NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





The Costanza effect


Discussion in Traders Hideout

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one Ghostland with 2 posts (1 thanks)
    2. looks_two Quick Summary with 1 posts (0 thanks)
    3. looks_3 Big Mike with 1 posts (0 thanks)
    4. looks_4 vegasfoster with 1 posts (0 thanks)
    1. trending_up 4,200 views
    2. thumb_up 2 thanks given
    3. group 1 followers
    1. forum 5 posts
    2. attach_file 2 attachments




 
Search this Thread

The Costanza effect

  #1 (permalink)
 Ghostland 
Central, Illinois
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Posts: 24 since Apr 2010
Thanks Given: 2
Thanks Received: 21

Nearly all strategies I've back tested in NT return negative results. Often the direction predicted ends up being correct, but I'm either stopped out or the exit is triggered before I make any money. Also, the percent profitable is low even when the strategy turns a profit, resulting in BIG draw downs.

I was thinking about this the other day while watching a Seinfeld rerun. George was complaining about his life as usual and Jerry said: "If every instinct you have is wrong, then the opposite would have to be right." Not only that, but I had just finished reading the "Turtle Soup Strategy", which counts on the Donchian channel breakout to usually be the opposite of what the Turtle Strategy predicts.

I edited my strategies in NT: where I initially went long I went short, where I exited long, I exited short, etc. ALL of the strategies, each and every one, went from losers to winners. The attachments (sorry for the poor quality) are of a Twiggs Money Flow zero line cross strategy. Before "Costanzanization" the best profitable percent was just under 40%; after, the worst was nearly 61% (data is EOD).

The attachments back tested to 2002 if I remember correctly. I checked other time periods and the Costanzized strategy outperforms the original. I checked most of the other strategies I created with similar results.

Weird. Like the SMA crossover: Go Long when 10 dma crosses below the 20 with price below the 200 outperforms by a wide margin the 10 dma crossing above the 20 and price above the 200.

I'm very interested in hearing everyone's opinion on this.

Not wanting to get all tin foil hat on this, but one theory I have is that, for most simple strategies, everyone is doing the same thing. Knowing this, professional traders set traps for folks like me.

What do you think?

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	twiggs before.png
Views:	143
Size:	202.4 KB
ID:	18619   Click image for larger version

Name:	twiggs after.png
Views:	135
Size:	168.1 KB
ID:	18620  
Started this thread Reply With Quote
Thanked by:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
NT7 Indicator Script Troubleshooting - Camarilla Pivots
NinjaTrader
How to apply profiles
Traders Hideout
Exit Strategy
NinjaTrader
MC PL editor upgrade
MultiCharts
Increase in trading performance by 75%
The Elite Circle
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Just another trading journal: PA, Wyckoff & Trends
31 thanks
Spoo-nalysis ES e-mini futures S&P 500
28 thanks
Tao te Trade: way of the WLD
24 thanks
Bigger Wins or Fewer Losses?
20 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
17 thanks
  #3 (permalink)
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 Big Mike 
Manta, Ecuador
Site Administrator
Developer
Swing Trader
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Broker: IBKR
Trading: Stocks & Futures
Frequency: Every few days
Duration: Weeks
Posts: 50,442 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 33,215
Thanks Received: 101,602


A strategy with no edge will not produce consistent profitable results, no matter if you do the opposite or not, just keep this in mind.

That said, there are some logical reasons to do the opposite of what comes naturally.

Mike

We're here to help: just ask the community or contact our Help Desk

Quick Links: Change your Username or Register as a Vendor
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list
Lifetime Elite Membership: Sign-up for only $149 USD
Exclusive money saving offers from our Site Sponsors: Browse Offers
Report problems with the site: Using the NexusFi changelog thread
Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)
 vegasfoster 
las vegas
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Velocity/IB
Trading: 6E
Posts: 1,145 since Feb 2010
Thanks Given: 304
Thanks Received: 844


Ghostland View Post

Weird. Like the SMA crossover: Go Long when 10 dma crosses below the 20 with price below the 200 outperforms by a wide margin the 10 dma crossing above the 20 and price above the 200.

The reason is if you buy when the 10 dma crosses below the 20 and sell at the opposite, it means that over time you are buying low and selling high, make sense? It works the same for combination indicator systems, e.g. buying when the rsi is below 30, the stochastics is below 20, and the MACD is below the signal and 0 line, will work better over time than selling. But there is no edge to these types of systems after you factor slippage, commissions, and lack of consistency (see draw down figures).

If you want to build a mechanical or automated system, focus on real time price action, e.g. price in relation to moving averages, pivots, highs, lows, etc., and filtering based upon times of the day, current market sentiment, significant news events, etc. Just understand, even if they are profitable over time, most mechanical and automated systems will still have periods of significant drawdowns.

Also, make sure that you are testing your systems correctly. Here is a link to a video that explains it pretty well. You have to register for a free account, but if you are just starting out, I highly recommend you watch it before you spend a lot of time on this.
The Truth About [AUTOLINK]Drawdowns[/AUTOLINK] - Trader Kingdom

Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)
 fluxsmith 
Santa Maria
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, ThinkOrSwim
Broker: Mirus/Zen-Fire
Trading: ES
Posts: 290 since May 2010
Thanks Given: 97
Thanks Received: 322

I always try this with a failed strategy, but every time I recall it's also failed in reverse. When that happens I conclude the entry criteria is no better than random and the money management can't overcome the slippage of having no 'edge'.

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #6 (permalink)
 Ghostland 
Central, Illinois
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Posts: 24 since Apr 2010
Thanks Given: 2
Thanks Received: 21

Thanks everyone.

Started this thread Reply With Quote




Last Updated on August 16, 2010


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts