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Trading futures with Tradovate "no commissions" broker?

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  #1 (permalink)
 jmboss 
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Anyone currently trading futures with Tradovate "no commissions" broker? You do pay a quarterly or annual membership fee in advance, but the more trades one does, the trading costs drop rapidly. Looks very attractive to me, especially if one does a lot of daily scalping trades. The cost savings should add up fast enough that I can't see how another broker to date would be less expensive; unless other charting and advisory services are considered to justify higher commission prices.

Of course since I currently use TOS for my futures trading, switching to almost any dedicated futures broker would be a cost saver for me.

Seems like Tradovate for futures trading is somewhat akin to what Robinhood is for stock trading.

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  #3 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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Update: subsequent posts point out that they must send their orders to a futures exchange where they are executed, and so my original post is in error. The sort of things that can happen with Forex and other markets will not happen with futures.

I would just delete it, except it has been quoted by others, so I am replacing it with this note instead.

I would ask @SoftSoap and @traderwerks to edit out their quotations of my post, if they would, so it does not remain in any form. I don't want to perpetuate a misconception about how the firm does business, when it has become clear that the idea is incorrect.

Thanks, and I apologize for speaking hastily.

Bob.

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 traderwerks 
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bobwest View Post
I have no experience with this, but it seems logical to me that if a broker is not charging for commission, they are making their money through the spread; that is, the fills you get would be worse, and the difference is their profit.

You are thinking of Forex brokers. Futures are executed at a central exchange, so they are not making money on the spread.

Looking at the web site, they are just cutting costs. They are an FCM so they do not pay another FCM and they only offer one platform ( and apparently one feed ) making their customer support costs lower.

They still charge a $0.09 "transaction fee" whatever that is, so the ES is $2.54 a round trip.

Math. A gateway drug to reality.
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  #5 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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traderwerks View Post
Futures are executed at a central exchange, so they are not making money on the spread.

You are probably right on that. Forex could do it, and I think stocks as well (who knows where a stock order will be routed?), but if they are an FCM executing through the CME, there's no leeway for skulduggery.

Bob.

Edit: removed an irrelevant comment.

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  #6 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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I knew the answer as its Futures but put it to them in an email for official response.

"Thank you for reaching out and for your questions.

We do not make any income off the spread. With futures, unlike forex and CFDs, all order must be sent to an exchange. So we do not interact with any flow and do not make any income off the spread. All Tradovate order are sent to their respect futures exchange.

We can be more aggressive on pricing because we own our own technology. As a broker with our own technology you are not paying twice. In addition, it really does not cost a brokerage firm more to process a 10 lot than a 1 lot so we are passing that savings onto our clients.

I welcome you to try Tradovate with a live account "


Only snag is what is their platform like but never know for some people it could be good.

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  #7 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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I have edited my original post to remove my initial idea, which has been shown to be incorrect.

Sorry, @jmboss, I'm afraid I didn't give a good answer to you after all. If you could remove the "Answer" flag from my post, it would save me some additional embarrassment.

Thanks to @traderwerks and @Rory for pointing out the realities of futures trading on exchanges, which I knew, of course, but which had somehow slipped out of my head when I answered the original post.

Bob.

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  #8 (permalink)
 Obelixtrader 
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they have 3 Membership Plans subscription
https://www.tradovate.com/pricing/
Its really Too Good to Be True?

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  #9 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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Obelixtrader View Post
they have 3 Membership Plans subscription
https://www.tradovate.com/pricing/
Its really Too Good to Be True?

You do the Math. To the best of my understanding:
The site says:
"Exchange, NFA, and clearing fees still apply."
The Advanced Version:
For the annual you have to pay upfront.
$139X12= $1668 this is paid upfront
If you do not do annual, it's $199 per quarter upfront $597 per quarter

The same logic applies to the "Active" please click the Quarterly and Annual to understand your charges.

If you are interested in ONE time flat pricing for futures, we can provide it for $1,000 per year.
We have been providing this since 2015.

@traderwerks They are NOT an FCM. They are an IB of Dorman according to their site:
https://tradovate.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205134408

If I am wrong, please correct me.

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  #10 (permalink)
 steve2222 
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Supporting @mattz link, looks like the FCM registration was withdrawn in March 2016:

https://www.nfa.futures.org/BasicNet/Details.aspx?entityid=ZgFMaNUYaDM%3D

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  #11 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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I had a look at the home address last night...

780 HOME RD
DELAWARE, OH 43015

https://www.google.com.co/maps/place/780+Home+Rd,+Delaware,+OH+43015,+USA/@40.1962476,-83.0452709,328m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8838f19bce6c2b07:0xcde7de75ea145424!8m2!3d40.19623!4d-83.043804

I guess they are building a house there..maybe?..nice location, little pond. Maybe a treehouse?

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 stefan777 
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Rory View Post
I had a look at the home address last night...

780 HOME RD
DELAWARE, OH 43015

https://www.google.com.co/maps/place/780+Home+Rd,+Delaware,+OH+43015,+USA/@40.1962476,-83.0452709,328m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8838f19bce6c2b07:0xcde7de75ea145424!8m2!3d40.19623!4d-83.043804

I guess they are building a house there..maybe?..nice location, little pond. Maybe a treehouse?

Follow the driveway up. It's a nice little shack.

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  #13 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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stefan777 View Post
Follow the driveway up. It's a nice little shack.

Indeed but thats 730, I guess 780 is the mailbox's address

Screw trading, how do we become brokers again?

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 traderwerks 
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mattz View Post
@traderwerks They are NOT an FCM. They are an IB of Dorman according to their site:
https://tradovate.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205134408

@mattz, Nope, they are not anymore, my bad.

I remember last fall Richard Tomsic was talking about their FCM registration because I was thinking, the Open E Cry guys are back.

The future of futures is electronic! Tradovate becomes FCM in North America

Tradovate's FCM registration is approved. One step closer to bringing something new to futures trading

Math. A gateway drug to reality.
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 traderwerks 
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Rory View Post
Indeed but thats 730, I guess 780 is the mailbox's address

Screw trading, how do we become brokers again?

Get bought out.

I suspect it is one of the Open E Cry's guys house. They were in Powell OH, about 10 min away from that address.

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 SMCJB 
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Isn't charging a 9c transaction fee and then claiming they don't charge commissions false advertising?
Surprised a US NFA regulated IB is allowed to do this.

Also of interest "We currently do not offer SPAN margins but we are currently working to add this functionality. You are given SPAN margining on your account statement." So no spread trading there!

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  #17 (permalink)
Laconic
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I have been looking into Tradovate as a potential IB.

For those who do not know, Tradovate is a new IB (open only a few months) that charges a flat monthly fee (for example, $99/month for one trading account if you pay for a year upfront) plus $.09 per side "clearing" which goes to their FCM, which is Dorman. This is really cheap.

I can come up with several disadvantages of going with Tradovate:

- Their platform is very limited right now. But, with the savings, you can easily afford another data feed/charting package to do market analysis. (You can trade Tradovate's platform on the web or on a mobile device in addition to on a computer; that's not a big deal for me but it is "better" that what you get from many other IB's.)

- Tradovate is "new". I do not have any idea what the success/failure rate is for new IB's. I have no idea how many customers they have to sign up and how quickly to stay in business. I do know that Dorman is a substantial firm and that customer funds are segregated at Harris Bank. I just don't know how much of a problem it will be for me if say seven months from now Tradovate shuts down.

- A combination of the prior two reasons: the platform is new... therefore it has not been tested through all sorts of market conditions. (Although I guess Tradovate was already open for Brexit... any war stories out there?)

- Position limits. $500 day trade margin is available on emini index contracts, but only up to 20, with a max position limit of 75. (Contracts 21 to 75 are 50% margin for day trading.) Other contracts are 50% margin for day trading, with a 50 contract limit. These limits are not a problem for me (for the near future? hope springs eternal!) and certainly one does not even need to trade near that size to enjoy substantial commission savings from Tradovate's model. I do not avail myself of day trading margins so that is not an issue for me either.

