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X-Trader Trading Platform
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X-Trader Trading Platform

  #171 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bala, PA, USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Mirus, IB
Favorite Futures: SPY, Oil, Euro
 
monpere's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,858 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 300 given, 3,276 received

How does X-Trader handle user input? I can get Ninja to hang at will by clicking the buy button 20 times as fast as I can.

I recently saw a webinar about trading for rebates, and I think the guy was using X-Trader. These traders have ultra low commissions, and this is how they enter the market to add volume and liquidity, as the price goes against them, in order to build their position size, at the same time reducing the average price for the position. He would click the 'Buy Bid' button 10+ times very quickly with 100 shares in order to add 1000 shares to a losing position, keeping his average price close to the current market, and as soon as the market move 1 or 2 ticks in his favor, he would get out at break even, to just collect the rebates on the trade from the exchanges.

This kind of entry hangs Ninja for many seconds, sometimes minutes while it seemingly internally queues and executes orders at it's own pace, or something. Meanwhile the chart, and chart trader is totally unresponsive from any further user input. Then by the time NT catches up, the market is 20 points away from where you clicked the button, and you are now getting fills at that price. How does X-Trade handle this?


Last edited by monpere; February 11th, 2011 at 10:30 AM.
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  #172 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
NY
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
 
Posts: 89 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 53 given, 20 received


monpere View Post
How does X-Trader handle user input? I can get Ninja to hang at will by clicking the buy button 20 times as fast as I can.

I recently saw a webinar about trading for rebates, and I think the guy was using X-Trader. These traders have ultra low commissions, and this is how they enter the market to add volume and liquidity, as the price goes against them, in order to build their position size, at the same time reducing the average price for the position. He would click the 'Buy Bid' button 10+ times very quickly with 100 shares in order to add 1000 shares to a losing position, keeping his average price close to the current market, and as soon as the market move 1 or 2 ticks in his favor, he would get out at break even, to just collect the rebates on the trade from the exchanges.

This kind of entry hangs Ninja for many seconds, sometimes minutes while it seemingly internally queues and executes orders at it's own pace, or something. Meanwhile the chart, and chart trader is totally unresponsive from any further user input. Then by the time NT catches up, the market is 20 points away from where you clicked the button, and you are now getting fills at that price. How does X-Trade handle this?


Single-click trading without complication has always been a plus for X_Trader; in Ninja they had to use that 'interface' in order to not infringe TT patents. On MD Trader you can have your standard lot at 1 / 5 .. 100 and click continuously a single price level until you've got your quantity or elsewhere in order to manage quickly your average price- What you describe is the standard on TT but I'm not so sure they actually support stocks trading. You may check at http://www.tradingtechnologies.com/productdb/ .

 
  #173 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bala, PA, USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Mirus, IB
Favorite Futures: SPY, Oil, Euro
 
monpere's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,858 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 300 given, 3,276 received



paulg View Post
Single-click trading without complication has always been a plus for X_Trader; in Ninja they had to use that 'interface' in order to not infringe TT patents. On MD Trader you can have your standard lot at 1 / 5 .. 100 and click continuously a single price level until you've got your quantity or elsewhere in order to manage quickly your average price- What you describe is the standard on TT but I'm not so sure they actually support stocks trading. You may check at TT-Supported Product Database .

The answer from NT support is that the product was not designed to do that while using ATM's, but should be ok to do if you are not using ATM's

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  #174 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
NY
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
 
Posts: 89 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 53 given, 20 received


monpere View Post
The answer from NT support is that the product was not designed to do that while using ATM's, but should be ok to do if you are not using ATM's

This is not correct: tell them that the user cannot add even a single lot with another click at the same price level without using that dropdown menu: you can't click-click simply in rapid succession.
At least this is what I've checked last time when I've decided not to use NT for order management.

 
  #175 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bala, PA, USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Mirus, IB
Favorite Futures: SPY, Oil, Euro
 
monpere's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,858 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 300 given, 3,276 received


paulg View Post
This is not correct: tell them that the user cannot add even a single lot with another click at the same price level without using that dropdown menu: you can't click-click simply in rapid succession.
At least this is what I've checked last time when I've decided not to use NT for order management.

Yes, I do believe that you are correct for the DOM. But this issue, and their answer was specifically for the chart trader.

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  #176 (permalink)
Elite Member
Los Angeles, CA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Xtrader, NT & MarketDelta
Favorite Futures: ES, Estox, Bunds & 10 Y US + 6J & 6E
 
mattguin's Avatar
 
Posts: 129 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 659 given, 236 received

X-superior execution

Great thread. I've been trading futures as market maker/trader since 1986. IMHO when volumes and volatility kicks in no other platforms (apart from perhaps Stellar) will come near matching Xtraders reliability on execution.

Cheers
Peter

 
  #177 (permalink)
Elite Member
London
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: LMAX
Favorite Futures: GBP/USD EUR/USD
 
kashbg's Avatar
 
Posts: 46 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 33 given, 21 received


mattguin View Post
Great thread. I've been trading futures as market maker/trader since 1986. IMHO when volumes and volatility kicks in no other platforms (apart from perhaps Stellar) will come near matching Xtraders reliability on execution.

Cheers
Peter

Hi "mattguin" I see you are trading FX, could you share with us your execution and charting software. I am currently with Dukascopy and not able to access any similar to X-trader or NT DOMs, so I use their proprietary platform JForex which is very clumsy if you are an active trader/ scalper and for charting I have Esignal. Thanks.

"The only thing to do when a man is wrong is to be right by ceasing to be wrong." - Edwin Lefevre -
The following user says Thank You to kashbg for this post:
 
  #178 (permalink)
Elite Member
Los Angeles, CA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Xtrader, NT & MarketDelta
Favorite Futures: ES, Estox, Bunds & 10 Y US + 6J & 6E
 
mattguin's Avatar
 
Posts: 129 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 659 given, 236 received

For spot fx that aren't that many reliable platforms for individual accounts that I know which is one of the reasons I switched to trading fx futures. Best platforms for execution imo; Xtrader, stellar and cgq not too bad. If you want ability to use charting, scripts and execution Ninjatrader ok choice. I use esignal as well for charting and find it very reliable.

For spot fx perhaps best choice is mt4 if anyone else has ideas on this would love to hear.

Cheers

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  #179 (permalink)
Elite Member
Frankfurt, Germany
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TT
Broker/Data: Advantage Futures
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
Malvolio's Avatar
 
Posts: 141 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 93 given, 82 received


mattguin View Post

For spot fx perhaps best choice is mt4 if anyone else has ideas on this would love to hear.

Cheers

I would not use MT4 oder MT5 since the brokers (Market Makers) can easily change your execution price:
http://noponzi.com/wp-content/uploads/metaquotesvirtualdealer1.jpg
http://noponzi.com/wp-content/uploads/metaquotesvirtualdealer2.jpg

Best regards,

Malvolio

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  #180 (permalink)
Elite Member
London
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: LMAX
Favorite Futures: GBP/USD EUR/USD
 
kashbg's Avatar
 
Posts: 46 since Feb 2011
Thanks: 33 given, 21 received


Very helpful posts. I am so glad I found this thread. It seems the best tool for trading execution is X-Trader, give or take a few personal preferences. It is a shame it is not available for Spot-FX. I would like to see similar DOMs in the Spot-FX. I have absolutely no knowledge of Stellar, their web site is not very helpful with snapshots etc. I would appreciate if anyone say a bit more about them.

"The only thing to do when a man is wrong is to be right by ceasing to be wrong." - Edwin Lefevre -

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