Great feedback. If everyone taking their trial would keep us posted on your progress, i would appreciate it. I meant to continue with them for a month but got too busy with work and haven't done it yet. I had the same impressions of Aragorn's when i took the trial. if you have a good trading system and they very well might, it makes little sense not to make it user friendly. I was in the room and could follow at times i think but other times couldn't tell if we were buying or selling. The moderator did not want to clarify in the room very often. Even in the afterhours Q& A session where he did have voice, he refused to go through the day's trades on a chart when asked which makes little sense. It would take like 15 minutes at most and would have made a huge difference in clarifying their trading approach. I still give them the benefit of the doubt but i also think it will be hard for them to stay in business unless they change their attitude and approach. I also thought his constant ragging on the typical retail trader got old as well and ironic since thats basically their target market.
This is a difficult room to report objectively on as I, personally, do not like the setup. As all comments are posted in written form I find I spend as much time looking at the chat box as I do looking at the market. I can tolerate it for now but don't know if I can sustain that type of communication.
IMO it is not a room for beginning traders or for traders with smaller accounts. There are often large distances between where he identifies the market could trade to. He has aggressive entries and conservative entries with several points in between. If you take the aggressive entry then you run the risk of it trading to the conservative entry losing money all the way. If you wait for the conservative entry then you miss the trade if it doesn't trade to that point. While he identifies himself as a pro I don't see how he is different from any other vendor. The market can do anything and therein lies the risk. He is not announcing any revelation that it could do otherwise. At some point you have to place your bet and take the risk.
His posts are always laced with alternative possibilities: "1232.50 is most aggr... otherwise the 1228.50" or
"warned you... ok... 1236 again...1238.50 poss 40.50...42... even 44 all back in the picture" or "if can get south of 1230.50 here= may be ok... and esp if can get south of 1226.25 again" or "1216.75 again... even 1222 no impossible (bounce)... just warning you!"
Anyone interested in taking the free trial needs to be thoroughly versed in the information on their website- especially the Use of Terms. Let me reiterate you should read and reread it several times as he will just refer you to it rather than answer questions in the chat box if the answer is in that section. Entry, Stops and Exits should be thoroughly understood as well as the other lingo he uses- he has a vocabulary that in some cases is all his own ie tsp= take some profit; n of Price= north of price level; s of price= south of price level- others are standard b/e; b/d; pb; mkt; EOD; etc.
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Tuesday, April 17, 2012 5:30PM EDT we feature "Not Catching 20 Points a Day (on average) in the ES? We Can Help!" presented by HT - The Head Trader at Leading Edge Trading
I am thrilled to make 1% (trading size) on my margin per day on avg. month after month; and that is my initial risk for any trade.
I guess I should be making 20pts a day in ES!!!
Trading rooms suck. They should only be for entertainment only. One has to find their own way as a trader--either using a proven methodology that one has made his own from a good training source or figure it out on one's own using price action and perhaps a momentum and oscillator indicator.
Come on! Everyone is doing it! Why make only 20, when you can make.....(wait for it.......)...... 30 points a day!
I used to be a part of 1-2 rooms early on in my trading career. While I agree, it is mostly for entertainment, and one cannot follow someone else consistently, and make money for any decent period of time; I do believe you can get a new perspective or any number of ideas by looking at how someone else trades. This could be true of a trader who is making money, as well as one which is losing money. Looking at others for ideas is just one of many ways to help shape you into the trader you will eventually become, but only if you stick with it long enough. Yeah, I said it again, stick with it. But, to join a room which offers no trial, or doesn't allow you to do some Q&A, etc, it will probably be difficult to get real benefit from it. Just my .02.
The following user says Thank You to Gary for this post:
Did the trail room recently. Yes, the attitude of HT is arrogant, and the fact is you are in a "TRIAL" room, and inevitably everyone wants to know what the methodology is and how to trade it NOW. That is not the purpose! It is to give you a idea of or "taste" of the meal. Your choice to buy the meal or not. Like any industry there is a vocabulary that you need to know and what exactly the meanings are. Let me say this, the point of Zen training is to detach from your attachments, all that baggage you bring with you. The job of the teacher is to get you to let go of what you think you know, so that you can "see" what is there. Same for trading, we bring all of our preconceived ideas, beliefs, notions, ideas, feelings, etc. , so you are blinded by all of that, and can not see anything new. It's what Mark Douglas points to regarding trading in the zone, being present without preconceived ideas. HT is doing the same. I'm Kinesthetic, so this chat only mode does not work for me. The other issue is that "HT" is the only person teaching/training, so if something was to happen to him, everyone is SOL. I too am not OK with this hiding thing. The admin person Michelle, if that is her real name can get testy too, as you will read.
A piece of the puzzle, is that HT uses rotational ranges, ie. we know that the ES moves in 2.5, 5, 10 pts +, so if you take a recent pivot low or low's and add those ranges you will get the targets above...not magic just simple math.
