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Jaguar trading club (protradered.blogspot.com) w/Ed Abreu
Has anyone signed up for the "mentor program ($3,500)" or even done the "acid test" and produced the same results as this guy? I've noticed the blogs the users have created are either very old or don't make the same results as this guy. From what I've heard about this guy from other people in the room is he don't follow his own system.
Can you help answer these questions from other members on NexusFi?
Looking back I wish I had known the value of spending the first year building positive statistics from the strategies and setups I was learning. Instead, I spent maybe a month or two learning setups and then went into the live market with my account. …
From the last recent news, I think he had announced he was retiring soon, so it could be a moot point now.
Actually, you are right. I don't have a system. I cannot tell you what I do here in this forum, and I cannot tell you what to do. Yes, some of those club member blogs are old. Some are current and maintained as the guys go through some training. They are all in sim. You won't see anyone posting their cash results who is training with me. I can't tell you why here. I can't tell you much of anything here about what I do because of the vendor restrictions.
However, I can offer this piece of counsel. Do not take anyone's word or advice about anything concerning this business, including mine, unless you have done your own research. If you start out being brain lazy and do not do a significant amount of personal due diligence about this business then you will have a long, hard, difficult, and costly time of it.
Jaguar...since you have had a trading room for a while what do you think or know what is the % of traders that took you training have/had become traders that are profitable?
What makes your 3K or 3.5K cost worth it-I guess what seperates you from others that charge the same.
When you trade do people see your entries and exits, or trades just talked about? Not trying to be sarcastic just asking real questions on what is worth the $$ of what you teach.
How much is your room open, ie M-F, as an example.
I'm a member of the club and can offer my opinion. I have not been successful at this despite many months of hard work (haven't given up though), so take my comments with that in mind.
As with anything, there is good and bad.
First the good:
Ed is a really nice guy and will spend as much time with you as you request. The one-on-one sessions with him are arguably the best part of the course. As he says, what you're are paying for is his time and he doesn't hold back on that.
He shows, day after day, that it really is possible to scalp successfully.
He posts his results every day so you can always look at his trades and try to figure out what he did.
His way of trading is very simple - not to be confused with easy.
You can trade live sim in the room (mic work) and Ed will watch you trade and comment on it. This is valuable.
You have a microphone while in the room and can ask questions. No typing into a chat box (although you can if you want). This is very nice.
Membership in the course provides you with many recorded one-one-one sessions, maybe hundreds of hours worth. These are interesting at times, but quite redundant. You will have to sit through a lot of commentary to find some new ideas or comments that have meaning for you.
On the down side:
If you're like most people, the word 'course' means something specific to you. There is no course like that. There is no reading material other than some ancient PDF's that he provides but are really more confusing than helpful. Part of the course is sending in marked up charts showing your read of S/R. The very few times you do this, you're likely to receive very superficial comments, if any. More than likely, he'll just say they look good and then you're done with sending in charts (my experience along with 1 other). There is nothing stopping you from submitting more charts and asking specific questions, but my experience is that the answers are vague.
You need to be very proactive. Ed will likely never contact you to see how you're doing, even if you have a blog. For example, he will not review your blog, see that you're stuggling, then contact you to see what you're stuggling with. This has been my experience, along with 2 other students I know.
His method is very simple: trade long from support and short from resistance. However it is up to you to decide what is S/R. If you cannot do this, you can't trade his method. Ed does have some excersizes that he wants you to do to help with identifying S/R and order flow. I've spent many, many hours doing this, but success still eludes me.
Ed is a master at what he does and sees things clearly. I believe his goal is to help you to see things as he does and trade successfully. That said, comparing him to the many teachers I've had in my life pursuing 2 college degrees, for me (and me only), I think he's an ineffective teacher. This could be because I'm expecting something different, like a teacher of a college course, or maybe I'm not cut out for this style of trading. I've considered that.
My recommendation to you is to subscribe to his monthly service and sit in the room for as long as you like. You might be able to ask questions as a non-member, but I'm not sure. You should also watch the many hours of video that he provides on his site. The recorded one-on-one sessions are not much different from those, there's just a lot of them.
If you are looking for a bunch of setups to trade, you will be disappointed. There are no setups. If you're a pattern monkey like me, you will have a hard time of it. This method is something different.