I will say that customer service has been very responsive and helpful.

So, the point of this post: In your view, are any of the reasons listed above (or any others I have not thought of) important enough that I should avoid Tradovate? Does anyone else have any experience, good or bad, with them?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

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  #18 (permalink)
Laconic
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I'm kind of surprised no one has an opinion on this one way or the other...

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 Big Mike 
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Hi guys,

It is my pleasure to welcome Ryan Hansen, President of Tradovate, for a webinar on Thursday, September 22nd @ 4:30 PM Eastern US.

This webinar is meant as an introduction to Tradovate, and to give everyone an opportunity to learn about their tools and ask questions.

Tradovate is a modern, cloud-based futures trading platform offering unlimited, commission-free trading for a flat price. No per-trade commissions, platform licensing fees, order routing fees, or mobile app fees.

Bullet points of the webinar:

- How commission-free trading works
- Desktop for Windows & Mac, web for Chrome, and mobile for iPhone, iPad, and Android
- DOM, charts, quotes, advanced orders, and more
- Third party analysis & trading tools

You can find Tradovate on their website:
https://www.tradovate.com/

Register for the event (space is limited):
https://on.futures.io/kmult

Mike

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  #20 (permalink)
 flowscalper 
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Is it somehow possible to connect from another platform like Ninjatrader, Multicharts or Jigsaw (standalone)?
THEN this would be very interesting!

Given that the actual FCM apparently is Dorman it is highly unlikely that
they have invented new technology for the data and execution feed.
So what is it? CQG? Rithmic? Is there any actual user out there who could comment?

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Laconic
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flowscalper View Post
Is it somehow possible to connect from another platform like Ninjatrader, Multicharts or Jigsaw (standalone)?
THEN this would be very interesting!

Given that the actual FCM apparently is Dorman it is highly unlikely that
they have invented new technology for the data and execution feed.
So what is it? CQG? Rithmic? Is there any actual user out there who could comment?

- They do offer Jigsaw. Not sure what you mean by standalone. No other platforms.
- My understanding is the data is CQG.
- I am in the process of opening an account.

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 flowscalper 
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Laconic View Post
- They do offer Jigsaw. Not sure what you mean by standalone. No other platforms.
- My understanding is the data is CQG.
- I am in the process of opening an account.

What do you mean by "They do offer Jigsaw"?
I mean the Jigsaw DOM and that is what I need to be able
to use for the broker to be useful to me.

Currently Jigsaw is available as an add-on to various trading platforms
(but you say "no other platforms") and in the future Jigsaw will have
it's own standalone version (Not ready yet).

So I am a bit confused right now. Can I use the Jigsaw tools with this broker?

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  #23 (permalink)
Laconic
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flowscalper View Post
What do you mean by "They do offer Jigsaw"?
I mean the Jigsaw DOM and that is what I need to be able
to use for the broker to be useful to me.

Currently Jigsaw is available as an add-on to various trading platforms
(but you say "no other platforms") and in the future Jigsaw will have
it's own standalone version (Not ready yet).

So I am a bit confused right now. Can I use the Jigsaw tools with this broker?

- First off, I think Jigsaw at Tradovate may only be in beta testing at the moment. But the release should be soon.
- The setup is that you access the Jigsaw tools through the Tradovate platform, which I would guess is the same way you would do it through Ninja, Multicharts, etc. So you do have to have the Tradovate platform running but Jigsaw looks and runs the way you expect.

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 SilverFut 
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flowscalper View Post
What do you mean by "They do offer Jigsaw"?
I mean the Jigsaw DOM and that is what I need to be able
to use for the broker to be useful to me.

Currently Jigsaw is available as an add-on to various trading platforms
(but you say "no other platforms") and in the future Jigsaw will have
it's own standalone version (Not ready yet).

So I am a bit confused right now. Can I use the Jigsaw tools with this broker?


Jigsaw Tools available on Windows downloadable version.

https://www.tradovate.com/platform/

Release Notes

Version 0.9.160819 (08/21/2016)

Integration to Jigsaw Depth and Sales released in Windows downloadable version. Now accessible from “Add Modules” area.

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 Keab 
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Can someone clarify a few things for me.

Hmmmm what is the actual cost of a round trip on the SandP/Bund/Dax futures contract? Or any others?
On their fees section, it is not clear if the figures posted are per side or round trip.

Symbol Market Exchange Group Exchange Fee NFA Fee Transaction Fee
NQ E-Mini NASDAQ 100 CME E-Mini Indices $1.17 $0.01 $0.09
TF Russell 2000 Index Mini ICE Futures US E-Mini Indices $1.30 $0.01 $0.09
ES E-Mini S&P 500 CME E-Mini Indices $1.17 $0.01 $0.09
YM E-Mini Dow ($5) CBOT E-Mini Indices $1.16 $0.01 $0.09
FDXM Mini-DAX EUREX Indices 0.38 EUR $0.01 $0.09
NKD Nikkei 225 (USD) CME Indices $2.10 $0.01 $0.09
FDAX DAX Index EUREX Indices 0.67 EUR $0.01 $0.09
FESX Euro Stoxx 50 EUREX Indices 0.47 EUR $0.01 $0.09


So looking at popular markets: Bund/SandP/Dow Jones, you can see that there are transaction costs per trade:
SandP $1.27
DOw $1.26
Bund 0.45 euros

If it's per side, then the savings are not so clear cut. I can see exchanges are included on the higher priced options which is pretty good. But if the platform is limited then you would need your own data feed and charting package on top, pretty much like everyone else.

Would be curious to see if I have got the wrong end of the stick on this-seems like it's ok but the savings are not huge if you can get a prop firm rate with your own cash?

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 trendwaves 
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I dug around and found this link that explains how Jigsaw integrates into the platform... https://tradovate.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/226168387-How-do-I-access-Jigsaw-tools-in-Tradovate-

On the fees question: the fees you listed are per side (not round turn), the 0.09 cents is the standard order routing fee passed through from CQG. The fees listed are fixed costs (per contract traded) outside the control of any individual broker. Instead of adding on a broker commission per contract to the fixed fees, you would be paying a low fixed monthly subscription. So the more contracts you trade in a month, the greater the cost benefit of the subscription. Combine this with Jigsaw and you start to get a synergy, I would suspect DOM execution order flow traders that don't need a lot of advanced charting bells and whistles are going to take a look at this for the immediate cost advantage.

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 tturner86 
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 Keab 
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trendwaves View Post
I dug around and found this link that explains how Jigsaw integrates into the platform... https://tradovate.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/226168387-How-do-I-access-Jigsaw-tools-in-Tradovate-

On the fees question: the fees you listed are per side (not round turn), the 0.09 cents is the standard order routing fee passed through from CQG. The fees listed are fixed costs (per contract traded) outside the control of any individual broker. Instead of adding on a broker commission per contract to the fixed fees, you would be paying a low fixed monthly subscription. So the more contracts you trade in a month, the greater the cost benefit of the subscription. Combine this with Jigsaw and you start to get a synergy, I would suspect DOM execution order flow traders that don't need a lot of advanced charting bells and whistles are going to take a look at this for the immediate cost advantage.

Aha nice one, thanks for that.

So to clarify, it seems like dubious advertising. My understanding is that for the fixed monthly fee, you can trade futures for just that fixed monthly fee and that's the cost.

EXCEPT for the cost per contract for the ES which works out to $2.54 per r/t etcetc. Which means that you're paying fees per contract just like if using a broker! Yay?

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 chipps1983 
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Any discounts for Elite members from Tradovate ?

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 Big Mike 
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Hi guys,

It is my pleasure to welcome Ryan Hansen, President of Tradovate, for a webinar on Thursday, September 22nd @ 4:30 PM Eastern US.

