NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Does time have meaning as price is trending or turning? Tick vs Min candles


Discussion in Traders Hideout

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one JohnPS with 7 posts (2 thanks)
    2. looks_two aquarian1 with 4 posts (1 thanks)
    3. looks_3 futuretrader with 2 posts (0 thanks)
    4. looks_4 dutchbookmaker with 2 posts (0 thanks)
    1. trending_up 12,295 views
    2. thumb_up 4 thanks given
    3. group 7 followers
    1. forum 23 posts
    2. attach_file 3 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Does time have meaning as price is trending or turning? Tick vs Min candles

  #1 (permalink)
 JohnPS 
Dewitt Mi
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Amp/CQG and Infinity
Trading: Futures
Posts: 52 since Sep 2009
Thanks Given: 52
Thanks Received: 18

Does time have meaning as price is trending or turning? I ask this because I typically use tick charts for the ES and avoid minute charts. The rise and fall of price makes much more sense to me, they are a less erratic with a burst of volume, and charts are more sensible. You will see a series of candles that are building, you will not see one huge long candle comprising the same one minute or five munute price change event. But it seems like NOT having time incorporated in some way will discard a valuable piece of evidence.

I do not want to confine this idea to only Tick, there are others with a lot of merit, but I do not have my head fully wrapped around them yet.

Started this thread Reply With Quote

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
NexusFi Journal Challenge - April 2024
Feedback and Announcements
ZombieSqueeze
Platforms and Indicators
Request for MACD with option to use different MAs for fa …
NinjaTrader
My NT8 Volume Profile Split by Asian/Euro/Open
NinjaTrader
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Retail Trading As An Industry
67 thanks
Battlestations: Show us your trading desks!
48 thanks
NexusFi site changelog and issues/problem reporting
47 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
32 thanks
What percentage per day is possible? [Poll]
31 thanks

  #3 (permalink)
 
ThatManFromTexas's Avatar
 ThatManFromTexas 
Houston,Tx
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Trading: TF
Posts: 2,265 since Feb 2010
Thanks Given: 1,206
Thanks Received: 4,348



JohnPS View Post
Does time have meaning as price is trending or turning? I ask this because I typically use tick charts for the ES and avoid minute charts. The rise and fall of price makes much more sense to me, they are a less erratic with a burst of volume, and charts are more sensible. You will see a series of candles that are building, you will not see one huge long candle comprising the same one minute or five munute price change event. But it seems like NOT having time incorporated in some way will discard a valuable piece of evidence.

I do not want to confine this idea to only Tick, there are others with a lot of merit, but I do not have my head fully wrapped around them yet.


That would include Range bars?

I trade on range bars because I do not like dealing with the sudden long bar. CL can go a LONG way in 5 minutes.

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)
 JohnPS 
Dewitt Mi
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Amp/CQG and Infinity
Trading: Futures
Posts: 52 since Sep 2009
Thanks Given: 52
Thanks Received: 18

Range bars - Yes. An other example of a non-time based price movement.

Would there be more value in this data it time were added back in somehow?

Started this thread Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)
 
Lornz's Avatar
 Lornz 
Oslo, Norway
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: CQG, Excel
Trading: CL
Posts: 1,193 since Apr 2010

Time does not move markets (although time passes as markets move). Mass and velocity is what's important, I have found time to be irrelevant in intraday trading. I use daily charts (or higher) for long term trends and interday trading though.

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)
 
TheSeeker's Avatar
 TheSeeker 
Germany
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MT4, StrategyRunner
Trading: ES,EUR/USD,Oil
Posts: 127 since Dec 2010
Thanks Given: 81
Thanks Received: 73


JohnPS View Post
Range bars - Yes. An other example of a non-time based price movement.

Would there be more value in this data it time were added back in somehow?

Yes. Sharp, i.e. quick price moves, especially against the trend, are often corrected...I try to fade them. I like both range and time bars and am thinking of having both chart types of one symbol on my screen.

Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)
 futuretrader 
Como Italy
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader, customized
Trading: ES
Posts: 525 since Feb 2010
Thanks Given: 471
Thanks Received: 643


JohnPS View Post

Would there be more value in this data it time were added back in somehow?

Probably depends on the type of trading you do. There's an Inverted Time Histogram indicator on the NT forums; you could try adding that to your chart and seeing for yourself how it works. In my experience using it with CV Bars pretty much duplicates displaying a volume histogram beneath time-based bars.

Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)
 JohnPS 
Dewitt Mi
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Amp/CQG and Infinity
Trading: Futures
Posts: 52 since Sep 2009
Thanks Given: 52
Thanks Received: 18


futuretrader View Post
Probably depends on the type of trading you do. There's an Inverted Time Histogram indicator on the NT forums; you could try adding that to your chart and seeing for yourself how it works. In my experience using it with CV Bars pretty much duplicates displaying a volume histogram beneath time-based bars.

Type of trading?
Intraday, scalping mostly, holding a trade for 1 minute to 60 minutes.

Inverted Time Histogram - and the rest?
FutureTrader, I looked and came up empty handed on this, could you possibly post this? I will set up a chart as you have described.

The goal is to un-mask the intention of the Market, non-time based charts can show price movement as it occurs where time based charts mask this somewhat if the interval is large enough to contain the price move.

Started this thread Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)
 JohnPS 
Dewitt Mi
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Amp/CQG and Infinity
Trading: Futures
Posts: 52 since Sep 2009
Thanks Given: 52
Thanks Received: 18


TheSeeker View Post
Yes. Sharp, i.e. quick price moves, especially against the trend, are often corrected...I try to fade them. I like both range and time bars and am thinking of having both chart types of one symbol on my screen.

OK I tried this idea and it is interesting, not sure this is what you had imagined. In the lower portion I have the ES twice on one chart, one as 4 range and one as 120 sec. The vol histogram on the bottom is tied to the 120 sec chart, the upper portion I have the ES 4 Range again, but because it is by itself the candles are evenly distributed across the chart. I have time markers showing the disparities. The upper 4 Range chart describes trends with less noise.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ScreenShot215.jpg
Views:	270
Size:	204.0 KB
ID:	36817  
Started this thread Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 trendisyourfriend 
Quebec Canada
Market Wizard
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
Frequency: Daily
Duration: Minutes
Posts: 4,526 since Oct 2009
Thanks Given: 4,167
Thanks Received: 6,018



JohnPS View Post
Does time have meaning as price is trending or turning? I ask this because I typically use tick charts for the ES and avoid minute charts...

Your perception and trading will take a new dimension when you take into account three things: price, volume and time and the overall concept of value which act as the binding force for all these three elements. In my opinion, you should not underestimate the importantce of value in trading. Value is the core concept behind any trade. It is the motivating force behind all transactions. Many traders have no idea where past and present developing value is or when responsive or initiating activity is more likely to kick in. So a good question at this stage would be how do we identify or determine value in the market ? This way you would evacuate such question as to know whether or not a tick, range or time chart is the way to go to see where value is.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to trendisyourfriend for this post:





Last Updated on April 25, 2011


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts