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Jigsaw Trading & RapidTraderPro, www.jigsawtrading.com
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Jigsaw Trading & RapidTraderPro, www.jigsawtrading.com

  #61 (permalink)
Elite Member
Tampa, FL
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Favorite Futures: 6E, M6E, 6J
 
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Posts: 1,374 since Dec 2011
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DionysusToast View Post
sigh.....

3 purchase options....

1 - buy the product with no live trading
2 - buy the product with live trading - monthly or annually

whatever you do - you can get a refund

2 trial options
1 - go thru the website and pay
2 - send me an email/skype message and don't pay

It's not rocket science. You can assume all you want about INTENT but this is simply your OPINION and no matter how often you repeat that my intentions are to rip people off, it still remains an opinion.

You want to twist the above into me intending to rip people off and that is way off mark. That is fact, not opinion.

I can attest to these options. I sent Pete a PM and he hooked me up with a trial no questions asked. After 1 week of the trial, I purchased the tools. Pete has even given me and another coder with similar tools to his a free trial....AND both of us own the tools. When you give coders free trials AND they purchase your tools, you have a great set of tools.

I consider myself anti-vendor, because I believe you can get most tools available out there for free or code them yourself. However, I am willing to spend money on quality products. These are the only tools I have ever purchased because the quality was top notch and I was instantly hooked on D&S.

London Calling
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  #62 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bangkok
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts.NET, S5, Ninj
Broker/Data: AMP, S5, IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
DionysusToast's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,381 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 725 given, 7,212 received
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Ninja Machine ids are not very unique. They look unique but the 3rd party licensing option in Ninja help menu exists because the machine id's are not very unique. It effectively lets you append text to the id to make it more unique.

Out of the box Ninja licensing app only allows 1 trial per machine id.

So - if you allow a simple download link from your site, after a while, many of those that download it get "trial expired" messages because someone else with a duplicate machine id has done a trial. Ninja license servers think it's the same person.

In the end, you have to register every trial manually. At that point, you want to limit the trials to those that are serious.

So - apart from the fact that making them downloadable to anyone is as good as putting the files on piratebay, you end up with overhead per trial.

Admittedly - way after Jigsaw stopped free trials for obvious reasons (we are evil), we also stopped using Ninja machine ids.

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  #63 (permalink)
The Narrow Road
Belgium
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker/Data: Ninjatrader Brokerage, CQG
Favorite Futures: FDAX, FDXM ...maybe
 
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Posts: 379 since Sep 2012
Thanks: 443 given, 455 received

Quick Demo


@Silvester17 ... and other Jigsaw customers.

Can any of you guys do a quick demo of how you use the Jigsaw products?

Staring at the Ninjatrader DOM makes most people seasick .. so the Jigsaw SuperDuperDOM ( tm @podski :-) ) would be positively dangerous.

However given the intro this week to OFA and clearly an increase in interest in the whole area ... a small demo might be in order ?

What do you think ? Can you pull something together without giving away the crown jewels ?

regards

podski

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  #64 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Columbus, OH
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NT 8, TOS
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podski View Post
@Silvester17 ... and other Jigsaw customers.

Can any of you guys do a quick demo of how you use the Jigsaw products?

Staring at the Ninjatrader DOM makes most people seasick .. so the Jigsaw SuperDuperDOM ( tm @podski :-) ) would be positively dangerous.

However given the intro this week to OFA and clearly an increase in interest in the whole area ... a small demo might be in order ?

What do you think ? Can you pull something together without giving away the crown jewels ?

regards

podski

@podski

I'm sorry, but I don't use any jigsaw products. never even did a trial.

but maybe this video from @DinosaurToast will help you.

https://futures.io/traders-hideout/10912-tape-my-shape-tape-reading-time-sales-70.html#post287534

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  #65 (permalink)
Elite Member
GER
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: MC
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 144 since May 2011
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Futures Edge on FIO

Which products do you trade?

 
@dinosaurToast,

i have a more general question. There are now a lot of orderbook and orderflow systems and tools for Ninja and other platforms available but as far as i know none comes with an automatic entry and exit signal.
All courses and tools have more or less clear rules, but the last step to full automation and backtesting is not done by all vendors. The user is left to its own capabilities.

Is there a reason for this ? Do the markets change their behaviour to fast in order to receive a constant performance?

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  #66 (permalink)
Freemason
Chicago, IL
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: oil super computer
Favorite Futures: multiple
 
Posts: 193 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 595 given, 191 received


Silvester17 View Post
@podski

I'm sorry, but I don't use any jigsaw products. never even did a trial.

but maybe this video from @DinosaurToast will help you.

https://futures.io/traders-hideout/10912-tape-my-shape-tape-reading-time-sales-70.html#post287534

What is Dinosaurtoast any ways thinking it would probably get moldy after a while.

I have not yet tried his product but judging by the people that do it is of very high quality. What I can review however is the free videos he has on his site and the 3 part series he did for topsteptrader. I found these to be very informative and worthwhile.

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  #67 (permalink)
Elite Member
Tampa, FL
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart
Broker/Data: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
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Xav1029's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,374 since Dec 2011
Thanks: 1,452 given, 3,338 received

3 Part Intro

Here is the 3 part intro into Order Flow Pete did for TST. He answers why there aren't "signal" type order flow tools in one of these. Great intro.

https://futures.io/beginners-introductions/23361-introductory-trading-videos-2.html#post295948

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  #68 (permalink)
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Moderator Note


Jack22 has been banned for 30-days. I warned him to move on out of this thread after he made his point but continued attacking over and over, he ignored me. So now I am making him move on for 30-days.




Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
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  #69 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bangkok
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MultiCharts.NET, S5, Ninj
Broker/Data: AMP, S5, IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
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Posts: 2,381 since Nov 2010
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SPMC View Post
@dinosaurToast,

i have a more general question. There are now a lot of orderbook and orderflow systems and tools for Ninja and other platforms available but as far as i know none comes with an automatic entry and exit signal.
All courses and tools have more or less clear rules, but the last step to full automation and backtesting is not done by all vendors. The user is left to its own capabilities.

Is there a reason for this ? Do the markets change their behaviour to fast in order to receive a constant performance?

I actually like the new name!

I am sure there must be some software with signals, I think Sceeto has signals but I could be wrong. My apologies to them if I am.

I think the reason you don't generally see signals is because the tools are for discretionary traders. Order flow is more about getting a read on where the commitment is.

Reading order flow can be one of 2 things:
1 - Icing on your cake.
So your cake is a method of identifying entry/exit points in the market and the icing is using order flow to reject/refine/confirm
2 - The cake
Which is pretty much trading the order book very short term, what a lot of prop shops have their traders focus on. This is using order flow and nothing else effectively.

It's probably the complete opposite to red light/green light systems and so does not lend itself to backtesting.

In terms of coding up a system based on order flow concepts, it is fairly easy enough to do (look up SOBI, Static Order Book Imbalances) so you can test the concepts in real time. The problem is that the backtesting engines in the major retail trading platforms do not currently give you the ability to backtest with level 2 data.

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  #70 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 45,663 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 29,045 given, 80,709 received


Moderator Note


Let's please keep this thread focused on Reviews. If you have direct experience with the vendor, post your review.

This thread is not a discussion about order flow. You can contact the vendor if you have questions about his product.




Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

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