Funny how your are told that you don't know anything about trading, and yet in the trail room, you are asked if you have any questions. Well, if I don't know anything, and won't till I participate in the Silver room till I "get it", how can I possibly have any questions?! I was finally able to get some of my questions answered. see below
1. What exactly is taught at the Silver level?
2. Is it mandatory that a student stay in the Silver room for a min of 6 months, or is there some evaluation process that you have in place (please explain), to determine when a student is ready to transition to the next step? With that being said, and given this industry's slimy tactics, not to inform a student that maybe they are not trader material, just like not everyone is cut out to be a doctor, dentist, etc. How long does it take for you to determine that a person can be successful with your methodology or trading perspective or not?
3. In your experience what is the shortest period of time someone has signed on to the Silver and been invited to the Gold and or Platinum room?
4. Do you only have one HT for all rooms?
5. Does the monthly charge stay the same for the Gold and Platinum rooms? If not, then what is the price change. Note: In any business, if you do not know the cost of doing business then you will fail.
6. There are no brick & mortar addresses, or full names. I don't know you, and you are asking me to "blindly" extend my trust & $$, not going to happen.
7. Will the HT provide verifiable proof (Brokerage Statement) that he/she trades this way are profitable?
Note: her comment about my "wave" idea, was referring to the correlation of pro surfers, and trading. If you have to think about how to surf while surfing you will wipe out. The same goes for trading. There is a point in which you "know" what to do...so when the opportunity presents itself, you act, you don't think about it.
Let me start off by saying that I am very busy during the week and I do not usually have time to go back and forth with long emails..hence why I wanted to chat intra-day. It seems that waiting a day I get another email from you which proves my point
1. the "how" and "why' is not taught in the Silver Room. The goal of the Silver room is to get you in sync with HT's info so you can make money off the info that he give out each day. This is done by the meeting we have after the market closes on Tuesday evenings.
2. When you are interested in moving up to other levels, HT will give you a call to determine if you are a good fit for the training. If he does not think that you are able to "understand" the learning process, he will not take you as a student. He determines who he wants to train. It is his knowledge and he shares it with whom he would like.
3. We have had people move up to the Platinum in 2 weeks, some have moved up in 6 to 8 months, others have no desire to move up. They like the Silver Room and make money there. It is up to each traders preference if they are interested in moving forward and learning the "how" and "why"
4. he is only one HT in our rooms.
5.We do not go into detail as far as pricing and what is involved in the contract of the Gold and Platinum Rooms. There are a couple reasons for this. First, HT doesn’t take just anyone into training. We need to see what kind of trader you are and if you can process the knowledge that becomes available. Second, we would not want to move you right into training because there are some valuable lessons in the Silver and the time to get completely in sync with HT. It is not training that we throw a manual at you and say, “here you go..go for it”. It is an on-going commitment until you get it! Some people may never get it so we have to be careful not to waste anyone’s money, and our time. Thank you for understanding.
6. We do not ask for anything...the Silver Room is $299 a month...after that, there is no pressure to move on. If you do not trust us, then stay in the month to month for as long as you want. We dont want your money for the Gold and Platinum if that is how you feel.
7. We do not give you records.
You have no idea how much you do not know. You are wrong with your targets and your "wave" idea. I will now spend time on traders that are willing to change and make a profit instead of the demand for answers that you will not accept anyways.
The following user says Thank You to makusan for this post:
The arrogance is astounding but not surprising. Anyone who sets themselves up as a guru where everyone has to walk around kissing their fanny is borderline narcissistic. No one is so much an expert that they can wield the claim to king of the world. Just because someone displays overconfidence in their own trading room is a far cry from making me want to jump on their bandwagon. I haven't seen anything to change my mind.
I've often wondered, if they're so great at their trading why do they need to market so aggressively? This is the second time within the last few months I remember them doing their webinar.
I'm sorry, but for an industry that is so filled with deception, that they hide behind “HT” is still sending warning lights off in my head. I've never been in a room where the moderator wouldn't give their name. Maybe some have but for me it's a red flag. And to have everything in text just adds more suspicion. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck well maybe...
I'm just saying if there is reason to be suspicious then be suspicious. There is a reason things are out of the ordinary. Question it.
People have a tendency of finding what they look for. Those who love him only see those things that support their belief in him. They switch from being objective to subjective because of the emotional hope they place in him. People who don't believe in him are more cynical and tend to see the issues. The truth is probably somewhere in between.
Your progress is not determined by you but by your being “chosen” or “approved” by them. This is retarded. I didn't know that I was supposed to be attempting to get in their good graces and rely on their mercies while having the “privilege” of paying them to so award me as well. That's narcissistic.
The following user says Thank You to Aragorn for this post: