Very well said Mike. I thought I was smarter than that. I had always managed to figure things out quicker than everyone else. And since I was fortunate enough to have a lot of cash saved up, I didn't follow this advice. Two years later I wish I did.
If anyone asks me about getting into trading, I tell them pretty much what you said. You must trade only simulator until you're profitable for 6 months. Expect that to take 2 years.
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Yes, avoid TI absolutely. I use a very cheap system, that has a daily video recap and chart to reinforce what you've learned.
That method is actually starting a room this week that I will attend for a month to see if it is helpful, but it's already straightforward enough (and only has 4 trades or so a day, so I don't know what else will be said).
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I made the error of joining Traders International (TI) and trading in their pro trading room for a few months. This was my biggest mistake so far in trading futures. I lost money following the moderator and paid a fortune to learn a system which does not really work.
I woul definately NOT recommend this site / trading room to any traders. The costs are too high and the losses sustained only add salt to the wounds! Keep as far away from TI as possible.
I recommend any new trader to start off here as the total cost for the Watts system is a huge $ 67. (sixty seven dollars) That's all. There are no monthly trading room fees, no other costs etc. The system is a basic scalping system that has normal Ninja indicators (MACD, SMI, volume). There is a free trading room which you can attend every day and ask the moderators any questions. The guys are really very friendly and helpful, considering there are no charges or ongoing costs.
This trading room is not a calling room. There are no trades called, however the moderators teach you how to read price action and the market, and this is what is critical to master. They teach you to fish for yourselves, without providing any fish for you. In the long run, this is far better for you as you will hopefully become a good trader. IMO this is worth the $67 cost.
I have tried quite a few other trading rooms over the past year, but most are a waste of time ( in my opinion).
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I was introduced to DTCharts about a year ago. Lavender and DT run the site. Cost is $100/mo. From all the horror stories I have heard about trading sites, I had stayed away from them except for this one as it was recommended to me from a trusted source. She is pretty laid back and very knowledgable. She teaches you how to trade. She used to but does not anymore flat out call trades. She feels it is more important for her to teach you how to trade then make calls. She still calls areas and guides you through them. Yes, I have watched her call trades when she did do it and they were most of the time right on. She also asks most of the time if everyone is green for the day/week. I have seen her take the time and help people get back into the green if they were not. That is the type of person she is. Anyway, she teaches s/r and accumilation/distribution. She has learning vids on the site as well for you to review. Knows her stuff. Contact DT and tell him grkbear sent you and ask for a couple of weeks of free trial in her room. They are willing to let you see what you get before you pay, can't beat that. I hope it helps, it has helped me in my journey.
P.S. Stay away from Traders International. All they are interested in is recruiting new candidates to keep thier enterprise going!! I believe they use an overlayed stochs on price and look for divergence. I used to have the settings or even a template for it. Do yourself a favor and save your money!!! You can learn way more here on this site then you ever will over at TI.
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if they are the right kind. Large rooms where everyone can speak, a lot of the comments are off topic, people attacking other people, etc.....are no good.
You can find a cheap room where one experienced teacher explains things live for most of the day. In my experience, I don't feel as alone, & I can learn from someone who looks at the market in a different way than I normally would.
I have a few thoughts about how to save yourself a bundle of headaches and heartaches, and maybe a few buck as you search for a trade room.
First question is why do you need a trade room?
Simple answer is that in the beginning it can help you get through some of the learning curve, and you have a place for some some sympathetic response and support for your trading woes. Also, a good trade room should help you make money while you learn.
Unfortunetly, with 100's of methods and as many trade rooms out there, how can you wade through the junk and concentrate on the better one's? I have a few criteria that I think are an absolute must for a real trade room where your chances of succeeding and MAKING MONEY WHILE LEARNING are high.
Number one - You must be able to see the moderating traders charts in real time.
Number two - You must be able to see the trades entered in real time either through the moderators order dom, or chart trader or some method where it is apparent that the trade was entered, filled, and managed.
Number three - You must be able to follow the trades, or at least most of them. This issues gets abit difficult in a fast market and may need some adjusting.
To my mind there are three basic types of trading rooms. One is where it's just pure trading, minimal instruction. The other is where the education has more emphasis, and trading takes a back seat...hence few trades. The third is a hybrid; a steady stream of trading towards a set room goal and a scheduled series of ongoing educational sessions in addition to the room's daily trading. So, first you need to decide which is right for you. Here's a tip. If you are considering a trading education in a particular trading method because you have none of your own, then look for the education emphasis. Otherwise, if you have a few good setups you know, and have some of your trading education already underway, then look for a trading room that will add to your knowledge, and help you make money as you learn their methods and tools. If, however, you have traded a bit and have some tools and know some setups and yet nothing is working or going well for you, then look to the hybrid.