Between his room and the free videos, and a lot of hard work on your part, you will be able to decide for yourself whether full membership in the club is worth it. If you think ponying up $3,500 is going to make you a profitable trader in a few months, you are deluding yourself.
Am I a happy, satisfied customer? Do I have any regrets? Well, no regrets, but not happy either. This is completely on me and my inability to make this work. However, I am not giving up.
Reading Order Flow Using Range Bars. KISS THIS!
“Nicolellis range bars were developed in the mid 1990s by Vicente Nicolellis, a Brazilian trader and broker who spent over a decade running a trading desk in Sao Paulo. The local markets at the time were very volatile, and Nicolellis became interested in developing a way to use the volatility to his advantage.”
Characteristics of range bars:
1- Range bars can defined in a specific price spread.
2- Range bars can only open outside the range of the previous bar.
3- Range bars can open anywhere in the bar, but can only close at the high of low of the defined range.
4- Range bars present price in a defined spread without time.
Range bars define volatility or market movement. More movement more bars, less movement less bars. All of the above can be researched further on the internet, but for our purposes this is all we need to know.
I have discovered that a few other characteristics of range bars have been glossed over mostly because for many they have been taught that small ranges of price movement equals chop and we should not trade chop. We have been taught that only 3:1 ratios will make money, and anything else is not sustainable. Face it, the information out there just does not apply to intra-day futures trading for retail traders funding levels and risk allowance.
Another feature of range bars that is also unique is that they are a visual representation of the time and sales window, aka the tape; much like the old ticker tape bubble machine from pre-modern computer technology. The spread of your arms was the price range you could track.
Range bars present price without time. They measure volatility. Each bar represents a defined price spread. The larger the defined range or price spread the more price will have moved from the open of the bar to the close of the bar. A 3 range defined bar represents 3 price points. A new bar opens only after price has traded beyond its defined range. A range bar can open anywhere, but it can only close at one end or the other of the defined range.
The speed of the orders hitting the bid or the offer and the speed at which the orders are being filled is a measure of the volatility present in the market for the defined range, or price spread, we are tracking. The sequential open and closing of the range bars without overlapping is also a measure of the volatility. More volatility will produce more bars. When price is in balance then range bars will move sideways as price trades within a defined range. If we define a 3 range bar, then there could be a series of bars side by side with the open of each bar 1 tick higher than the close of the previous bar and then a series of bars 1 tick lower than the previous bars. Even though we may have defined a 3 point price spread or range bar, any sideways movement of price can be defined by the expanding and contracting of slightly overlapping range bars. If we defined a 3 range bar, then this sideways movement is not tradable. If we defined a 15 range bar, then this range is tradable even if the bars are going sideways. When the demand, (buyers), or suppliers (sellers), are dominant then you will see a series of range bars moving in one direction for a sustained move. When buyers or sellers are trying to muscle each other for dominance and neither side is willing to capitulate, then you will see range bars moving in a general direction for an extended move. This difference is represented visually by the range bar charts structure.
As a range bar builds, or price trades in the defined range, volume can increase or not increase. For every trade there is a buyer and a seller. As the contract is traded, one contract enters the market and one contract exits the market. If price trades on the offer and volume increases then a new contract enters the market. If price trades on the bid, then one contract exited the market. When watching volume increase on the up ticking of a range bar then we are looking at orders being filled on the offer. If on the uptick of the range bar we do not see an increase in volume then price traded on the bid as one contract left the market. When watching the speed of the range bar build we can see how fast orders are being filled on the bid or the offer. If orders are being filled on the upticks of a range bar and volume is increasing then we would expect the bar to close up, and continue up as price trades beyond the defined range. If the next bar closes down, then we can take note that on the open of the new bar something significant happened and at that moment we can see that the flow of control shifted.
Range bars present a micro view of order flow in a visual manner. In futures intraday trading many trading theories and concepts do not apply. Intraday futures trading is its own animal.