This webinar is meant as an introduction to Tradovate, and to give everyone an opportunity to learn about their tools and ask questions.

Tradovate is a modern, cloud-based futures trading platform offering unlimited, commission-free trading for a flat price. No per-trade commissions, platform licensing fees, order routing fees, or mobile app fees.

Bullet points of the webinar:

- How commission-free trading works
- Desktop for Windows & Mac, web for Chrome, and mobile for iPhone, iPad, and Android
- DOM, charts, quotes, advanced orders, and more
- Third party analysis & trading tools

You can find Tradovate on their website:
https://www.tradovate.com/

Register for the event (space is limited):
https://on.futures.io/kmult

Mike

Here is the webinar recording:



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 Big Mike 
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What did everyone think of the webinar?

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 Anagami 
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What did everyone think of the webinar?

Mike

Intrigued by the product, turned off by the presentation (he shows how it is NOT done, reading off the slides in a boring, monotone voice). Also, the presentation could have been deeper. He just brushed the surface, merely stating info from their website.

"The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven." - Milton
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  #33 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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The presentation could be much better, the idea is interesting but I think they had better pin the tail on the donkey? Its just going to annoy many people pondering if they could maybe be of interest to them. Personally I see it as one of those times when failing to give worked for instance examples is detrimental.

So you need to pay $99 for 1 CME exchange and $139 for 4 exchanges.
$39 has only 1 month of sim + data is extra? Even pros need to switch to sim regularly to try things out so I don't see this as viable.
Plus a usable scalping platform, say Jigsaw at the moment which is not free I believe?

Well the break even varies but.. it seems to suit non-serious beginners who lack consistently (or basic math to work out the BE) and moderately high volume scalpers that already use Jigsaw?.

Sometimes if you can't say anything nice..you should not speak..

Am I missing something big that makes it otherwise compelling? It would be interesting to have my mind changed as I'm always looking for things to facilitate Latin American traders who don't have as deep pockets.

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  #34 (permalink)
mpxtreme
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Sounded like a powerpoint script read by someone who isn't a trader targeted at people who aren't real traders or just rank newbies.

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  #35 (permalink)
 Tradovate  Tradovate is an official Site Sponsor
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Rory View Post
So you need to pay $99 for 1 CME exchange and $139 for 4 exchanges.
$39 has only 1 month of sim + data is extra? Even pros need to switch to sim regularly to try things out so I don't see this as viable.
Plus a usable scalping platform, say Jigsaw at the moment which is not free I believe?

Thank you for the suggestions on how to improve the presentation and we will certainly consider those when creating presentations for future webinars.

To clarify on the market data, Tradovate covers the real-time market data cost for non-professionals in the annual option of our Active (1 CME Group exchange of your choice) and Advanced (all 4 CME Group exchanges). You can access all of the exchanges we offer (CME, CBOT, NYMEX, COMEX, Eurex, ICE US, and ICE Europe) and would simply pay the associated market data fees to any extra exchanges for which Tradovate did not cover the cost.

Many futures brokers don't cover any of the market data costs for their customers and we have heard this as a pain point for traders who don't want to pay extra for market data, so we wanted to offer something that helps in this area while giving customers the flexibility to choose what option works best for them.

The cost for Jigsaw and the other third party add-ons (Bookmap xRay and OFA) are not included in Tradovate's membership plan and you would simply pay those third parties to access their tools the same way you would for any other platform to which they connect. One thing to note is that Bookmap on Tradovate is a priced at $99 per month, which is lower than their standard price and currently exclusive to Tradovate.

If you are looking for a free scalping tool, take a look at our DOM. It is a great tool for trading in the order limit book and offers one-click trading, OCO bracket orders, volume histogram, link to quotes and we will be adding sweep limit orders shortly. You can test drive this in a risk-free simulated environment free for 14 days by registering here: https://futures.io/www.tradovate.com/futures-io.

If you have any other questions or need any additional information on what Tradovate has to offer, please let us know. Thanks!

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mpxtreme View Post
Sounded like a powerpoint script read by someone who isn't a trader targeted at people who aren't real traders or just rank newbies.

We have a blend of customers, ranging from traders coming to futures from other asset classes like stocks, ETFs, and FX to professional futures traders who are trading a significant amount of contracts.

For newer traders, Tradovate's membership plans starting at $39 per month allow them to start trading with a commitment lower than the platform cost alone at some brokers while potentially saving even more when they start trading more with our commission-free trading.

Active traders can see even more benefit, since you can save more as you trade more. For example, one of our customers posted in a forum that they are saving approximately $1,000 per month in commissions over their next best option and that figure didn't even factor in other costs, like platform fees (they also commented on Tradovate's platform performance in last week's FOMC announcement).

We encourage you to try the platform out for yourself and you can take a free 14-day trial by registering here: www.tradovate.com/futures-io.

If you have any questions on what Tradovate can offer, please let us know. Thanks!

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  #37 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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Hi @Tradovate may I confirm a detail on the pricing?

I assume so but the $99/$139 a month pricing will work out as:

$99 monthly or $139 monthly *12 so $1188 or $1668 as an upfront charge?

Thanks again,
Rory

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Laconic
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Rory View Post
Hi @Tradovate may I confirm a detail on the pricing?

I assume so but the $99/$139 a month pricing will work out as:

$99 monthly or $139 monthly *12 so $1188 or $1668 as an upfront charge?

Thanks again,
Rory

I believe that is correct.

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Rory
 
 
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Laconic View Post
I believe that is correct.

Seems so but if @Tradovate could confirm is the payment is staged or lump sum?

Otherwise describing it as costing $x a month is nonsensical.

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  #40 (permalink)
 Tradovate  Tradovate is an official Site Sponsor
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Rory View Post
Hi @Tradovate may I confirm a detail on the pricing?

I assume so but the $99/$139 a month pricing will work out as:

$99 monthly or $139 monthly *12 so $1188 or $1668 as an upfront charge?

Thanks again,
Rory

Yes, this is correct for the annual subscription term. We also offer a quarterly option for customers who would like to choose a shorter time commitment and you can upgrade your membership plan or subscription term at any time, so there is a lot of flexibility on where you can get started with Tradovate.

One other thing to note is that Tradovate covers the real-time market data cost for non-professionals in the annual option of our Active and Advanced membership plans (1 CME Group exchange of your choice in Active or all 4 of the CME Group exchanges in Advanced), so there is definitely extra value if you trade these products and don't want to pay extra for market data. We heard this as a pain point for traders who don't like being charged extra for market data by other brokers and we wanted to offer this option as a way to help solve this problem for our customers.

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  #41 (permalink)
 LDog 
Lexington KY/USA
 
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Sounds like if you like to trade the Russell a lot (and liked the platform), it could be a good idea.

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Rory
 
 
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LDog View Post
Sounds like if you like to trade the Russell a lot (and liked the platform), it could be a good idea.

Everyone has to pay pro fees for ICE now so there would be no saving I recon? They would have to charge the full whack for ICE like any broker.

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 LDog 
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Rory View Post
Everyone has to pay pro fees for ICE now so there would be no saving I recon? They would have to charge the full whack for ICE like any broker.

You're right - I just reread what he said about the included exchanges being for the CME Group ( which are $15 - $20 per month for the non-pro full bundle, elsewhere).

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  #44 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Hi guys,

I received this email today from Tradovate about the Jigsaw Trading partnership. Wanted to pass it along.



Here is the link:
Tradovate link

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 Big Mike 
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Hi guys,

Tradovate is now offering an Elite Partner discount for any FIO Elite Members, see below.

Note: futures.io does NOT receive compensation for these referrals, we simply worked out these special deals to help our Elite Members who have chosen to support the site. Even though we believe these are great products and services, you should always do your own research before doing business with a company.



Mike

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  #46 (permalink)
 chipps1983 
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Big Mike View Post
Hi guys,

Tradovate is now offering an Elite Partner discount for any FIO Elite Members, see below.

