day Trading www.nobsdaytrading.com

  #81 (permalink)
Get In, Get Out, Get Paid
Springfield, MO/USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Jigsaw
Broker/Data: AMP CQG
Favorite Futures: ZN, ZB
 
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spideysteve View Post
I've been interested in learning OF for quite some time now and it seems like the beginner course would be a good place to start. I've only ever looked at charts (of course technicals) and have recently ditched all indicators to focus more on price action and formation.

I'm also taking the next step in my journey and transitioning from a price action purist to order flow scalper. Keep in mind that John teaches one very specific aspect of order flow. The DOM, the summary tape & footprint are all different ways of displaying the same order flow information. Be sure to investigate all to see what fits you best. For me, it's the Jigsaw DOM. I've been a price action scalper for years, but felt I was missing something. Seeing the order flow for the first time, I realized I had been trading the shadow of the market participants and only seeing the effect of their actions.

As for the DOM aspect of order flow, the teaching that John does is truly unique in this industry. Peter Davies does a great job laying out the basics (for free!). There are lots of sources with training on using volume footprint, but I've been unable to find anything on par with the material John provides regarding reading the DOM.


Last edited by Heph333; October 16th, 2016 at 12:26 PM. Reason: Spelling
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  #82 (permalink)
Get In, Get Out, Get Paid
Springfield, MO/USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Jigsaw
Broker/Data: AMP CQG
Favorite Futures: ZN, ZB
 
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Posts: 29 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 42 given, 55 received

Curious... Why Bookmap instead of Auction Vista? Once the standalone Jigsaw is released, using Vista would completely free you from any platform. Personally, I can't quite cut the cord to my one tick chart, so I'm still tethered to Ninjatrader.

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  #83 (permalink)
Membership Temporarily Revoked
London, UK
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: sierra chart, Jigsaw Trading, Bookmap
Favorite Futures: 6E futures, Cable
 
Posts: 93 since Aug 2012
Thanks: 3 given, 121 received



Heph333 View Post
Curious... Why Bookmap instead of Auction Vista? Once the standalone Jigsaw is released, using Vista would completely free you from any platform. Personally, I can't quite cut the cord to my one tick chart, so I'm still tethered to Ninjatrader.

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As much as I value Jigsaw depth & Sales, Vista is not at par with Bookmap. And Bookmap can be used standalone too. The new version 5 is even more detailed when it comes to customisation. Can't do without, very valuable.


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  #84 (permalink)
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Vancouver, Canada
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader, Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Ninjatrader Continuum
Favorite Futures: ES, ZB
 
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dom64 View Post
As much as I value Jigsaw depth & Sales, Vista is not at par with Bookmap. And Bookmap can be used standalone too. The new version 5 is even more detailed when it comes to customisation. Can't do without, very valuable.


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I myself went back to using Bookmap. I just feel the learning curve is not as steep but I'm also focusing on bigger moves intraday instead of scalping for several ticks here and there.

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  #85 (permalink)
Membership Temporarily Revoked
London, UK
 
Futures Experience: Master
Platform: sierra chart, Jigsaw Trading, Bookmap
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It's just visuals so I suppose it is easier for someone learning. Sometimes there are just a few ticks to take and sometimes more, it is not dependant on the tool we use to watch the market but on the flow of orders itself, or at least this is how I operate. Having said that whatever works for everyone is good !


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  #86 (permalink)
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Denton, Texas/USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: Emini ES
 
Posts: 4 since May 2016
Thanks: 1 given, 0 received

So as a beginner in the futures trading world I'm wondering what you guys think of the idea of starting to really learn to trade with order flow, specifically No BS Day Trading. There seem to be a lot of conflicting reports in this thread as to the value of what No BS is offering and it's making me quite hesitant to jump into it. What do you all think?

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  #87 (permalink)
Get In, Get Out, Get Paid
Springfield, MO/USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Jigsaw
Broker/Data: AMP CQG
Favorite Futures: ZN, ZB
 
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Posts: 29 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 42 given, 55 received

I'm using it for about 90% of my trading decision tree. The only thing I have up is a naked 100 tick chart for context. The DOMs are attached to daily charts that I consult once in the morning to see where we are felative to the past few days/weeks.
For me personally, I prefer the "before/as she goes". I avoid trading the ranges/reversals. It's not my style. Lately, there's been a lot of runaway trains to jump aboard.

I think the transition was easy for me as I've been scalping price action for years. And I mean price action, not price patterns. Most of what is published as price action is really price patterns. For me, how a bar developed was far more important than how it looked after complete. Some of the concepts I learned from Al Brooks have served me well, like identifying trapped traders. Al was the first to get me to start playing the metagame rather than the game.

