I think Zoethecus summed it up accurately, slippage is the problem. Accuracy is lost when the live and reloaded charts get out of sync.
When using the russell autotrader live, my entries were off 2-5 ticks from the reloaded chart. If the reloaded chart hit it's first target then headed in the other direction and hit breakeven then it's looking for another trade, but I'm still in the trade.
One day I was stopped out in around 10 seconds. The script fired a long trade, then the price started dropping very quickly. The reloaded chart fired a reverse while the price was dropping, but in live trading it didn't reverse. I was stopped out and the reloaded chart was still in the trade.
To be fair, some days the charts do sync up pretty closely.
I looked at their stuff this summer when they were announced as partners. I did like the clean, simple charts their indicator-based system produced. Breakouts with longer-term trend. Simple. Good.
They made a huge error, imo, by trying to automate and not only that, selling individual modules custom-fit for each particular index market. Over-optimization, clearly, not to mention greed. At this point they went full-tilt boogy into marketing hype type activity as their prime mode versus a 'we are traders and we can help you trade too' type approach. I would be very surprised if they can be consistent with their systems without having to issue endless re-releases every few weeks/months for each of them after a wicked DD period which few, if any, could weather in practice.
I suspect the only day-trading automated systems that can work are those based on very definable patterns, usually early in the am cash session or late. Like opening range breakouts, range expansion extremes (OB/OS), things like that. Smoothed indies will rarely hold up in any market, let alone the indexes, over time.
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I agree. I still like there simple charts. Problem was the didn't automate Viper, but they picked up Rick Straiton's stuff. Total black box. Some of the things the said couldn't be done, made me very leary as I knew they could. Then I saw the draw downs on the way to profits and knew it would never be for me.
Early on, Marten from daxtrading.nl was a contributor to Viper, or rather a preferred customer, who would join in the live chat discussions that none of the regular folks were allowed to. He vanished and we never heard from him again at Viper. I wonder who coded his autotrader?
I knew that slippage was an issue, but I didn't realize it was to that extent. I guess the thin market and the rapid movements of the TF both work against you. My recharted backtest of the RussellsViper showed it to be the best of the bad. In reality, it probably had even greater drawdowns.
Don't know factually, but I looked at Marten's website, and the posts, sure seem to have the look of Rick's work. Also the "Tweaker" used because Ninja doesn't remember strategy limitations also sound like Rick. I know of another coder who got around that problem very cleanly, but I don't think Rick knew how to do it.
Marten probably realized early on, that Viper had no business selling AT and moved on.
Have any of you used his AT? If so, create another thread to discuss.
Yesterday, Viper released a handful of forex pairs for AT. They claim 3 months of backtesting showed good results, but they are not publishing them. It's clear that the founding Viper owners, Gary and Charles, don't have a clue what Rich Staition is doing. I think the lion's share of the $299/month fee goes to Rich and the other two get a commission. They seem to be in the dark and totally uneducated about any of these forex products.
I wouldn't touch these things without seeing at least a year of REALTIME trading statements.