Also, with regards to vendors, I think a distinction to the products they sell need to be made. There are vendors that sell tools, and those that sell 'the dream.'
Take @RJay for example, or @richbois from TTT. They are vendors, but they aren't selling you 'the dream,' or the promise that they can turn you profitable. They simply sell you tools, and even let you try them out first for free. They aren't telling you they can teach you how to trade their discretionary system, but rather just telling you, "Hey, here are some tools I have developed, and I would like to be compensated for my time to create them, see if YOU find value in them before purchassing." To create a tool, one doesn't have to be a seasoned trader, it only requires some no-how to create the tool. Wether or not its worth purchasing is up to the customer to decide.
Then there are the vendors that tell you that they can help you turn your trading around after 15 years of failure. These are the sellers of 'methodologies.' Which I generally think is BS, they are selling you the dream. It would be interesting to see some type of thoroughly audited results of customers of these vendors. I'd be willing to bet, they've really helped no one, but rather just line their pockets with fees and subs for years, while these people they portend to teach really are in the same trading scenario when they first signed up.
The first set, the guys that just sell tools...... I think its an honest business. It's up to us as customers to decide if we see value in the tools. The tool "is-what-it-is." Either it helps you or it doesn't.
The other set of guys, simply are showing you how to organize a group of indicators on a chart. Also trying to teach a bunch of non-discrete signals based on half-guesses and subjective nonsense. Also, you don't REALLY know who these people are. You don't know if they are actual traders or not. There is never any type of audited performance, track records, live demonstrations of trading skill...... basically these vendors are saying, "TRUST ME, I am a real trader, I am not interested in proving it, but I have a website with trades listed, so I must be FOR-REAL right?"
In this day and age, it's too easy to provide customers with verifiable proof of trading ability, but that doesn't really happen. After all, why would a vendor do that and open himself up to critiscizm or scrutiny when he could just continue to get subscribers with a good sales pitch and a nice looking website?
Just a note, I'm sure there are 'some' vendors out there that really have something of value to provide. I have yet to pay for some trading methodology that I couldn't find somewhere else for free. Any indicator that one of these sellers of any given methodology provides are also pretty useless as well. Typically requiring the user to FILTER the signals anyway, at which point invalidates the system if YOU have to filter those signals..... that essentially makes it as useful as any MA x-over system.
BUT, with all the above said......... in the end, the ONLY thing that matters is that the customer feels like he is getting something of value. So if that need is met, no big problems really.
The following 12 users say Thank You to forrestang for this post:
I don't know if Beth's system is very, very good, or good, or medium or poor.
I haven't tried it.
Unless a person has tried it they shouldn't voice an opinion on how well it works - or doesn't work.
I do know that it is defamation of character and subject to liable suit to say derogatary statements about someone, their product or business without substantion.
Prosecuting attorney = P Defandent=D
P: "So you made statements that the product didn't work about the company products in a public forum geared to investors with a 20,000 membership and viewable by the Internet community at large via search engines etc reaching a potential audience of many thousands."
P: "And what tests or trials did you make of this product?"
P:"And what basis of evidence did you have to make this defamatory claim, for did you do back-testing?, forward testing, any sort of testing?"
P:"Do you have any evidence whatsoever to support your statement that "It doesn't work."?
P:"how do you know that it doesn't work perhaps even very well?"
D: "I don't."
P: "And do you realize that your statements that you have made without basis could cause material and substantial lost income to the company?"
D: "Well, I gues so."
P: "Did you at any time retract or apoligize for your damaging public statements?"
I know that in the suit of Hunter Dickson Group (a mining group) against poster at the Raging Bull they received damages of $200,000 per poster. You are not anonymous. You cannot make statements about someone or thier business without being open to potential lawsuits.
But this is not about this.
This is about people making negative comments about Beth system where they are in no position (no position of information) to do so. They wouldn't dare make the comments if they didn't know her from the board.
She has already shifted most of the indicators on the board and she has tried them.
She has made her own. She didn't steal any.
If you simply consider all that work as research then you can see that her products most likely have a better chance that the average ones (indicators for rent) than the others who are marketed by people who haven't been through the ropes and tried as many as she has.