Regardless, remember the #1, #2 and #3 rule. DO NOT SETTLE FOR ANYTHING LESS.
If you are unable to see the trade moderators charts and his trade entries then pass that place up. It may be a good place, it may not. But without the visual verifiable evidence you will find yourself not only having to watch your own chart, but also having to compile in your head what is happening, and keep that picture going along with all the other pressures of trading. I do not care what excuse is given...there is no excuse for not showing real time moderating trades taken in real time. Technology is not an issue, money cannot possibly be the issue, so it must be something else? Let's see...fear, exposure, stop fluffing, doubling up or bad trading habits or what? You tell me.
So, there is the absolute newbie (and it's going to be painful) who really needs a lot of luck to avoid the garbage rooms and there is the trader who is just looking to improve and there is the trader who really needs a better set of tools and methods to get him out of his funk.
So if you have found a room then the best way to take advantage of the room is to spend a few weeks just listening and watching. We are conditioned for immediate response syndrome, instant gratification syndrome and these are detremental to your trading health. We can probably all agree on that. If you do take the time to watch and listen, then keep a notebook and write down every trade call, the time and the particulars...targets hit, stops etc. and review it after market while looking at your own chart.
Don't even look at your own chart while doing the assesment. Concentrate on what's going on in the room because if you decide on that room you are going to have to do the next thing to get the most out of the room. That is to trust the trading moderator and his trade calls. Why? Because you want to be able to make money while you learn. So your first task is to see if the room makes sense to you. Can you follow the logic of the trade moderator. If he is a really good trader, he may be a lousey moderator and vis versa. So you need to know that before you join.
Look for verifiable results. Verifyable results are the trade records 1st hand...not some spreadsheet made up afterwards, or some list of trades posted in a chat window (even if in real time). In Ninja it's pretty easy. Look for the trade list records unadulterated right out of Ninja. Look for the summery records.
I have heard a lot of traders complain that sim doesn't count. Well, I think that is wrong thinking. What you need to see is the trade time of entry, the target completion and the stop. Add a tick of slippage in one direction, if you like, to the trade and see what it looks like. Often, a moderator will move to sim if he has hit his daily goal. The better moderators are not at all shy about letting you know they have moved to sim. I think it very unreasonable of traders who insist that a moderator continue to endlessly trade throughout the day without some kind of stopping criteria. The concepts of over trading, pointless trading, mental fatigue, and plain stupidity come to mind if anyone thinks that trading without some kind of daily goal or quota is going to make you a better trader. On the contrary. So why should a moderator be forced to practice bad trading habits just because you as a member may have strolled into the trade room at 10:56 and want a winning trade. Well, guess what. By 10:56 most good traders are done for the day! So, once the daily goal is hit and if the moderator is any good, then you should not have any problems with his moving to sim. What's important is does he continue to call winning trades? Do the tools continue to give high probability setups? Can you see his trades?
So, now you have a room you think is going to work for you. You took the trial, you signed up for 1 month. BTW, do not accept a room where you are required to sign up for a longer specified term...this is bs. If the room is a good room then there should exist the confidence that you will be so pleased and satisfied that you will return of your own desire.
Now, remember the part about trusting the moderators trading? This is where it is important that you accept that fact and live with it. You are not going to catch every trade call...no matter what room you are in. Its just the way it is. Hesitation, you coughed just as the trade was called, a bug distracted you...whatever...its going to happen that you will miss a couple. So, the bottom line is that to get the most out of any trade room AFTER you have done your homework and decided, is to take every room trade period. You homework should already have told you the performance expectation, the style of the rooms moderating trader, the basic methodology and trade setup rules, etc.
Your job now is to learn the method and the setups in great detail, practice them under guidence, and make money while you learn. I have been in some pretty crappy rooms (now I know they were crappy) and some pretty decent rooms (of course these are the one's I abandoned because I did not have my own act together).
Currently I do not need a trade room. If you are at that point then congratualtions! If not, then even if you join any trade room remember to look forward to the day when you can graduate and trade independently, consistently successfully. Find a trading buddy and go make some money!
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Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.
Need help? 1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first. 2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses. 3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make. 4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance. 5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers. 6) Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.
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