Stray Dog, respectfully is it got, it is got a dozen times over.
People are just ignoring the point to wind you TS posting guys up or they think about it and cannot answer to themselves who watches the watchman? Mike has to make a subjective judgement call based on his personal experience but you don't trust this, Emmett makes a call of some kind, but he is not acceptable to many.
Who can Emmett and Mike (or anyone in trading) have independently verify this "proof" from vendor XYZ? And of course not me. Emmett has reviews to write and sorely needs greater legitimacy, Mike has webinars to post.
How can it be done in practical terms that are legally and ethically sound, acceptable to all people? Regular re-checks would be required, time is money. US regulators are often painfully slow, can the CTFC take this role? How to lobby/fund?
Maybe start an appropriate thread? You can then block me immediately if you wish
Please don't pivot though? It is not much to ask if this is a real discussion.
Edit: Insta-pivot. The constant pivoting to another angle does nothing to broaden the discussion. @Stray Dog, you paid your dollars to be here (as it were) and can see who is who in the Elite areas so have a good view. What do you think?
Nobody is seriously defending that point, *straw man. Please, furnish what proof (that cannot be faked) to who? Take it the next logical step with details.
Edit2: @IzhakHaim I am not sure how to read what you posted before however I make live calls/suggestions when I am confident I'm not going to hurt beginner accounts with drawdown. I made a big one just today but in an Elite thread where I hang out with my friends. We chat, it is a friendly place.
*"Debaters invoke a straw man when they put forth an argument—usually something extreme or easy to argue against—that they know their opponent doesn't support. You put forth a straw man because you know it will be easy for you to knock down or discredit. It's a way of misrepresenting your opponent's position."
Last edited by Rory; November 29th, 2016 at 04:37 AM.
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The question is this: Doesn't anyone thinking about joining a trading room have a right to know if the person running the room is trading successfully themselves? Do they have a right to ask for proof? Account statements, trade records, etc? Yes they do. Does the room owner have a right to decline? Yes. But why would they if they were successful? It's that simple.
An innocent 10 year old kid can ask for proof from Al or any vendor (as opposed to a former con himself that 'can't be trusted'). It doesn't matter who is asking the question. Either they well do it or they won't. And if they don't, then you have legitimate right to question the honesty and veracity of their claims. Either put up or shut up.
I bet there aren't 1 out of 1000 rooms out there that trade successfully so you could make a living by being in their room. And with the claims most of them make, that makes most of them outright dishonest. Doesn't matter how nice a guy they are, how much you like their books or teaching, etc. This industry has to be one of the most dishonest and least transparent on the internet. And if you don't think so, then you haven't been around the block and burned enough yet. And if you don't think so, just ask for proof of success.
While anyone would defend a vendor that wouldn't furnish proof of their success if they are claiming to be a successful trader is beyond me. It really is mind boggling.
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I have had a hard time following this thread and wasn't sure if your question was hypothetical until that post so,
Proof that cannot be faked
Record trading screen.
Show DOM to show the trades are live and occurring in the actual market.
Show time and date.
At the start of the recording, show yesterdays brokerage statement for additional transparency.
During the recording, show that it's live within your platform for additional transparency.
This is very easy to do, I do it myself, not sure if it's a generational thing but this it's really common to record your screens because of gaming.
Stream it live to YouTube.
Anybody who wants to can access the recordings, live or afterwards on YouTube.
This would show that somebody trades the methodology they are selling, trades live and their profit and loss.
If Al Brooks live streamed himself in this manner, scalping the ES with 20-30 trades and sometimes having no losing trades (as he claims he often does) and showed the brokerage statement the next day in the morning I wouldn't have any doubts myself that he is an amazing trader.
I know two traders who show their live trading on YouTube, one even shows their brokerage statements.
It's only an idea, it might have flaws that I've missed.
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Thanks for that. Everyone has a hard time getting to grasp with this thread, it is one of those "circular firing squads" IMHO but loops can be closed. The TS thread on this is huge also(harder to read as the posts are not simply ordered).
I believe this discussion should have a thread.
We can discuss the vendors who do it right, you know some you said. Clearly a clever (bad) vendor will up his game to defeat the proof system and gain even more trust from the unwary we know that. However maybe if we put our heads together we can help weary beginners and break this thread loop.
Any suggestions on the name for the thread? I believe as @emini2000 and @Stray Dog have shown a strong interest in the matter their opinions are important.
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This is my general take on trading education/rooms al brooks included.
First of all, almost all educators are outright scams, or traders that can't make it trading and have turned to education for a living. So finding someone real is very difficult and mostly happens through relationships or being involved in the trading community like this one being interactive with each other and maybe someone successful will take you under his/her wing.
Most traders who have been in the game for awhile realize there is no room to join that you can piggyback their trades and be succesfull and have stopped looking and instead look within themselves to develop or modify others strategies.So they don't really care about some educator showing their brokerage statements, they are not interested anyways.
The novice traders are still looking for the holy grail in rooms and are willing to spend money looking. No one will show you their brokerage statements. The faster a novice realizes their money is best spent by not spending and by reading all the free stuff you can on places like here and looking at journals of other traders and maybe trying something like that on sim and watching the market and doing homework everyday. keeping a journal of your sim trades, seeing what works and what doesn't,maybe you will figure something out.
Trading is journey,not a race, preserve capital, and when you have something statistically working for you with enough sample size, put that money you save to work and go for it, always watching risk. Because just having a statistical advantage is not enough, now you have to have the physcological understanding to make it work.
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With due respect and your points are fair, you can see this thread started with an Al Brooks review and got badly off topic. People just do not read back and add more entries, the page moves on, it grows due to a forum loop.
This does not happen in the elite section as people know each other better.
Can we move to a new (non-elite) thread in the vendor section?
repeating: Any suggestions on the name for the thread? I believe as @emini2000 and @Stray Dog have shown a strong interest in the matter their opinions are important. Of course @jodistrict and others too.
Perhaps though the challenge of meaningful, believable proof validation is demurred.
I'm a tech guy, I recon I can fake nearly anything (even live) however extremes never help. We know the more money is concentrated by the chaff schools being discarded so the more specialist the scammer will get. Monopolies are also bad. Supply/Demand balance.
I spoke to a friend (small trader) who moderates a large open forum, he said it is harder than trading sometimes and the election has everyone extra touchy. He changes the thread colour to indicate it is gone into a loop/unhealthy state.
Maybe a pic? But moderator inserted not just by everyone.
Last edited by Rory; November 30th, 2016 at 08:24 AM.
Reason: missed "so"
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