Note: futures.io does NOT receive compensation for these referrals, we simply worked out these special deals to help our Elite Members who have chosen to support the site. Even though we believe these are great products and services, you should always do your own research before doing business with a company.



Mike

@BigMike,

I applied for one 2 days back and did not get any response.

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  #47 (permalink)
 Tradovate  Tradovate is an official Site Sponsor
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@BigMike,

I applied for one 2 days back and did not get any response.

You should have received confirmation on this special offer from our support department. If you need any additional assistance, please let us know. Thanks!

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 chipps1983 
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You should have received confirmation on this special offer from our support department. If you need any additional assistance, please let us know. Thanks!

I have been told that the discount will be added to next renewal.

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 Big Mike 
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I received an email this morning and wanted to pass it along



Link:
https://trader.tradovate.com/register?camp=order-flow-analytics-tradovate&utm_campaign=Futures.io%20Campaign&utm_medium=OFA%20announcement&utm_source=Futures.io&utm_campaign=Futures.io+Campaign&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=39892950&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_KyOiYNHH6CX4la56t6ruU6tWo5BYMUvPRTGNcmRB1CND2ug6zzdvT-5_yTWIlkXoe-SgGzE6jVWz4i_9Lu5xCqwxuHg&_hsmi=39892950

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  #50 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Here is another one, about Bookmap xRay.



Link:
tradovate.com

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 Big Mike 
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Tradovate added Jigsaw to their platform now as well. I received the below email:



Link to Tradovate

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  #52 (permalink)
 sebastiano 
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Does anyone has any actual experiences with Tradovate? I'm quite ready to open an account with them.

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 Big Mike 
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Some more news from Tradovate regarding Market Replay



Blog post:
https://blog.tradovate.com/what-is-market-replay-and-why-do-people-love-it

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 Big Mike 
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Hi guys,

It seems Tradovate has been busy lately - they've just released Sierra Chart according to an email I received:



Get Sierra Chart at Tradovate

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 jackbravo 
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Ooooohhh....

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

"It does not matter how slowly you go, as long as you do not stop." Confucius
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Laconic
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sebastiano View Post
Does anyone has any actual experiences with Tradovate? I'm quite ready to open an account with them.

I have been trading with Tradovate since September 2016 and I thought I'd share some of my experiences and impressions:

1. They are really cheap.
Tradovate advertises "commission free trading." In reality, they as an IB charge you a small annual fee, and then you pay a 9 cents per side fee that goes to their FCM (along with applicable exchange and regulatory fees). They call the fee that gets passed to their FCM a "clearing fee" hence the "commission free trading." Now, no customer would actually agree that this is commission free, but on the other hand if they just advertised "really low commissions" they would not stand out in the crowd -- and at the level they charge, they do deserve to stand out. It is hard for me to imagine a retail trader getting fees close to this anywhere else. (Apparently at one time Optimus may have offered a flat annual fee, but I talked to Matt briefly when I was investigating Tradovate and he said that he did not want to do it anymore.)

2. I have had a very good customer service experience.
There were a few knotty issues surrounding my account opening and I dealt directly with Ryan Hansen, President of Tradovate, and he did a great job for me. The other folks I have worked with regarding trade support, technical support, suggested platform enhancements, etc. have all been responsive and very helpful. Now of course, the firm was very new when I started, so at that time they probably had the highest "employee to customer ratio" in the industry and it remains to be seen if they are able to provide the same quality of service as they grow. But, so far, so good.

3. The data feed is rock solid.
Tradovate uses CQG data, and that cost is included in the Tradovate annual fee. (Customers pay the monthly data fee required by each exchange that they trade on.) I have traded exclusively on Tradovate since September, and I cannot say that the data froze, lagged or crashed even once in that time. Before September I was at Tradestation for many years, and with respect to the data feed, my Tradovate experience is much, much better.

4. The DOM is quite good.
The DOM seems relatively full functioned. The most complicated order I use is an Order Cancels Order with a limit and a stop when I am in a position, and the Tradovate DOM accommodates this perfectly. I cannot speak to other more complicated bracket orders. One thing I don't like: With the Tradestation DOM, you left-clicked to place an order, and the software knew by the location of the click whether it was buy or sell and stop or limit. With Tradovate, it's left click for limit and right click for stop. So, if you're trying to place a sell stop below the market and you accidentally left click, it's a sell limit order below the market, which is actually a sell at market order. I don't like that at all.

5. Great third party integrations.
Designing the platform from scratch, Tradovate seems to have made it a priority to be able to integrate seamlessly popular third party products. I use Bookmap on Tradovate; they also offer integration with Jigsaw, Order Flow Analytics, and, I've recently seen, Sierra Chart. They do a really good job of this integration.

6. Charting is promising but a work in progress.
Charts look good, and the functionality of changing the type of chart, adding and modifying indicators, etc. is very thoughtfully implemented. Indicators are Open Source in java script so you can do your own work if you choose. However, there's just not enough there yet in terms of types of charts, number of indicators, flexibility to do various profile analyses, etc. I suspect most serious traders will want another charting platform (which means some additional platform and data expenses!) The recent announcement of the ability to integrate with Sierra Chart could be a game changer in this regard. That's something I need to look into. I use Investor R/T now, but if Tradovate plus SC gets me all the things I need and works out to be cheaper than what I am paying now, I would definitely consider switching. (Or, maybe Tradovate will offer Investor R/T integration at some point?)

7. No continuous futures contracts (yet?)
This is another reason most serious traders will want another charting package. If you want to do any sort of historical analysis more than a month or two back, continuous futures contracts are a must. Tradovate has said this feature is perhaps coming in the future. I feel it is essential.

8. No "Day Session" contracts
I primarily trade ES, and I like to be able to look at price action and volume on both a "Day Session" and "24-hour Session" basis. Tradovate only offers the "24-Hour Session." So for example, the volume histogram on the DOM always includes the overnight volume. As with continuous futures contracts, I feel the ability to look at Day Session ad 24-hour Session data separately is an essential feature.

All in all, Tradovate offers a great product at an unbeatable price and I am a very happy customer. There is a lot they can add to make the product better, but based on the pace of their development thus far, they seem committed to the goal of getting retail traders everything they need in a solid platform at the lowest price possible.

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  #57 (permalink)
 jackbravo 
SF, CA/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC
Broker: Stage 5
Trading: NQ....that's what it boils down to
 
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Posts: 1,339 since Jun 2014
Thanks: 4,346 given, 2,389 received

They peaked my interest when they announced integration with Sierra Chart. I'm not sure though how their first option for SC is any different than just having SC charts up and clicking on the Tradovate DOM. Their second option for SC looks like the real integration but comes with extra fees.....diminishes the differential between other brokers. Still haven't done the calculations yet to figure out the number of contracts to see a benefit switching to tradovate.

"It does not matter how slowly you go, as long as you do not stop." Confucius
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  #58 (permalink)
Laconic
New York, New York, USA
 
 
Posts: 30 since Jun 2016
Thanks: 12 given, 40 received


jackbravo View Post
They peaked my interest when they announced integration with Sierra Chart. I'm not sure though how their first option for SC is any different than just having SC charts up and clicking on the Tradovate DOM. Their second option for SC looks like the real integration but comes with extra fees.....diminishes the differential between other brokers. Still haven't done the calculations yet to figure out the number of contracts to see a benefit switching to tradovate.

Seems to me that the "first option" as you call it allows you to use Tradovate's CQG data feed to power Sierra Chart. My guess is that is probably cheaper than other options, although I am not an expert on Sierra Chart.

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  #59 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
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Posts: 50,028 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,487 given, 98,346 received

Just back from vacation and noticed this in my email inbox, so am passing it on here:


Quoting 

Tradovate is pleased to announce the addition of Jigsaw RapidTraderPro!

