I'll take the other side of that bet with size if you are interested.
I dont want to get into a pissing match about this so i will just throw my opinion into the mix:
I have not taken their course but i have watched their preview and i always watch the videos awais posts on twitter. Its painfully ovbious he knows what he is doing and is a real pro. As for ziad, i dont really know much. i think he is prolly a great trader too but i dont think he explains stuff as well as awais from the little i have seen. he reminds me of myself when i was scalping some years ago and tried training my friend- i was really good at trading but man i sucked at explaining it. I know everyone and their mother wants someone to not only tell them exactly what price to buy but then actually click the mouse for them but real trading doesnt work that way. Real trading is wishy washy- do this if A happens but if B happens then do the exact opposite and if C happens do nothing. I would welcome any involvement of these guys with this site.
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They said they'd start posting their trade records months ago and never have. Why is that? If you take their course you'll figure out why. They're so vague about their "method" that they never actually commit to anything. In their weekly coaching session, it's the same thing. They only "critique" other people's trades, they never say anything about the trades that they've supposedly taken.
The first step in proving that they actually trade would be to show brokerage statements or platform generated blotters that show the trades they made. The next step would be to give detailed explanations showing exactly how and why their method had them taking and managing those trades. After several months of that, they'd have irrefutable proof that their method has an edge and that they (the people charging thousands of dollars for their course) have the ability to apply the method with real money. They haven't done anything like that (even though they said they would).
You might dismiss my criticisms as nothing more than me wanting someone to "tell me every move to make" etc, but I don't think I'm being unreasonable when I ask someone who's charging thousands of dollars to prove to me that they actually trade.
As far as their pre-market stuff, I've watched them for a month and it's more of the same. Mainly which levels to watch. Whether they actually take the trades in real time and whether a large sampling of those trades are profitable is where the rubber meets the road. That's the only thing that matters and they're clearly unwilling to offer any proof of that.
The vast majority of "educators" in this business are people who never figured out how to trade and turned to selling bogus training instead. Anybody who's been at this for more than a year knows this. I (like many others on this board) have wasted a lot of money on these idiots. These guys are absolutely CLASSIC charlatans and I feel compelled to tell people about it.
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Hey guys, sure everyone has their opinion & I personally respect every opinion. Well I thought I had owed my review to opentrader.com and hence did a review. I knew there was a thread on this all along. It was just pay back for me to review.
I personally got quite some stuff out of the program.. so i am happy Well as I said I had the program without paying so I always had the option of not signing up. I think I got a fair share out of it & hence got enrolled.
But I also realize there are real super smart people of there. I needed some help which I got. No regrets atleast from my end. Even a coin has 2 sides. And trading is a hard game. Something suiting one trader may not suit another. I am happy that the program was quite sticky with me.
I also rely heavily on volume & Tape stuff. Guess my handle tells some of it Some of the stuff i use may have a mention in some other threads and some on stealth for now . These are very complimentary to everything i have learnt and use thru my trading endeavors and opentrader was definitely one aspect of my learnings. I use opentrader stuff more from a structure and conceptual perspective and i think it is a good addition to everything else i use in my trading.
Lol...trading is a funny game and is my passion. I am just happy it is not easy
@nopac, I agree that they should honor their commitment to trade a live account.
However, I am surprised that you are citing vagueness as having something to do with being a real trader. I have never been convinced that any vendor can actually trade, except for 2. Awaits and Ziad say things that, as someone who trades myself, convince me that they actually are traders. That being said, that's just my opinion and only live trade calls prove that someone took a trade, so that would be cool to see.
I have paid nothing to OpenTrader but I have learned quite a few things from their videos. In fact, I learned something from them about a year ago that I credit with being a major turning point in my trading. I don't recommend anyone to buy it without watching their free videos of course. They do not promise magic.
I think the attitude of the individual paying for trading education is as important to the equation as the education itself. So many people want answers, but we need to realize that there are no answers, in the way most people want them. There are only insights. The rest is completely up to us. With those expectations, especially with a group that makes no claim that trading is easy and also offers a money back guarantee, it's hard to imagine being too disappointed.
Nopac, what specifically convinces you that A & Z do not trade? I get a very different impression, as a trader myself.
You can tell by the way they talk they don't make any money in the mkt. Being a trader and actually making money are two divergent things.
Just because you "learn" something from them, doesn't mean your not learning nonsense. There exists a series of logical solutions to a given problem, the mere absence of nonsense does not mean its the truth... ( think about that one)
Seriously drawing a load of lines on high volume and low volume points LOL. If people actually sat down and thought what trading really is.
Either that OR they can post some statements. IT IS THAT SIMPLE............
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My comments on opentrader was my experience which is very positive. It is not a recommendation or advice to anyone to take their courses. People need to do due diligence before doing anything & they offer money back. My views and comments only apply to me. My views on trading are totally different. It's my passion in life...i dont necessarily think about things to improve my trading in terms of money....but thats just me
But i agree if they have said they would show statements....then probably they should honor it. Am hoping that is the case & they would. I can understand some of these are easier said than done due to many formalities at the backend.
Anyways ...the thread was all about webinars from opentrader at futures.io (formerly BMT) & not necessarily taking any of their courses.
I think webinars are a no brainer if they happen on futures.io (formerly BMT). If you dont like the content...move on like all and any webinar on futures.io (formerly BMT).
Can you be more specific? How would they talk if they did make money? Would they even talk? Do you make money, and if so, how do you "talk"?
Let me rephrase it: I learned something from watching their free videos, that I directly applied in my trading, which is now making a very big positive difference in my bottom line trading results (P/L). Note the references to "me" -- the same piece of information may not positively affect others in the same way it did me.
Your use of the word "truth" is interesting--please do tell, what is "truth" in trading? It seems you misunderstand trading, if you are convinced that there is a truth in it. You may state truths about markets, but as for trading, by definition there are really few, if any, truths.
Definitely, drawing lines on a chart is not trading. But that does not mean that understanding the significance of something that is not trading may not have in itself a very large impact on trading itself.
You may assume that the absence of statements implies something about their profibility. And I have no counter that says "yes, they are actually trading." In fact, I tend to assume initially that no one is actually trading for real, particularly vendors; else, why would they be "vending"? So, it may surprise you to find that I am equally skeptical. Personally, I would never do business with any vendor who will not show through live trade calls that they are taking trades they are claiming. But hopefully you are not so gullible as to think that brokerage statements prove anything? Do you not realize how easy it is to play that game, to fake stuff like that?
I find the whole discussion a bit amusing really, because all that matters is whether information positively impacts someone's end results. Copying a "guru" or someone's trading methodology entirely--now that is a case where someone wants to know the bottom line results for sure! But traders who make money don't copy other traders entirely anyway; so who cares? Learning and growing is necessary in this ever-changing world, and if something you learn helps, who cares where it comes from?
Last edited by josh; July 28th, 2013 at 10:39 PM.
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Because of your consider reply Josh. I will tell you the "truth"
1. When open trader started it was about being transparent, you could link to your broker show your pnl then sell your "eduction". there was a guy on there James Meehan he is still on twitter, Jtrade or something. There is a good post about it here.
2. People that i know that actually make money BS aside use the most basic charts feel the flow and talk about people. NOT support, high volume node etc.
3. The only people i have ever seen in the public domain prove that they make money are don miller, this james guy and the NOBS guy. They all have a behavioural narrative and are more focused on the the flow of the mkt than technical BS.
4. If you want to learn about the "mkt" your time is much better spent reading philosophy ( seriously).