NTSvePivots Indicator - R3/S3 calculations wrong?

May 13th, 2023, 09:54 AM

Hi All, just a sanity check please. This very nice indicator was written by Trader_Jim and given it has been out for some time I assumed all is well. I just did a retrospective on a big trade that did not go as planned and included some manual checks on this indicator and found that R2-R1-PP-S1-S2 all work fine but that R3 & S3 values in the indicator have the wrong values???

According to Sylvian sites it should be:

S3 = PP * 2 - ( PH * 2 - PL ) ;
R3 = PP * 2 + ( PH - PL * 2 ) ;

However the C# code has implemented in NTSvePivots (no version available):

s3 = pp - 2 * (currentHigh - currentLow);
r3 = pp + 2 * (currentHigh - currentLow);

If someone is using this indicator - can you please check and confirm my finding (and that I am not going nuts?).

Thanks, Lex

May 13th, 2023, 02:31 PM

grzltn

I just did a retrospective on a big trade that did not go as planned and included some manual checks on this indicator and found that R2-R1-PP-S1-S2 all work fine but that R3 & S3 values in the indicator have the wrong values???

Greetings.

I am not surprised by the results you saw from that indicator.

I recommend a little different approach.

Personally to me starting with an indicator and fitting it / configuring it to an instrument feels like putting the cart before the horse.

If I were to be trading an instruments most repetitive rotations I would start by data mining that specific instrument's rotation history rather than using any pre-canned default values for R1-R2 etc.

Again, just personally, I do not ever start by assuming a specific indicator is a good fit for the signaling I seek, but spend time on indicators and designing systems as the last 15-20% of my time investment on an instrument I consider trading.

I start with learning that personality and habits of an instrument in depth ... really in depth ... nope, even more in depth than that and only afterwards chose or design signals specific to events I was to track specific to that instrument.

Good Luck. Enjoy the journey!

Hedge

Might enjoy this thread.

Indicators, a waste of time?

Hey everyone, so recently I've been trading with only the DOM and supply and demand zones, and let me tell you my trading has improved ten fold. maybe it just me but whenever I would run an RSI or any moving averages I feel that it clouds my judgement …

May 13th, 2023, 03:45 PM

found two examples of the formulas for NTSve Pivots .. one on Think or Swim and the other on traders dot com ..

seems like these two sites have the same formulas for NTSVe Pivots ..
PP = (LastHigh + LastLow + PrClose) / 3;
R1 = (2*PP) - LastLow;
S1 = (2*PP) - LastHigh;
R2 = PP + (LastHigh - LastLow);
S2 = PP - (LastHigh - LastLow);
R3 = (2*PP) + (LastHigh - (2*LastLow));
S3 = (2*PP) - ((2* LastHigh) - LastLow);
PL = LastLow;

R1M = (R1-PP)/2 + PP;
S1M = (PP-S1)/2 + S1;
R2M = (R2-R1)/2 + R1;
S2M = (S1-S2)/2 + S2;
R3M = (R3-R2)/2 + R2;
S3M = (S2-S3)/2 + S3;
PH = LastHigh;

and you are right .. the NTSVe Pivot indicator I found has a different formula

if you have access to the NT8 editor .. you can go to line 238 and replace line 238 - 244 with this code .. if not, send me a DM and I will send you an indicator with this update

pp = (currentHigh + currentLow + currentClose) / 3;
s1 = 2 * pp - currentHigh;
r1 = 2 * pp - currentLow;
s2 = pp - (currentHigh - currentLow);
r2 = pp + (currentHigh - currentLow);
s3 = (2*pp) - ((2* currentHigh) - currentLow);
r3 = (2*pp) + (currentHigh - (2*currentLow));

that should get you consistent with the original formula for SVe Pivots

or just go with @FatTails pivot indicator .. which can be found here ..

Download: Session Pivots Daily (amaPivotsDaily)

Version 2.6 July 4, 2018 The Session Pivots Daily is an enhanced pivots indicator which allows for displaying floor pivots, wide pivots, Jackson Zones and Fibonacci pivots. All pivots are calculated from daily bars (default setting) or from the …

Fat Tails

I agree with @hedgeplay .. you can curve fit an indicator all day .. just to start the process again tomorrow .. you need to know the persona of the underlying asset and you gotta be able to read the current price action ..

May 13th, 2023, 08:46 PM

hedgeplay

Greetings.

I am not surprised by the results you saw from that indicator.

I recommend a little different approach.

Personally to me starting with an indicator and fitting it / configuring it to an instrument feels like putting the cart before the horse.

If I were to be trading an instruments most repetitive rotations I would start by data mining that specific instrument's rotation history rather than using any pre-canned default values for R1-R2 etc.

Again, just personally, I do not ever start by assuming a specific indicator is a good fit for the signaling I seek, but spend time on indicators and designing systems as the last 15-20% of my time investment on an instrument I consider trading.

I start with learning that personality and habits of an instrument in depth ... really in depth ... nope, even more in depth than that and only afterwards chose or design signals specific to events I was to track specific to that instrument.

Good Luck. Enjoy the journey!

Hedge

Might enjoy this thread.

Indicators, a waste of time?

Hey everyone, so recently I've been trading with only the DOM and supply and demand zones, and let me tell you my trading has improved ten fold. maybe it just me but whenever I would run an RSI or any moving averages I feel that it clouds my judgement …

Thanks Hedge,

I am not disagreeing and my trading style does not use traditional indicators other than my own. Having said this, one of the exceptions is my use of the Sylvian Vervoort pivots on the oil market as it seems to have become a self-fulfilling prophesy. I just about could trade oil just using those pivots mixed with form reading for confirmation (but I don't and have more tricks in the bag).

Warmest,

Lex

May 13th, 2023, 09:23 PM

grzltn

Thanks Hedge,

I am not disagreeing and my trading style does not use traditional indicators other than my own. Having said this, one of the exceptions is my use of the Sylvian Vervoort pivots on the oil market as it seems to have become a self-fulfilling prophesy. I just about could trade oil just using those pivots mixed with form reading for confirmation (but I don't and have more tricks in the bag).

Warmest,

Lex

Very good. Keep rolling.

May 24th, 2023, 02:48 AM

mewddsltd

found two examples of the formulas for NTSve Pivots .. one on Think or Swim and the other on traders dot com ..

seems like these two sites have the same formulas for NTSVe Pivots ..
PP = (LastHigh + LastLow + PrClose) / 3;
R1 = (2*PP) - LastLow;
S1 = (2*PP) - LastHigh;
R2 = PP + (LastHigh - LastLow);
S2 = PP - (LastHigh - LastLow);
R3 = (2*PP) + (LastHigh - (2*LastLow));
S3 = (2*PP) - ((2* LastHigh) - LastLow);
PL = LastLow;

...<snip>

Just confirming the above code change is correct and works fine.

Thanks @mewddsltd !

May 24th, 2023, 10:38 AM

@grzltn

glad it works ..

NTSvePivots Indicator - R3/S3 calculations wrong?

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NTSvePivots Indicator - R3/S3 calculations wrong?