My overall philosophy when it comes to scalping is that I'm not playing their game. I can't afford to. I'm simply an observer of the game and placing bets on the players. It's like watching WSOP, except I can't see the players cards. All I can see is their bets. I have to observe the players, wait until someone starts betting big, then decide if they are bluffing or not so I can bet on them or against them, or simply decline to participate.

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Last edited by Heph333; October 30th, 2016 at 08:16 PM.
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  #88 (permalink)
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Springfield, MO/USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Jigsaw
Broker/Data: AMP CQG
Favorite Futures: ZN, ZB
 
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Posts: 29 since Oct 2009
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Zaradis View Post
So as a beginner in the futures trading world I'm wondering what you guys think of the idea of starting to really learn to trade with order flow, specifically No BS Day Trading. There seem to be a lot of conflicting reports in this thread as to the value of what No BS is offering and it's making me quite hesitant to jump into it. What do you all think?

It is only one very specialized technique in a sea of approaches. The single most important factor is whether the approach fits you.

Some of my opinions regarding the personality traits of a scalper:

1. Calm under intense pressure. I know my limitation for this ability... After about 2 hours of hyperfocusing, my judgement becomes impaired.

2. Satisfied with small steady gains. Can you take only 3 ticks out of a 20 tick move and not let it bother you enough to change the way you trade? Some put it as "would you rather risk 2 ticks on ten lots or 20 ticks on one lot?"

3. Scalpers have to be fanatical in their risk control. With the leverage we swing, you can't afford to hesitate to take a loss. This should be point #1.


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  #89 (permalink)
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Denton, Texas/USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
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Heph333 View Post
It is only one very specialized technique in a sea of approaches. The single most important factor is whether the approach fits you.

Some of my opinions regarding the personality traits of a scalper:

1. Calm under intense pressure. I know my limitation for this ability... After about 2 hours of hyperfocusing, my judgement becomes impaired.

2. Satisfied with small steady gains. Can you take only 3 ticks out of a 20 tick move and not let it bother you enough to change the way you trade? Some put it as "would you rather risk 2 ticks on ten lots or 20 ticks on one lot?"

3. Scalpers have to be fanatical in their risk control. With the leverage we swing, you can't afford to hesitate to take a loss. This should be point #1.


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Thanks for the quick reply! I really appreciate hearing your feelings on the product and especially that you're having success with it. Offering up your thoughts on a successful scalper's personality traits is just icing on that cake! I have a bachelor's degree in philosophy and have enjoyed studying it most of my life. I feel that in-depth study of philosophy over many years has possibly helped me to have an upper hand over most beginner traders when it comes to the psychology of successful trading. In my experience, I have a fairly good grasp on number 1. The other two will, of course, take time and experience. Thanks again!

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  #90 (permalink)
Elite Member
Singapore
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: NinjaTrader Brokerage, Continuum
Favorite Futures: FESX, FGBL
 
Posts: 85 since Apr 2013
Thanks: 21 given, 131 received



Zaradis View Post
Thanks for the quick reply! I really appreciate hearing your feelings on the product and especially that you're having success with it. Offering up your thoughts on a successful scalper's personality traits is just icing on that cake! I have a bachelor's degree in philosophy and have enjoyed studying it most of my life. I feel that in-depth study of philosophy over many years has possibly helped me to have an upper hand over most beginner traders when it comes to the psychology of successful trading. In my experience, I have a fairly good grasp on number 1. The other two will, of course, take time and experience. Thanks again!

Hi Zaradis,

As far as DOM reading is concerned, I feel that this course is really one of the most comprehensive out there. Although it is a little bit on the pricey side, however John leaves no stone unturned. Although there have been some mixed reviews about this course, particularly with regards to John's actual live trading performance, it would say that it varies. I personally have taken the course several times, and there are Webinars where he does really well, and some where he just did OK. It really depends on market conditions, and that is really the harsh reality of trading. Even if you have a proven edge in the market, there will still be times where you suffer draw downs, losing streaks etc.... I'm sure, that with your background you'll be able to appreciate this aspect of trading.

So, at the end of day, it really depends on what sort of trading style you want to adopt. If you are more towards swing trading, of even intraday swing trading, then this course wouldn't be of much benefit for you. However, if you are leaning towards being a scalper and really identifying pure short term order flow imbalances and taking advantage of that, then I think this course is the best one out there for that.

Hope that helps in your decision.

Cheers!

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