Jigsaw RapidTraderPro at Tradovate:

Now there are two ways you can use Jigsaw tools at Tradovate. First, you can choose Jigsaw tools fully integrated into Tradovate's platform. Second, you can also use Jigsaw RapidTraderPro at Tradovate.

As a special offer Tradovate is offering RapidTraderPro with no Tradovate Memembership Fee while RapidTraderPro is in beta. This is an ultra aggressive offer that will allow you to trade the ES for only $1.28 per side plus a CGQ order routing fee of $0.15 or $1.43 total per side. Once RapidTraderPro is moved out of beta it will fall under Tradovate's Active Membership Plan.

In addition, you get access to Tradovate's platform that includes Jigsaw tools for On-Demand Market Replay. Use Tradovate's On-Demand Market Replay to test strategies with Jigsaw tools and trade in simulation.

Get Started Today with RapidTraderPro at Tradovate >>

Jigsaw customers at Tradovate get:
• Jigsaw's Depth & Sales to view important market action and place trades
• Jigsaw's Auction Vista heatmap to view historical and current order flow
• Jigsaw's Reconstructed Tape to track small and large trader activity
• Price action swing indicator for viewing swing charts
• Cumulative delta indicator for viewing market order activity
• $0 platform licensing, order routing, or mobile app fees
• $500 day trading margins for E-mini S&P 500, Nasdaq 100, Dow, Mini-Russell 2000, US Treasury Bond, & 10-Year T-Note
Futures and options trading involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.

Customer Support Team | Tradovate, LLC
d: 312.283.3100 e: support@tradovate.com w: tradovate.com

Futures and options trading involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance of a futures or options contract does not guarantee future results or return.

Mike

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  #60 (permalink)
 yngtrader 
minneapolis
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: ninjatrader
Trading: es
 
Posts: 6 since Apr 2013
Thanks: 4 given, 1 received

Has anyone used Tradovate along with ninja charts which would require two data streams as I understand it. Would need to run both in parallel. Have tradovate open to execute trade for low commission and then use ninja to do the charting (have developed indicators etc that are specific to ninja). As I understand it I would need 2 data streams into the same PC. Wondering if other traders have done this and what was their experience? or are there other ways to do this.
Thank you in advance

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  #61 (permalink)
Laconic
New York, New York, USA
 
 
Posts: 30 since Jun 2016
Thanks: 12 given, 40 received


yngtrader View Post
Has anyone used Tradovate along with ninja charts which would require two data streams as I understand it. Would need to run both in parallel. Have tradovate open to execute trade for low commission and then use ninja to do the charting (have developed indicators etc that are specific to ninja). As I understand it I would need 2 data streams into the same PC. Wondering if other traders have done this and what was their experience? or are there other ways to do this.
Thank you in advance

I'll offer my thoughts:
1. I use Tradovate and use their CQG feed to power Sierra. Tradovate/CQG charges an extra $12/month for this. You can ask Tradovate if they will allow you to use the CQG feed to power Ninja, although according to the Ninja website, you have to have been a Ninja license holder prior to March 10, 2015 to use CQG with Ninja. If a lot of development is required by Tradovate to do this (as opposed to copying what they have done for Sierra) I am guessing they will decline, as Ninja clearly is not signing up new clients with CQG feeds. Hopefully that makes sense.
2. Alternatively, you can look into programming your indicators, or hiring someone to program your indicators, in either Tradovate (javascript) or Sierra (C++). For Tradovate, to take advantage of the programming, you need the $99/month (paid in advance for a year) plan. For the Sierra option, it's the Tradovate $59/month (paid in advance for a year) plus Sierra (as cheap as $22/month for service package 5 w/mkt & vol profile if paid in advance for a year) plus the $12/month to use the CQG feed on Sierra. (Even cheaper if you don't need the profile.)

Hope this helps.

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  #62 (permalink)
 Mftkn 
Düsseldorf, Germany
 
Experience: None
Platform: TT
Trading: ES, FDAX,FGBL
 
Posts: 26 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 124 given, 26 received

@Laconic

Is it possible to trade from both platforms (Tradovate Online/ Sierra) at the same time?
Like Sierra for charting and the orders are placed thru Tradovate DOM?

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  #63 (permalink)
Laconic
New York, New York, USA
 
 
Posts: 30 since Jun 2016
Thanks: 12 given, 40 received


Mftkn View Post
@Laconic

Is it possible to trade from both platforms (Tradovate Online/ Sierra) at the same time?
Like Sierra for charting and the orders are placed thru Tradovate DOM?

Yes that is exactly what I do. As I stated above, if you use Sierra for charting anyway, you will probably be happy with the $59/month (paid annually in advance) tier of Tradovate. And Sierra gives great discounts for annual payment as well.

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  #64 (permalink)
 Mightynorsman 
Albany, New York, USA & sometimes Central Florida
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradovate+Jigsaw, TOS
Broker: Tradovate/CQG, TOS/Pony Express
Trading: Energies, Indexes, Grains
 
Posts: 159 since Mar 2016
Thanks: 544 given, 361 received

I am testing a demo of tradovate and using the jigsaw trading tools plugin for trade execution. I think tradovate will grow it's platform but coming over from TOS (another java) platform as it is now Tradovate's platform is lacking a lot of features in comparison. That said I am eagerly trying to find a way to make it work as the price savings of their flat rate model are substantial . . . extremely substantial from TOS.

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  #65 (permalink)
 SARdynamite 
Belgium
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: SaxoTrader
Broker: SaxoBank
Trading: ESTX
 
Posts: 292 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 243 given, 110 received

I asked some management staff that Tradovate supports signals' marketplaces like iSystem & Striker on top of Collective2 (already supported)

I was told that it would be considered if there would be enough customer demand showing on their Community forum

So here it is
https://tradovate.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115008528188-Striker-and-iSystem-support

Please show your interest there if you mind

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  #66 (permalink)
edgarlemos
Portugal
 
 
Posts: 16 since Aug 2015
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

Anyone here used their Market Replay? Any thoughts?

I'm thinking about openning a Free-Membership account with 1000$ (if this is needed) and then pay the 69$/Month not for trading but just for Market Replay. Have anyone done that? Is it possible?
Are there any extra fees like Data Feed's or Inactivity fees? For this purpose.

Regards

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  #67 (permalink)
 rdaytrader 
Netherlands
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TWS & SierraChart
Broker: InteractiveBrokers & Sierra
Trading: DAX & Bund
 
Posts: 275 since Jun 2013
Thanks: 640 given, 353 received

yes there are still market data fees, but it's not much

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  #68 (permalink)
 Mightynorsman 
Albany, New York, USA & sometimes Central Florida
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradovate+Jigsaw, TOS
Broker: Tradovate/CQG, TOS/Pony Express
Trading: Energies, Indexes, Grains
 
Posts: 159 since Mar 2016
Thanks: 544 given, 361 received

Just talked to Rick at support at tradovate and was told that if you sign up for the $69/month plan which comes with market replay there are no other costs. Of course if you want to trade than the $99/month plan gives you trading and market replay.

I am in no way affiliated with them. I am using Topsteptrader's platform which is a badged version of Tradovate and have used the market replay in the evenings to trade out ideas that I wanted to try the next day. It has been helpful for me and seems to be easy to use.

Mighty

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  #69 (permalink)
TraderEX
 
 
Posts: 96 since Sep 2018
Thanks: 68 given, 177 received

I started with GO Futures(.99 per side) and then Generic Futures(.59 per side) Both through Ironbeam. I subscribe to the notion that if you have nothing good to say you do not offer it out of the blue.

So, about tradovate.

I found them when I was looking to find a more suitable home for my scalping. To me, when the service is 100%, free platform and club pricing, I had to try it. I am still with them 2 years later.

Free platform- I had to pay $49.95 a month with the first guys. With Tradovate it's free and that means I'm $50 ahead from the start.

