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Double Sell Order Placed.


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Double Sell Order Placed.

  #1 (permalink)
cirque73
Elizabeth NJ/USA
 
Posts: 4 since Mar 2021
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Hello,

Has this happened to anybody and who is at fault?

My strategy only goes long.

It executed a BUY. And it executed a SELL. Then another SELL was executed without a BUY. As I said the strategy only goes long.

It resulted in a $2500 loss.

I contacted support. Being this is a Saturday, I won't have a reply till Monday. But if it's happened to you, or you read about it happening. What was the outcome?



Thanks.
Mike

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  #2 (permalink)
 
xplorer's Avatar
 xplorer 
London UK
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cirque73 View Post
Has this happened to anybody and who is at fault?


Hi Mike,

Who wrote the code in the strategy?

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  #3 (permalink)
cirque73
Elizabeth NJ/USA
 
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xplorer View Post
Hi Mike,

Who wrote the code in the strategy?

Ninja Trader Strategy Builder. Order management was clearly enter long ; exit long.

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  #4 (permalink)
 
xplorer's Avatar
 xplorer 
London UK
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cirque73 View Post
Ninja Trader Strategy Builder. Order management was clearly enter long ; exit long.

Okay, but who actually clicked the buttons that created that strategy? I take it to be you?


This is an important point because, before even thinking that a machine could be wrong, 99.99% of the time it's the logic that was wrong.


By that I mean, have you gone back and made 100% sure that whatever you think your strategy should be doing has actually been translated correctly into what the strategy does?


Of course I don't know you and I don't know your level of NT coding expertise, but I know that the above is very frequently one major cause of upset and, as I said before, 99.99% of the time it turns out that what I wanted my platform to do was not what I actually translated into machine code (whether via a wizard such as NT Strategy Builder or via programming language).

In other words, it takes considerable skill to code strategies. Even via builders.

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  #5 (permalink)
cirque73
Elizabeth NJ/USA
 
Posts: 4 since Mar 2021
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xplorer View Post
Okay, but who actually clicked the buttons that created that strategy? I take it to be you?


This is an important point because, before even thinking that a machine could be wrong, 99.99% of the time it's the logic that was wrong.


By that I mean, have you gone back and made 100% sure that whatever you think your strategy should be doing has actually been translated correctly into what the strategy does?


Of course I don't know you and I don't know your level of NT coding expertise, but I know that the above is very frequently one major cause of upset and, as I said before, 99.99% of the time it turns out that what I wanted my platform to do was not what I actually translated into machine code (whether via a wizard such as NT Strategy Builder or via programming language).

In other words, it takes considerable skill to code strategies. Even via builders.

Hello xplorer,

Nope, nothing to do with coding expertise. The routing system is slow. Orders are routed from the strategy (not directly connected to Ninja Trader Brokerage), to Ninja Trader, to Phillips Capital. The strategy thought it was still long.

Mike.

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  #6 (permalink)
 
xplorer's Avatar
 xplorer 
London UK
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cirque73 View Post
Hello xplorer,

Nope, nothing to do with coding expertise. The routing system is slow. Orders are routed from the strategy (not directly connected to Ninja Trader Brokerage), to Ninja Trader, to Phillips Capital. The strategy thought it was still long.

Mike.

I see, so what you are saying is, this was not an algo executing unintended actions, this was a routing problem?

Did you get it confirmed by someone at Tech Support and, if so, what did they say was going to happen next?

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  #7 (permalink)
 hedgeplay 
Austin Texas / US
 
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cirque73 View Post
Hello xplorer,

Nope, nothing to do with coding expertise. The routing system is slow. Orders are routed from the strategy (not directly connected to Ninja Trader Brokerage), to Ninja Trader, to Phillips Capital. The strategy thought it was still long.

....

Has this happened to anybody and who is at fault?

But if it's happened to you, or you read about it happening. What was the outcome?


I can't count how many times I have been a little surprised by exact timing and results of execution initiations.

Upon investigation I might that NT8 and all other parties involved executed their portions of the transaction process exactly as they had planned.

Overall what I learned is that for some parts of the delay "it just is what it is" and no improvements are to be had. For other parts of the transaction process flow I could make some impacts.


What I learned is that to build reliability into my Algo design and operational process I should:

Option A) The fast first simple approach: Add into my design constraint expectations a 1-2 second delay and on average 2-4 ticks of slippage on each side of each transaction.

Option B) Map the end-2end transaction process flow, identify which of the slowest elements of the process flow I can impact and then make changes on my side to improve speed and reliability.

Key process flow elements include Exchange Data Lag, distance from the exchange/Internet lag, hardware executing the Algo, Algo design complexity and the number of built in delays, post submit broker side risk management checking and order execution time, etc..

HedgePlay

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  #8 (permalink)
cirque73
Elizabeth NJ/USA
 
Posts: 4 since Mar 2021
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xplorer View Post
I see, so what you are saying is, this was not an algo executing unintended actions, this was a routing problem?

Did you get it confirmed by someone at Tech Support and, if so, what did they say was going to happen next?

I got confirmation from the head script writer. And he said NT is not responsible. It says so in the contract I signed. That's cool. But I won't be paying for that lifetime subscription, bought five days ago, on my credit card.

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  #9 (permalink)
aspiringmiliner
Swattle, WA
 
Posts: 6 since Dec 2021
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That's just wrong. They shouldn't even allow you to sell something you don't own and implicitly treat it as a short order IMHO.

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