The futures market is a dynamic place. It was designed to facilitate a means to speculate on a future value of a commodity or to speculate on the value of a group of commodities, or an index. Without volatility or movement no money can be made. Interest is taken by buyers and sellers speculating on the fair value of the instrument. The point where this interest was manifested is recognizable if looking at range bar charts. It is difficult to see otherwise. What is not apparent is whether the interest at the same price point is still valid 2 minutes or 2 hours from now. When tracking this dynamic support of a price level or this dynamic rejection of a price level we get a clue as to what may or may not happen should price return to this level 2 minutes from now or 2 hours from now. Watching the manner in which the trading range is moving and watching the speed of the range trade, expand and contract, and noting the volume manifested as the price range completes its exchanges can help us to speculate on the possible reactions at the previously defined dynamic S&R level. Given the limited but precise amount of information we need to absorb and consider, we can make a well informed decision to enter into a position, exit a position, or just stay out. As with everything in the market, price can be manipulated and more than likely, most often is. The DOM can and often is stacked, ice burg orders exist and wreak havoc, and larger traders muscle smaller traders into submission. There is no guarantee that even if you become the greatest tape reader in the world that you are going to have continuous successful profitable trades. So, there you have it. The totality of what I do to trade the way I do, in a nutshell. Good luck with it.
I do not sell indicators, systems, auto-traders, magic formulas, or secret information.
You have paid to watch me trade, pick my brain, watch old recordings of my own progress over the years trading and what I have learned. You have paid to watch recorded sessions of others who are going through a similar learning curve. You have paid for my coaching you along your own learning curve for a small fee (mommy did not raise a fool). I willingly supply the totality of what I have learned (to date) over the years trading in an outlined progressive format for anyone to learn. Your own progress is measured by meeting specific performance milestones. If you cannot swim the length of the pool you do not get on the swimming team. It's that simple. You can try a smaller pool, or another team; but this team is not for you. Sorry, but that is the harsh reality of this. Doesn't mean you cannot trade, just means that you cannot trade this way. But, please don't give up. Ask more questions. Watch those 1:1 recordings of others. Get on mic work and let me watch you trade and hear your analysis in real time. I don't care what indicators you use or what system you use. If standing upside down in your red underwear with your left thumb up your butt enables you to trade well, then by all means, do it. But in the immortal words of Mr. Spank, how's that been working for you? So finally, yes, it is a lot of work for some, and for others it will be impossible. But for yet others... bingo! So, you just need to decide which are you? Thanks ... I think? um...many months? Buddy, it takes 6 months to just get through the information from the last 10 years of my trading as per the outline. And what is the strangest thing of all is that all the information is out there, except you have to put the pieces together yourself. What?! You think I made all this stuff up myself? This forum has most all of what you need. You have to do the work yourself. No one can do it for you.
It is like the clouds. We see them, we agree they are clouds, but the cloud I am looking at is an elephant. What is it to you? Describe it.
Not everyone is going to get it. The number of successful traders (those making some money, not losing more than they make) out of the 70 students in 7 years is 6. Only 1 member a year ever goes all the way through the course (which is clearly outlined) and gets a passing grade from me. The actual live cash market gives them their final exam, but I am there to hold your hand the first 3 months. Out of those 6, there have been 3 great traders. One is about to give his first years summary. Yes, this is also all my fault.
Anyone reading this, if there is one thing u take away from all this junk it is this thought. Do not take anyone's word for anything in this business. Not mine, not anyone's from anywhere. Learn to see. Trade what you see.
Oh, and take full responsibility for your results.
Oh, and safeguard your edge!
My friend, 90% of it is all in your head. You cannot buy a fix.
Ed your response is very hard to read in this forum. Long sentences, very few paragraphs or spacing. Maybe it's my browser (Firefox) that makes it difficult to read. But I did not think that the kiss my butt comment (even if about range bars or order flow) was a good way to start a conversation with someone who it appears tried to write an honest appraisal of his experience with your system. So you may have a ton of good nuggets in your message, but I missed them for the reasons above.
Kiss ... As in Keep it Surprisingly Simple (polite interpretation) is an acronym for simplicity in trading. I have no problem with the review, opinions, or comments of others. Please, comment on. You are free to re-arrange my paragraphs. You will have to learn that skill in trading... Rearrange the information you gather into an understandable format that is useful to you, or sit back and be convinced and sold into something.
I am getting cantankerous in my old age! Parsnipitty too!
I'm proud to be a member of the club. I haven't been greatly successful but it has nothing to do with Ed, it has everything to do with me not putting in the work but Ed hasn't and won't give up on the club members. Even if I don't hang around in the room all the time it's very helpful knowing I have support and help there. My 2 cents.
