My contribution to this thread was more about the individual taking a larger responsibility towards their own trading.
I can understand the desire for vendors to disclose their performance, if this is your requirement it is a good filter for you to quickly shorten your list of acceptable sources of information.
My decision making process goes something like this;
- Presenter/vendor raises an interesting topic or concept I am unfamiliar with
- I research to see if I can find free information about said topic
- If I find free information lacking, I asses if paid materials offer reasonable value
Personally, I have never bought or subscribed to a trading system or promise, they just never passed my "why would you give away the golden goose" test. But I have always been happy to purchase books or videos at reasonable cost, sure there has been some quick duds, but some gold in there too. That is my responsibility to test and validate the information they offer.
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I hear you man. I went to the pharmacy today and spent $300 on homeopathic "medicine" storing up for the winter. True, the FTC has just required "a declaration of the presence or absence of scientific proof for the claims made on each product."
But I say, what does a government agency know? Whether it works for me or others is irrelevant to me, I just like to take pills.
Just pulling your leg, man. I blew the $300 on lottery tickets....It is such an insignificant amount of money...
Last edited by Pedro40; November 23rd, 2016 at 11:21 PM.
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The equation is based on the individuals valuation. I wanted to learn, he provided information.
My requirements were not; "I need a trading system that can make me XXpnts a day in the ES", but that i wanted information about price action trading.
I advocate responsibility of the trader to verify profitability of a trading idea or concept. Profitable edges can be found in surprising places, and sometimes a left field concept can generate an idea worth testing.
I worked through all of Al's concepts and spent 50+ hrs testing in python and excel, found somethings useful others not so much.
So was $300 for 60+ hrs of video insignificant? yes it was.
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If you buy a performance tracking software you will know in a very short order of time if it delivers what it promises. If it does not do what the company stated it does, you will be calling that vendor and getting technical support to fix the problem or demanding your money back. Otherwise you will post how the product does not work and others will post the same and that company will quickly be out of business.
But the Trading Rooms / Vendors model is unlike any other business I am aware of. Literally making outlandish claims of success while providing no proof to back up any of their claims. Telling you for example, you will make a living off some small account by scalping ES futures off a 5 minute chart.
Then when you spend years and thousands of hours and lose thousands of dollars following their method, you are told the fault is yours. Look at all the failed journals here and the Rock Stars ones can also never show any proof of their claims. This should tell a WISE person something. You just have to listen.
I am going to say something you will never hear from any vendor or from anyone else that I have seen. When you fail at this or any of the other vendors promising pure fantasy and crawl under a rock and think you are just too dumb to get it.
YOU ARE NOT!!!!! It was never about you and your ability to get it. Just like it was not the fault of Bernie Madoff investors. You were scammed!! Pure and simple. The vendor sold you a method that neither he nor anyone else can trade profitable.
In any other business, business owners are proud to show you their work and proof of their claims. But not in this one. If a vendor could truly do what they claim they would gladly show proof and guess what. That vendor would have more business than he knows what to do with.
Lastly keep in mind, some of these trading rooms are raking in millions. They have an incentive to make up a bunch of user names and post fake reviews. That is so easy. What is hard is showing any proof of their claims, which is why I and a few brave others are finally calling them out on it. And guess what I have zero doubt we will never get it. That speaks volumes. And look at the post here. For simple demanding this and other vendors actually show proof of their claims, we are blasted or banned.
Just look at this industry. Dean Handley promotes Open Range Trader as a Trading Titan, yet the investigators finally come in and found he does not trade at all and his track record was completely made up. NT promoting sideways market (also busted by the regulators) and doing no vetting what so ever.
Some people hate Emmett and he sure is no role model, but he is the first one I am aware of that actually went out and asked these vendors to show proof of their claims. I remember one review where he finally just asked the Trading Room to just show 1 day where they traded live and they could not even do that.
It is time to take a stand and clean up this very corrupt industry.
Last edited by arafg; November 24th, 2016 at 03:17 PM.
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If one believes following vendor can lead to consistent profitability from the first place, one might actually be too dumb to get it.
Its always good if you follow some vendors for the purpose of stimulating ideas or perspectives (or learn the basics as a new trader). But if the intent was ever to follow their method to achieve success, you are doomed to fail. And you are deserved to get "scammed".
Questioning any vendor's creditablity is juz finding excuses for your own failure.
In 2 mins this is a list of similar businesses:
Certain Organ enlargement solutions
Homeopathists / other alternative medicines
'How to be a' in 6 weeks
If i had a tabloid (cheap uk newspaper, though even broadsheets plug them) to hand i could name you 10 more.