Customer service- First guys, none. When I called I was at risk for up selling. was offered 500 day rates for the ES with a $35 per side commission rate. I was also called every two weeks or so by someone different under the guise that they were seeing if all was well. say one thing is not good and they will sell you whatever you need to make things better.
Tradovate offers 500 day rates to all, upfront and in the advertisement. Andrew Sevin (7) uns the show for customer service and is flawless to date. I do not call very much as I have no problems with the things promised. I called in the past when I didn't know how to retrieve some functions. If I had read the help button I would have never called(chat box not a call). took me time from PTSD that the first guys dumped on me. While trading under Tradovate at the beginning, if the phone rang I hid under the covers and then unplugged the phone. someone knocked on the door, I ran to the basement...

About Club Pricing-You are a member, not a client. Three current plans to choose from. No plan- $0.79 per side. Intermediate plan- $99.00 flat and $0.19 per side. unlimited round turns- $199.00. These are prepaid by the month and a discount is available by the year.

Break-even analysis($199.00)- no plan $199.00/(0.79 x 2)= 126 roughly intermediate plan $199.00/$99.00 +$0.19 per side) roughly 270

Conclusion. As a member there you get top customer service from 7 and his crew. You get a free platform to use. And the ability to grow within the club as you mature.
If you trade,
125 contracts or less per month then 0.79 per side is your best deal
between 125 and 270 contracts then intermediate is for you
All others start saving from the 270 plus mark. you save whatever someone else would charge you.

For me, unlimited is the boss and I just figure in 50 a week or 10 a day if I trade all 5 days. On days that I am slightly ahead, say 100 or so, most of that comes from what I did not pay someone else. A very happy customer there.

EX

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  #70 (permalink)
 aircal 
Keller, TX USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradestation, NinjaTrader
Trading: YM, ES, CL
 
Posts: 42 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 1 given, 38 received

The Jigsaw Daytradr bridge to Tradovate has been released - no more connection fees

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  #71 (permalink)
 researcher247 
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: Advanced
 
Posts: 426 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 255 given, 751 received


TraderEX View Post
I started with GO Futures(.99 per side) and then Generic Futures(.59 per side) Both through Ironbeam. I subscribe to the notion that if you have nothing good to say you do not offer it out of the blue.

So, about tradovate.

I found them when I was looking to find a more suitable home for my scalping. To me, when the service is 100%, free platform and club pricing, I had to try it. I am still with them 2 years later.

Free platform- I had to pay $49.95 a month with the first guys. With Tradovate it's free and that means I'm $50 ahead from the start.

Customer service- First guys, none. When I called I was at risk for up selling. was offered 500 day rates for the ES with a $35 per side commission rate. I was also called every two weeks or so by someone different under the guise that they were seeing if all was well. say one thing is not good and they will sell you whatever you need to make things better.
Tradovate offers 500 day rates to all, upfront and in the advertisement. Andrew Sevin (7) uns the show for customer service and is flawless to date. I do not call very much as I have no problems with the things promised. I called in the past when I didn't know how to retrieve some functions. If I had read the help button I would have never called(chat box not a call). took me time from PTSD that the first guys dumped on me. While trading under Tradovate at the beginning, if the phone rang I hid under the covers and then unplugged the phone. someone knocked on the door, I ran to the basement...

About Club Pricing-You are a member, not a client. Three current plans to choose from. No plan- $0.79 per side. Intermediate plan- $99.00 flat and $0.19 per side. unlimited round turns- $199.00. These are prepaid by the month and a discount is available by the year.

Break-even analysis($199.00)- no plan $199.00/(0.79 x 2)= 126 roughly intermediate plan $199.00/$99.00 +$0.19 per side) roughly 270

Conclusion. As a member there you get top customer service from 7 and his crew. You get a free platform to use. And the ability to grow within the club as you mature.
If you trade,
125 contracts or less per month then 0.79 per side is your best deal
between 125 and 270 contracts then intermediate is for you
All others start saving from the 270 plus mark. you save whatever someone else would charge you.

For me, unlimited is the boss and I just figure in 50 a week or 10 a day if I trade all 5 days. On days that I am slightly ahead, say 100 or so, most of that comes from what I did not pay someone else. A very happy customer there.

EX

Now that's a REVIEW! Bravo.

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  #72 (permalink)
 Blaster666 
Buenos Aires Argentina
 
Experience: None
Platform: TWS
Trading: Micro ES
 
Posts: 44 since Mar 2018
Thanks: 32 given, 30 received

To those users of this site who have traded with Tradovate ...

What was your experience with the platform per se?

It was accurate and effective? Or someone found some failures on the platform?

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  #73 (permalink)
 rdaytrader 
Netherlands
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TWS & SierraChart
Broker: InteractiveBrokers & Sierra
Trading: DAX & Bund
 
Posts: 275 since Jun 2013
Thanks: 640 given, 353 received

Yes, they're pretty good in terms of pricing. Especially if you make a lot of trades per month (500+).
Their platform is in constant development, and although it looks nice, it's nowhere near reliable software like Sierra Chart.
Another thing is that their trades go through Dorman and I found their executions are slightly worse than Interactive Brokers.

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  #74 (permalink)
caacapital
Detroit, MI/USA
 
 
Posts: 38 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 2 given, 9 received

I had tradovate they were ok if you trade alot but I found that it was actually cheaper to go with the broker I'm with now and at 0.79/commission its definitely not worth it to be restricted to their platform or pay a connection. Also tradovate still needs work on their software during volatility you will notice stalls maybe they fixed that but commissions werent competitive enough to warrant renewing

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  #75 (permalink)
 Rrrracer 
Webinar Host
Roamin' the countryside
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: SierraChart
Broker: CQG
Trading: All Micros, especially the ones that move
 
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Posts: 2,402 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 16,624 given, 9,099 received

One can use Sierrachart with Tradovate, but there is a monthly fee to do so plus CME data charges, IIRC.

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  #76 (permalink)
ClearTrades
Yakima WA
 
 
Posts: 28 since Mar 2019
Thanks: 67 given, 20 received


Blaster666 View Post
To those users of this site who have traded with Tradovate ...

What was your experience with the platform per se?

It was accurate and effective? Or someone found some failures on the platform?

I have been using Tradovate now for about a month and plan to continue with them. I haven't run into any real problems or issues. Everything is on the cloud so it uses their resources to run so you dont need a high powered computer to use it just a decent internet connection. I am not trading enough contracts to warrant the monthly fee for free commissions yet, and even without those plans, $.79 is still cheaper than Ninjatrader which I think is like $.83 or something.
Anyway, you have to pay like $7 per month for exchange data+DOM data and it is a couple dollars per month for each exchange data stream you add.
The simulated paper-trading works really well. It seems like it remembers the place you enter into a position at and fills in order of the actual flow. So if you put a limit order in your order will get filled after it runs through the contracts ahead of you.
I think you have to pay like $35 extra to get market replay.

The charts could have more indicators but I use tradingview for most of my charting. The Tradovate charts are better looking and easier to navigate than RTraderPro if you have used that. Tradovate has a way to build custom indicators too and share them to the community for download. I was able to download the Awesome Oscillator somone had built and it pops right into the list of other indicators and ready to use.
The default sign-up option is with Dorman. If you contact support before you sign up and ask, they can also give you a link to to sign up with Phillip Capital instead which has ACH banking, which Dorman is doesn't. I signed up with Dorman and they email you a summary everyday of your account if you traded that day.
The Tradovate customer service was good. They responded to every email I asked a question on within a half hour during the normal business day.
And they don't spam my email with promotions and marketing which is nice.

Edit: Also forgot to mention that in simulated trading, it simulates the commissions and fees costs so you can get real profit lost estimates that factor in the trading fees. That is really nice imo.