All the indicators on the board are available for your use for free.
All the indicators at Ninja's board (there are lots!) are available for free.
Getting an indicator for free doen't mean you will start a money printing press tomorrow.
You may have been well to try her system.
Good trading to everyone.
The following user says Thank You to aquarian1 for this post:
Yes you are absolutely correct that she can defend herself and she has wisely chosen not to be in this to and fro - from which I to intend to exit.
Certainly you are correct in that the moral landscape is at issue but the title of this thread is
"EZ Color Trading - Article - wgreenie " so it is definitely about Beth. However, they did not chose to attack Multicharts, TTM, etc - nor would they.
If people want to discuss the value of indicators generally then they need to do so in a separate thread.
"Why I believe all indicators don't work -except those written by Swedes selling butter."
"Should you rent access to an indicator-based trading system? or is it cod liver oil?"
otherwise they are off-topic.
That is the whole point about being off-topic -
so expressing a personal philosophy that all indicators that are available cannot be worth anything or the person would trade it themselves and be a gazillionaire -
I haven't seen a single review posted by anyone who has tried her system and that is the whole point of the vendor review section - not general pontification or debate.
hasta la vista
Good trading to everyone.
The following 2 users say Thank You to aquarian1 for this post:
Maybe that's because people who have been participating in this forum for a while know Beth's journey that she detailed daily in her journal on this forum. By the way, that journal is a very good documentation of the trials of a struggling trader. Unfortunately from a trading perspective there is no happy ending where Beth is "making her millions" and is now offering her trading success to others as a subscription. I guess the success could've come in the very short time between her last post in journal and the time she sold her first EZColor subscription but I have a hard time believing that. I know Beth a bit outside this forum and find her to be as likeable as others have stated. However, assuming her journal is an accurate account of her trading skills there is no way I would invest in a subscription to her system and that is probably where most people reading this vendor review are as well. Notice I used "probably" and "most". Obviously I don't know everyone nor do I know most who participate in futures.io (formerly BMT) hence the use of probably and most. Don't want someone to say that I'm being black and white making a comment about something I can't substantiate. Anyway, I know someone will find fault with what I present but the documentation of who Beth is and what her trading skills are can be found in great detail in https://futures.io/trading-journals/2630-beths-journey-make-her-millions.html#post25778. Read it for yourself and then see if you want to take a chance on her trading system.
The following 4 users say Thank You to MWinfrey for this post:
Is this how you folks are preparering x-mas spirit.
Beth is one of the smallest vendor in this industry, and Crooks are more lucrative sector.
If Beth is not selling methods for grandmams, there is trillions other vendors which will do it.
Its amazing how much attentation Beth gets, its like shooting a flea with desert eagle.
I hope we are soon back to regular days and people can trade rather than write this nonsense,Inlcuding me.
Poisoning minds with negative thoughts will not help anybody, I think in trading is important have positive attitude and feelings.
@kk240, I think you are missing the point of most posters as I think most posting about this are not posting specifically about Beth.
You are right. It is negativity, but that attitude also hurts people IN THIS INDUSTRY.
Well, I only robbed one bank, and it is the Holiday Season, it didn't hurt anyone except the tax payers (everyone) and the bank tellers (who now have serious mental issues with guns, working at a bank, etc..).
To me it is a much larger ethical discussion that we have debated oh so often. I didn't turn in my old mentor when I knew I should have because my wife told me that it wasn't our place. Whistle-blowers or poor ethics need to shout loud and clear on what is real and what is smoke-n-mirrors.
Until it is acceptable to call ourselves into line, then we will continue to have serious issues with our society.
Sorry for taking up this valuable space for the marketing and sales of Beth. What will Kris Kringle think of me now...?
I am not missing the point. This thread is under Beth method. why not change thread name.
And I understand all moral and ethical issues about vendors and they dreams and junk what they sell and promising something which are most cases immpossible to achieve, its like tv-shops which are selling muscles for home daddies and mammies.
We can't chage how human psychology works, greed,vainglory etc. here are forever fools who think it will easy create money.
"Nice and honest" people are dangerous, because they think they can teach.
Last edited by kk240; December 21st, 2011 at 09:31 AM.