NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Calculating the yield curve myself


Discussion in Treasury Notes and Bonds

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one josh with 3 posts (1 thanks)
    2. looks_two addchild with 3 posts (6 thanks)
    3. looks_3 Quick Summary with 1 posts (0 thanks)
    4. looks_4 Big Mike with 1 posts (1 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one kkfx with 5 thanks per post
    2. looks_two addchild with 2 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 Big Mike with 1 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 josh with 0.3 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 3,077 views
    2. thumb_up 13 thanks given
    3. group 5 followers
    1. forum 8 posts
    2. attach_file 2 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Calculating the yield curve myself

  #1 (permalink)
 
josh's Avatar
 josh 
Georgia, US
Legendary Market Wizard
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: Denali+Rithmic
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
Posts: 6,245 since Jan 2011
Thanks Given: 6,783
Thanks Received: 18,255

IQFeed provides TNX.XO, which gives the 10 year yield, but only shows the bond pit hours as that's what CBOE calculates (7:20 to 14:00 CT). Is there a somewhat straightforward way to calculate the yield curve myself using some other data? I'm not sure what data I would need, and a search online does not provide much useful info. I may not have access to the necessary data for the calculations, but I would like to do this if possible. Any ideas?

Started this thread Reply With Quote

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
Trade idea based off three indicators.
Traders Hideout
What broker to use for trading palladium futures
Commodities
Pivot Indicator like the old SwingTemp by Big Mike
NinjaTrader
MC PL editor upgrade
MultiCharts
ZombieSqueeze
Platforms and Indicators
 
  #3 (permalink)
 addchild 
Bay Area California
 
Experience: None
Platform: TT T4
Broker: Phillip Capital
Trading: Futures
Posts: 809 since Nov 2011
Thanks Given: 926
Thanks Received: 898



josh View Post
IQFeed provides TNX.XO, which gives the 10 year yield, but only shows the bond pit hours as that's what CBOE calculates (7:20 to 14:00 CT). Is there a somewhat straightforward way to calculate the yield curve myself using some other data? I'm not sure what data I would need, and a search online does not provide much useful info. I may not have access to the necessary data for the calculations, but I would like to do this if possible. Any ideas?

There are a few different ways to answer this question, that are all different depending on what you plan on doing with the information.

Curve is just the changes in yield as duration increases, IMO 5-30 does the best job at illustrating changes on an intraday level.

Here are a few simple tools :

Data and Chart Center

https://www.cmegroup.com/education/files/understanding-treasury-futures.pdf


.
Attached Files
Elite Membership required to download: Treasury_Futures_Price-to-Yield_Table.xls
Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #4 (permalink)
 addchild 
Bay Area California
 
Experience: None
Platform: TT T4
Broker: Phillip Capital
Trading: Futures
Posts: 809 since Nov 2011
Thanks Given: 926
Thanks Received: 898

A quick estimate using the attached tool



Sorry forgot to change the legend, duration is on the x axis.


.
Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #5 (permalink)
 
josh's Avatar
 josh 
Georgia, US
Legendary Market Wizard
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: Denali+Rithmic
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
Posts: 6,245 since Jan 2011
Thanks Given: 6,783
Thanks Received: 18,255

@addchild, thanks for your helpfulness as always. Something must be a little funny--when I put 126'11 for the 10 year, the implied yield is 2.94%, which is far above the actual 2.55 or so. Maybe the assumption of 6% coupon is not accurate? Honestly, I am just trying to become more knowledgeable about treasuries so I really don't know this right now. I will read more on this tomorrow--in the meantime, thanks for the info!

Started this thread Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)
 addchild 
Bay Area California
 
Experience: None
Platform: TT T4
Broker: Phillip Capital
Trading: Futures
Posts: 809 since Nov 2011
Thanks Given: 926
Thanks Received: 898


josh View Post
@addchild, thanks for your helpfulness as always. Something must be a little funny--when I put 126'11 for the 10 year, the implied yield is 2.94%, which is far above the actual 2.55 or so. Maybe the assumption of 6% coupon is not accurate? Honestly, I am just trying to become more knowledgeable about treasuries so I really don't know this right now. I will read more on this tomorrow--in the meantime, thanks for the info!


@josh The assumption of the 6% coupon is standard for all treasury products, and is used in determining the conversion factor to price out individual bonds.

The difference in yield could be from a poor assumption, but quite a bit of it is likely from market frictions, and the mechanics of the rates you are comparing.

The main difference being that the treasury yield is calculated from the "on the run" bond while futures price most closely tracks the "cheapest to deliver" bond.

The "on the run" (OTR) bond is the most recently issued bond of a certain maturity (this is what is sold at the treasury auctions).

The "cheapest to deliver" (CTD) bond is the least expensive bond that is suitable for delivery against the futures contract.

Because the treasury sells its products by yield through auctions, it leaves quite a few different bonds floating around, with many different yields and coupons. So to avoid excess demand for any individual issue the folks at the fed (or maybe it was the CBOT) came up with something called the conversion factor. Which is designed to adjust the price of the futures contract so that they are all of equal value (sort-of), and many bonds can be delivered against one contract.

https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/interest-rates/files/Calculating_U.S._Treasury_Futures_Conversion_Factors_Final_Dec_4.pdf

Yield is largely tied to the basis,

basis= Spot- (futures*conversion factor)

You can extrapolate price change of a change in the yield by multiplying the basis*DollarValue (DV01).

https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/interest-rates/files/Calculating_the_Dollar_Value_of_a_Basis_Point_Final_Dec_4.pdf

So the yield of the OTR bond (what is quoted on treasury.gov) is essentially a given, but the yield of the futures contract is tied to the CTD bond (this requires a cash bond feed) which changes based on yield and maturity.

.
Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #7 (permalink)
 
josh's Avatar
 josh 
Georgia, US
Legendary Market Wizard
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: Denali+Rithmic
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
Posts: 6,245 since Jan 2011
Thanks Given: 6,783
Thanks Received: 18,255

@addchild, you must be one of the most helpful people I know, thank you my friend. When I get in the right frame of mind to really dig into this after my schedule is complete today I am quite sure I will have some questions so don't go too far

Started this thread Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #8 (permalink)
 
kkfx's Avatar
 kkfx 
Mumbai, India
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MT4, NT8,TradingView
Broker: AMP
Trading: Index,currencies
Posts: 116 since Jul 2010
Thanks Given: 325
Thanks Received: 160

This video helped me in better understanding of treasury futures and Eurodollars.

Treasury-bond-futures trading and a video of action on the [AUTOLINK]trading floor[/AUTOLINK] - YouTube


Eurodollars - YouTube

Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 Big Mike 
Manta, Ecuador
Site Administrator
Developer
Swing Trader
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Broker: IBKR
Trading: Stocks & Futures
Frequency: Every few days
Duration: Weeks
Posts: 50,463 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 33,239
Thanks Received: 101,661


indiantrader View Post
This video helped me in better understanding of treasury futures and Eurodollars.

Treasury-bond-futures trading and a video of action on the [AUTOLINK]trading floor[/AUTOLINK] - YouTube


Eurodollars - YouTube

Excellent. If I had classes like that, I might have actually paid attention...

Mike

We're here to help: just ask the community or contact our Help Desk

Quick Links: Change your Username or Register as a Vendor
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list
Lifetime Elite Membership: Sign-up for only $149 USD
Exclusive money saving offers from our Site Sponsors: Browse Offers
Report problems with the site: Using the NexusFi changelog thread
Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
Thanked by:




Last Updated on June 25, 2013


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts