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Maybe you're right--but it sure would be nice to back that up with facts, evidence, or proof. Vendors rarely if ever back up their own claims with facts, evidence, or proof, but still, an accusation is an accusation, and you made it. Burden of proof of your own claim is on you.
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I was really interested because we would all get to see just how successful they are. But they never followed through. So much for transparency. After this I lost all interest in them.
We can debate whether they really make money or not but there is no proof and so it's a bit pointless to debate it (although some may consider it entertaining, but I'd consider it a waste of time).
Personally my rule is this: I only listen to people who have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they're really trading and really making money. Only a few people have qualified. And those are the ones I listen to. The rest I ignore because I simply don't have time for it. I find I do much better this way.
I will say Awais is very good at his homework, making levels, and analyzing the context of the market. I've seen him make some amazing calls, like warning of a big sell-off a day before it happens, etc. It's impressive. Is this enough for him to make money trading? I don't know. I haven't seen proof that he has and so unfortunately he falls into the group that I ignore.
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The burden of proof most certainly does NOT fall on him. He isn't the one asking people to send him $4,000 for a course. The burden of proof is on the vendor and so far we haven't seen anything from those guys to prove that they're anything BUT snake oil salesmen. Being "nice" doesn't suffice when someone is asking for that much money.
I wrote a long reply but I'll simplify greatly: he isn't asking for money. He is making an accusation and (presumably) asking people to believe it, without providing any evidence of its truthfulness. If you are gullible enough to believe an internet guy who makes claims like that, then you should have no trouble taking OT at their word, as they similarly are making a claim without proof. My view is, "I need to see proof before I believe you." The other view says "I declare that you are lying, but even though I am chastising you for lack of proof, I also have none for my claim, so please take me at my word."
That being said, I am very disappointed that OpenTrader has not followed through as promised. One possibility (probability) is that they are not making money, so they are not providing data. But I am not so condemnatory as to make that claim.
My guess is that either way, those seeking such signs of truth are wasting their time. Who really cares if they make money? It's not as if this is a cookie-cutter thing and you can mind-numbingly follow them and achieve the same results. Time would be better spent studying, or working on improving something about oneself, than this.
Last edited by josh; October 28th, 2013 at 02:46 PM.
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That view might seem a bit harsh, and maybe it is in OTHER fields. Trading "education" on the other hand, is the most corrupt den of thieves I've ever witnessed in my entire life. After pursuing this for 5 years now, I can say without any hesitation that 99 out of 100 "vendors" are failed traders who are trying another way to make money in "the markets."
Considering how many bogus "educators" there are in this field, asking one to prove that they know how to make money trading IS NOT UNREASONABLE. Providing proof would be the easiest thing in the world for someone who's actually making money. If you don't see it that way then I would say that you're unbelievably naive and a prime candidate for any of the thousands of scammers out there. Good luck to you.
Last edited by nopac; October 29th, 2013 at 12:08 PM.
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