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  #77 (permalink)
 Blaster666 
Buenos Aires Argentina
 
Experience: None
Platform: TWS
Trading: Micro ES
 
Posts: 44 since Mar 2018
Thanks: 32 given, 30 received

Thank you all for the answers.

My main fear is about unauthorized execution of trades without my consent. Or a failure on the platform so that there is a loss of funds.

I guess Phillip Capital is good enough, reliable FCM.

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  #78 (permalink)
ClearTrades
Yakima WA
 
 
Posts: 28 since Mar 2019
Thanks: 67 given, 20 received


Blaster666 View Post
Thank you all for the answers.

My main fear is about unauthorized execution of trades without my consent. Or a failure on the platform so that there is a loss of funds.

I guess Phillip Capital is good enough, reliable FCM.

Okay, yeah, I know that at least with Dorman Trading the money is wired to BMO Harris Bank out of Chicago.
I would definitely practice on the simulation account first until you get the hang of placing orders though. You can trade from the chart, from buttons and directly from the DOM, and you have to be especially careful with that because it is 1-click instant trading depending on a right-click or a left-click on the DOM. It will place a stop order or limit order in 1 click depending on where you click on the DOM order book and if you are unsure what your mouse clicks will do you could potentially make bad trades.
They have bracket orders and advanced oco and oso orders too which is what I mainly use...so that once my trade is filled it sets my target and stop loss and once my target is filled it automatically cancels my stop loss order. I select order types first and then put in the prices. That's what I have found to work the best for ensuring accurate trades. Double check everything of course. Your trade positions show up on the DOM and on the chart so it is easy to see.

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  #79 (permalink)
 matthew28 
Legendary Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw daytradr
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
 
matthew28's Avatar
 
Posts: 985 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 2,468 given, 1,772 received

@Blaster666
I used Tradovate and TSTrader at various times and was happy (TSTrader is the Topstep Trader branded version of the Tradovate platform).
I use Jigsaw trading tools and they work with a data bridge off Tradovate very well. I have also found Tradovate support very helpful when required.
The only issue I had is that the platform can use a lot of CPU during fast markets. Especially now they have added orderflow tools. The footprint chart for instance I tried but found there were periods where the price line was moving up and down with price but the numbers showing the volume transacted weren't changing and the chart would need to be reloaded. Or adding volume profiles to a chart puts the CPU load up too (processor i7-4771 3.5 GHZ quad core, so a good processor but about three or four years old). My view is the platform has everything I want but I think it will benefit from time allowing performance improvements from the developers to work through the system.
There is an iphone app for Tradovate so if the platform goes down that can be used for position management if required.

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
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  #80 (permalink)
 Blaster666 
Buenos Aires Argentina
 
Experience: None
Platform: TWS
Trading: Micro ES
 
Posts: 44 since Mar 2018
Thanks: 32 given, 30 received

Well ... surfing on Internet I found some videos from a guy named Marcelo Arrambide (day trading academy) of which I think is a suspicious person ... I don't like his "academy" ...

Well ... this guy founded a company named Speedup Trader ... in short it is a platform to trade futures (without NFA regulation) ...

This platform is the same as Tradovate's platform ... when logging in https://speedup.tradovate.com/ with my demo credentials from trader.tradovate.com ... then I can get demo from speedup trader

Maybe Tradovate's platform is in fact Speedup Trader's platform?

As for what I know, Topstep Trader neither has NFA regulation ...

My interest is a broker with a regulated, legit, reliable platform ...

Please tell me if I am wrong with some of these paragraphs above. Thx.

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  #81 (permalink)
 matthew28 
Legendary Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw daytradr
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
 
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Posts: 985 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 2,468 given, 1,772 received


Blaster666 View Post
Maybe Tradovate's platform is in fact Speedup Trader's platform?
.

It will be Tradovate's platform. Never heard of Speedup but if their platform looks like Tradovate it will just be a licensed version relabeled. In the same way the Topstep Trader version of Tradovate's platform is called TSTrader.
(It is common to license another platform rather than try to develop their own, and much more desirable for the broker's users to have a solid trading platform).

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
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  #82 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
 
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Posts: 6,460 since Jan 2013
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Blaster666 View Post
Well ... surfing on Internet I found some videos from a guy named Marcelo Arrambide (day trading academy) of which I think is a suspicious person ... I don't like his "academy" ...

Well ... this guy founded a company named Speedup Trader ... in short it is a platform to trade futures (without NFA regulation) ...

This platform is the same as Tradovate's platform ... when logging in https://speedup.tradovate.com/ with my demo credentials from trader.tradovate.com ... then I can get demo from speedup trader

Maybe Tradovate's platform is in fact Speedup Trader's platform?

As for what I know, Topstep Trader neither has NFA regulation ...

My interest is a broker with a regulated, legit, reliable platform ...

Please tell me if I am wrong with some of these paragraphs above. Thx.

I agree with @matthew28 on the Tradovate platform question. Tradovate offers a version of its platform for Topstep, and apparently for Speedup also.

I do not really understand the NFA regulation question. All trading in the US futures markets is regulated by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), a government body, and all brokers are required to be members of the National Futures Association, an industry self-regulatory association. It is not possible to trade futures in a US exchange without using a broker that is subject to these organizations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Futures_Association

Topstep Trader is not a broker. It is a trading firm which makes trades through brokers. If you get a funded account with them, it is an account with a broker that is subject to normal regulation, and that is a member of NFA. Topstep does not, and cannot, make trades any other way. I do not know anything about Speedup Trader (never heard of them), but from a quick Google search it seems that it is in the same business as TST and the others (how many of these things are going to be created???) and any trading it does has to go through a regulated broker.

The subject of a "trading platform" has nothing to do with any regulation or regulatory organization. A "platform" is just a type of computer software that displays prices and lets the user enter trades, which are routed electronically through a regulated broker to the exchange to be executed. Many brokers offer their customers a large number of trading platforms they can use, and there are software companies that develop these platforms for use by different brokers. Some brokers, like Tradovate, have their own trading platform that they offer to their clients, and some trading firms offer that platform to their traders as a choice they can make. Topstep offers their traders a large number of platforms, including a version of Tradovate they call TSTrader... but you can use NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart, and about a dozen others if you like. If you use the TSTrader version of the Tradovate platform software with a Topstep account, your trades will go to the Tradovate brokerage company for execution. If you use a different platform, it will go to a different broker, depending on the arrangements made by Topstep. They execute through several different brokers.

It happens that the Tradovate brokerage firm has its own trading platform software, and it prefers you to use it. But I just checked, and they also support 7 other popular trading platforms (most brokers support several): https://www.tradovate.com/platform/third-party-platforms-at-tradovate/ . If you use any of these platforms with your Tradovate account, the trades will be routed through the data/trading network used by Tradovate to the exchange and will be shown in your Tradovate brokerage account.

So to sum up, the "trading platform" is just a software tool on your computer; it routes your trades via an electronic network to your broker, which is always a regulated brokerage firm, and then to the exchange, also a regulated organization, where the trades are executed with other traders and then the results are sent back to you and are shown on your computer by whichever trading platform you use. All futures trading in the US is regulated.

Sorry if this is too obvious or elementary, or if I didn't understand your question. I couldn't think of any other way to respond to the questions about a "regulated platform" except to go through how it actually works, since there is no such thing as a "regulated platform" -- only regulated brokerage firms, which are also separate from firms like Topstep or Speedup, but which must be used by these firms, as well as by any other persons or organizations making futures trades.

I hope this answered your questions.

Bob.

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  #83 (permalink)
 Blaster666 
Buenos Aires Argentina
 
Experience: None
Platform: TWS
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Thx

The fact that Tradovate is somehow related or associated to these suspicious companies makes me doubt

I've just sent mail to Tradovate to ask for this subject

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  #84 (permalink)
 Blaster666 
Buenos Aires Argentina
 
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matthew28 View Post
It will be Tradovate's platform. Never heard of Speedup but if their platform looks like Tradovate it will just be a licensed version relabeled. In the same way the Topstep Trader version of Tradovate's platform is called TSTrader.
(It is common to license another platform rather than try to develop their own, and much more desirable for the broker's users to have a solid trading platform).

