I've been trading with their approach now for 5 months and its very solid. The teaching is very straightforward and conceptually sound. Its not just a matter of "here's what you do" but a lot of discussion on "why you do it". The approach ends up changing not just your trading style but also the way you think about markets.
The chat room and live trade room is very active. A very good community has been built up to this point. Lots of discussions and members help each other out a lot. And this is important because the training isn't a matter of two weeks and you can now trade professionally ... its a process. It takes screen time to fully understand and refine your ability to look at the market via order flow. And having the support from other traders makes building that screen-time much easier and more pleasant.
If you wanted to learn more, you can always ask to speak to a current member and get their feedback over the phone / skype.
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On the positive side, the moderator does make money just about every day. The OFE team is also very dedicated to teaching its method to its members and has regular workshops for this purpose. Without a doubt, these guys have a solid method that seems to work for them and for some of their members (if you work it and buy into the method).
On the other hand, from my perspective, the method has very little to do with order flow (despite the name of the site) as most advanced traders define order flow. Rather than reading time and sales or the order book, what they are doing is reading cumulative delta and putting assumptions on the commitment of traders based upon the aggregate of the orders. While I have tried very hard to understand and buy into this method, my experience with reading cumulative delta is that major turning points in the market are evidenced by over-comittments of traders at the extremes. If you read cumulative delta as showing commitment of traders, this is misleading, since what it often shows is where committed traders get trapped and overwhelmed by passive resting limit orders which then take control of the market. This is a concept that Kam Dhadwar of L2ST has very clearly set forth in his methology.
OFE's order flow terminology is largely borrowed from Fulcrum Trader, with emphasis on buying and and shorting wholesale (rather than retail) which I always found to be a poor analogy, since price of an instrument is constantly changing and not fixed. Because the zones are dynamic (and based upon market profile levels), it is virtually impossible to back test this methodology. Technical traders may have a very hard time with this methodology. In addition, for the most part, members are on their own when it comes to picking entries and exits. While the moderator suggests different strategies for entry and exit, he lets each trader decide when and where to taken on the market. Emphasis is on the ES (S&PP 500) and although the moderator talks about swing trades in other markets, I have never seen any meaningful discussion or development of trades in any other markets.
Their motto is "we are order flow traders, first and foremost." While this may be true, without a doubt, selling new memberships is a huge part of their business, and 3 out of 5 days of every trading week are devoted to trial member demonstrations, which are essentially infomercials which the members have to endure during the morning session (from 9:30 to 11:00 am, Tues, Wed, Thurs).
The method appears to work for some members. However, I am still trying to trade it profitably. Personally, I prefer purely technical methods (which can be back-tested and subjected to statistical analysis) to work better for my trading goals and needs.
And even after going through their workshops, I still feel like I know nothing about real order flow (ie. reading time and sales and the order book, the DOM, etc.).
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i agree with the last speaker 100%. its a pity that tradergirl's room is on recess or sabatical , but definitely if she is on the desk, would sent a screenshot over to her to check if red/green lines are camouflaged mp levels. i want to bet my used car their levels r tuned up mp levels and the whole order flow is some customised graphic rendition of the delta. i think with ninja replay data and gomi, one can pretty easily replay the data and see if gomi spits out same selling / buying pressures.
definitly his urge to sell the damn thing, rather than pocket house money through trading size, is worrisome. is selling the system a 'get-rich-steadily' formula on the part of the head trader.
one of my pals is waiting for ninja version of the indies, which we can use to run charts side by side with ofe indies and mp levels to see whether its worth wiring a 1500 to the spineless head trader.
definitely a good salesman with a pretty average system
OFE definitely uses Market Profile. That's what the value areas are based upon. I think that this is the most solid aspect of the system. The part that makes no sense is how they use cumulative delta to gauge commitment of longs or shorts, and/or to show when all the longs/shorts have "capitulated" because the cum delt has retraced back to some previous level. Most traders that actually trade order flow will tell you that cumulative delta does not necessarily reflect commitment of traders because the cumulative orders usually get absorbed at extremes by massive resting limit orders and the committed traders turn into "trapped" traders who will soon be bailing. What is also erroneous about the moderator's theory is that he says that the "smart" money is only trading at "wholesale" values (which are usually defined at extremes or retracements to previous levels, rather than inside of an up trend or down trend. Anyone who takes a look at cumulative delta on a 1 minute chart of the ES during a strong trending day can see the bursts of thousands of initiating contracts in the trend direction. The moderator says that this is just traders on the wrong side covering their losing positions. I think this is complete BS, but then again, its just my opinion and my way of seeing market driven order flow. But, to OFE's credit, without a doubt, some of these folks do make money trading the OFE system, for sure. I just wonder...what the real stats are, and how many of the actual members are able to make the system work for them and make money over time.
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Thanx. I think big mike should get a noble price for savings us thousands of dollars by avoiding buying some stuff out there. Sure ofe markets mp levels to the sheep out there. Willing to part with 1500. I still would Wa t to cross with my tgtradergirl. My concern is whether he uses a dev value area or so
E past roc no or something exotic. These crap about checking inventory imbalance is also same noise coming from eminitradingschool. I agree despite his poor judgement on the cumdelta this thing still makes lots of money for traders out there.
I re read your earlier posts and somehow I feel that both of seem to be groping in the dark find a solid orer flow method. I have do e tgtradergirl, futures71, futuresfx and ttz. I our purchased all of them hence my reluctance to add ofe to the arsenal. Sure tg pulls out couple of pts each day but the gal close her roo
For now. I think if we put heads together we could ourselves work out something solid.
Now does ofe indies work on ninjatrader. Could o e check fbm out with replaydata. I think with gomiladder we could retrace the levels and cum delta performance.
Also your idea of overcommitment at extremes could also be check wig volume spread analysis.
I signed up for a trial a couple of months back, and they were sending me 1-2 emails a day with testimonials, special offers, links to live trade room, etc. They try to sell you their education in a very insistent manner. I also received videos showing their live trades. However, it seemed to me as if they were getting filled on their limit orders immediately when price ticked at their level. If they had a limit buy order, as soon as price came down and traded on the bid, they were filled. So that made me think they might be live trading on a sim account. Their zones were like a point appart from each other, there were zones everywhere. That is what I saw in the couple of times I went into their room.