Some minutes ago Tradovate answered a mail I had sent ... It answered that the platform is in fact property and creation of Tradovate

As you said, thx

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 Blaster666 
Buenos Aires Argentina
 
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Posts: 44 since Mar 2018
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I've just opened a Live account with Tradovate. But after practicing a while, I have a doubt.

Some days ago I opened a demo account with fake mail, personal data, etc just to practice.

Today I opened the live account with my actual mail and personal data.

The demo and live account are not related in any way.

But when I log in on demo account I see that when I configure it in some way .... later when I log in on live account, surprisingly I see that this one is configured the same way that the demo account ...

That's to say ... I can set up/configure the chart, DOM, etc from a different demo account to my live account, although they are no related.

I asked for this to Tradovate, but the answer was not concrete.

Is this a security bug of the platform?

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 ratfink 
Birmingham UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: TST/Rithmic
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Blaster666 View Post

But when I log in on demo account I see that when I configure it in some way .... later when I log in on live account, surprisingly I see that this one is configured the same way that the demo account ...

That's to say ... I can set up/configure the chart, DOM, etc from a different demo account to my live account, although they are no related.

I asked for this to Tradovate, but the answer was not concrete.

Is this a security bug of the platform?

Sounds like it's using cookies in the browser or some other local storage file related to your Windows login rather than the platform account login. Just a guess mind.

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ClearTrades
Yakima WA
 
 
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Curious what was their answer? Maybe related to your temporary internet files? Or ip address? Im not an IT guy so not sure.

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  #88 (permalink)
 Blaster666 
Buenos Aires Argentina
 
Experience: None
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Trading: Micro ES
 
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ClearTrades View Post
Curious what was their answer? Maybe related to your temporary internet files? Or ip address? Im not an IT guy so not sure.

"That demo account is registered to a different name and email address. You have a different demo account linked to this email address. In either case, you can use the same workspace for both demo and live account. If you click the + in the top left corner of your current demo account, you can hover over your workspace name and export it and then in the same area when you are logged into your live account, you can import that workspace."

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  #89 (permalink)
Kalisto
Geneva, Switzerland
 
 
Posts: 64 since Dec 2015
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Are there some of you who managed to be granted lower intraday margins for the FDAX than half the overnigh margin ? Something close to the levels of what AMP and NinjaTrader offer ($2500) ?
Also interested to know about the FESX and FGBL, what type of custom intraday margin you got on special request. Because at the moment, I am told to open an account before doing such request from the online platform. Thank you
Maybe their decision is motivated by the risk experience of the trader based on history ?

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  #90 (permalink)
Kalisto
Geneva, Switzerland
 
 
Posts: 64 since Dec 2015
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Many disconnection reports between CQG and SierraChart
https://www.sierrachart.com/SupportBoard.php?do=Search&LimitToForum=-1&Query=Cqg+disconnection&Submit_Search=Search&SortMode=3

Are you experiencing discomfort associating SierraChart to Tradovate ?

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  #91 (permalink)
Laconic
New York, New York, USA
 
 
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no issues at all

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  #92 (permalink)
Laconic
New York, New York, USA
 
 
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I have to say the Sierra Chart Engineering response is strange, although they obviously want you to buy their data.

A long time ago I used a broker that used Gain data, then I used TradeStation. When I first started with Tradovate, they did not offer a connection to SierraChart, so I used Sierra with IQFeed. Since Tradovate has offered the SierraChart conection, I have used that, and that data service has been the most reliable I have ever used, by a lot.

Of course, that's my experience only.

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  #93 (permalink)
Kalisto
Geneva, Switzerland
 
 
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Thanks for the feedback (Here, they advise to use their TT order routing over CQG, not their data).

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  #94 (permalink)
Kalisto
Geneva, Switzerland
 
 
Posts: 64 since Dec 2015
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Sierra continues to take steps away from CQG, following failure reports.
https://www.sierrachart.com/SupportBoard.php?ThreadID=46171
https://www.sierrachart.com/SupportBoard.php?ThreadID=46231

For those who achieve a stable reliable order routing at Tradovate w/ SC, are you using CQG FIX or CQG WebAPI ?

Notwithstanding the above mentioned, users should request SC to integrate directly with the Tradovate API to avoid unnecessary CQG connection fee and extra commissions per side

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  #95 (permalink)
 mojord 
Kansas City, MO
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradovate
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 239 since Jan 2014
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anyone have any recent experience or thoughts on tradovate?

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  #96 (permalink)
Laconic
New York, New York, USA
 
 
Posts: 30 since Jun 2016
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I still use them and all of my earlier comments in this thread still apply. I am a happy customer.

Biggest drawback is the charting. They are adding capabilities, but slowly. Of course if you can program JavaScript you can do anything you want. But as a non programmer I use Sierra for charts. Tradovate allows you to use their CQG data feed in Sierra for $12/month.

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  #97 (permalink)
 133usd 
Portland, ME
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw, TOS, Firetip
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mojord View Post
anyone have any recent experience or thoughts on tradovate?


I can give you my thoughts and experience about Tradovate! Nothing but positive things to say!!!

I've been with Tradovate since March 2020. Prior to that, I was a long time ThinkorSwim (TOS) user. I still like and use TOS charting (desktop application). I had to leave TOS due to the rediculous commission on futures (both MICROS and MINI). With Micros, I was paying a crazy$3.50 per round trip or so. So I felt "forced" into trading mini size, which was the wrong reason to be trading mini contracts. I called TOS and they barely budged lower on commissions and I had a pretty good sized account, so they really LOST bad on my business!

I moved over to my new home Tradovate, continued to trade as I did before. I was seeing green and able to stay ahead of commissions, so I did the unlimited commissions plan, cost like $2399 for 12 months. I didn't have daytrade margins with thinkorswim... Combined with low commission? I'm smashing it right now. Traded almost 30,000 contracts from march to now. I am in profit for the year. Kinda fricken sweet for me. Might sound like a train wreck to others lol.

So when people say, just trade better and don't worry about commissions.... NO, you NEED to worry about every F*king penny! That's YOUR money that YOU should keep!


Tradovate is an IB for Doorman. Zero problems moving money in and out. Customer service is AWESOME. Only pain in the A$$ is that you need to use a wire to move more than $3k in a lump sum. Up to 3k can be ACH.
You'll pay the $7 for data or whatever it costs, and for Depth and Top of Book etc. Each exchange will cost you for data, CBOT, CME, COMEX, EUREX, blah blah.

Tech wise: I'm not into their charts. But execution is quite fast VS TOS. With TOS, I was getting left in the dust at the open, and my MARKET orders wouldn't even fill! It still can happen with any broker, but a lot less with Tradovate.
If I wanted more speed, I would figure out how to co-locate, but as of right now that's not my big burning issue.

icing on the cake: datafeed connects to Jigsaw, so you'll be covered if you want to read trade flow/orderflow!
Thank god for Tradovate. Not sure how I could ever get by. I hated ever other platform I tested out there.
I even tried another broker with a platform called "Firetip"....lol, it was so confusing I lost money because I didn't realize I had open orders on the books! With Tradovate, that never happens to me. I know I'm closed out each and every day.

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  #98 (permalink)
Psiphon
Cleveland, OH
 
 
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I am newer to the platform but have been using it for (I think its like a sister company or something) that uses them for their trading test.

Its a night and day difference between ToS and Tradovate. Even though ToS felt a little more mature, the platform, data, and order execution felt slow, and the fee's from TD Ameritrade were horrific.

Margin and fees are far more reasonable, with a snappy platform, that's a win win to me. (I use their desktop download as it feels like its even more responsive, and it does a good job remembering/recalling your workspace + multi monitor support)

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