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Trading Technologies Cloud-based 'TT' platform (2019)
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Trading Technologies Cloud-based 'TT' platform (2019)

  #11 (permalink)
Chicago
 
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snax's Avatar
 
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canoekoh View Post
so i've used the TT platform for a few months now for testing

1) charting is horrible. only recently did they implement cont contracts but they don't even have volume-based rollover. oh and no second-charts if that's a thing you need. if you wanna load 365 days worth of data for a 4-hr chart, expect to wait a while for it load every single new session. in SC or NT, you get to save data on your computer for fast loading later. not the case here.

2) charting UI and fluidity is one of the worst i've seen; as you increase the window size of the chart window, moving around the chart lags increasingly; there's no way to click-drag-release and scroll horizontally the chart without also moving vertically, which is a standard feature in every platform; in order to reset the axis, you have to right-click and click auto, instead of doing it intuitively like any other platform where you can just double click; so many more examples i could name...but really the worst is the lag. it's funny b/c as you make the chart window smaller and smaller, you can visibly see the lag go away lol

being a cloud-based platform should not be an excuse for this since Tradingview has a fast/fluid charting UI

3) execution speed is great. right up there with the best

4) if you require a sophisticated dom to look at recent bid/ask volume, staking/pulling, cumulative bid/ask volume, forget the TT dom. use jigsaw or sierrachart's dom. this was the most surprising to me b/c TT has always been famous for their dom but you quickly realize its functionality is a decade behind that of jigsaw or sierrachart's.

5) per-contract fee is one of the most expensive in the business unless you trade size

final thoughts: really, the biggest advantage of TT is its execution speed and if you trade spreads/options or have a need for Autotrader or ADL. but for the aforementioned functionalities, it's not even $50/month. it's $400/month.

in conclusions, TT is good at some very specific things - functionalities i feel 90%+ of the retail space won't be using like ADL.

the things that the retail space does use a lot: advanced DOM, fluid and intuitive charting UI, continuous contracts, volume-based indicators and analysis, etc. - TT doesn't do well at all. in fact, it's actually pretty terrible if i'm being really honest compared to the "amateur retail" platforms like NT, SC, MC.

it's more of a niche product that fills some very specific needs that a small subset traders would know they would need, but sucks when it comes to basic functionality that we've come to expect from other retail platforms we've used.

Thanks for sharing your experiences @canoekoh! I hear you about the jigsaw dom, i'm sad that there isn't a mac version...if it had a plugin for investor-r/t I would really like to try those two products together.

Cheers!

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  #12 (permalink)
NY
 
 
Posts: 90 since Sep 2009
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"Linking to and from Excel" : when for TT chart indicators?


SMCJB View Post

I also heavily use Excel RTD links, so need a desktop version for that reason. (I believe there is a desktop version).

Hi SMCJB,

Did you try to push this feature not only for instrument-related data (such as prices, volume, etc) but also for indicators on chart widgets?

Apparently they do not care at all providing the equivalent of "Linking to and from Excel"

https://www.tradingtechnologies.com/xtrader-help/x-study/linking-and-exporting-chart-data/linking-to-and-from-excel/


Last edited by paulg; July 7th, 2019 at 02:10 PM.
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  #13 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Houston, TX
 
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Platform: XTrader
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[QUOTE=paulg;720598]Hi SMCJB,

Did you try to push this feature not only for instrument-related data (such as prices, volume, etc) but also for indicators on chart widgets?

Apparently they do not care at all providing the equivalent of "Linking to and from Excel"

https://www.tradingtechnologies.com/xtrader-help/x-study/linking-and-exporting-chart-data/linking-to-and-from-excel/[/QUOTE @paulg I'm a little confused. Are you talking about XTrader or the new TT product. (I believe XStudy is part of the old XTrader suite that is months away from being decommissioned) Also are you saying the RTD links do not work as documented in the link? I don't use XStudy but I have been using XTraders Excel RTD links heavily and successfully for probably about 15 years.

On a side note, I expect to be testing the newer TT product this month, so will have more feedback soon.

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  #14 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Houston, TX
 
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Well I guess since TT are no longer a site sponsor their "Ask Me Anything" Thread has been locked (Huh? Whats the logic behind that?) so I suppose this becomes the go to thread as its the newest.

As I mentioned I'm about to start switching from Xtrader Pro, known as possibly the greatest piece of trading software ever, to the new TT product (initially known as a piece of software rushed to market and not up to it's advertised job). I started this week in doing some research on the differences but didn't learn that much - but I think the differences will be negligible. It's obvious that TT reworked some things in a way that probably makes a lot more sense, but there was so little advanced functionality discussed its not possible to fully know yet.

I also just visited the new TT community (think stackoverflow) which replaced their old forums several years ago and must admit I was extremely unimpressed. The XTrader section has 6 month old messages that Patrick R. recently replied to basically saying "Hopefully you switched to the new TT and this is no longer an issue!". The TT platform had several good questions that I checked out, but was very disappointed to find most had no responses. How are you supposed to learn the new platform when questions asking for help aren't responded to by the people in the know. Hopefully this isn't a reflection of their support of the product and that there is a better way to get questions answered.

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  #15 (permalink)
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Posts: 51 since Dec 2013
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Started using the browser based version 3 years ago when some brokers dropped X Trader.It was extremely frustrating to use and make any measurable progress with but because I was mostly interested in learning ADL I put up with the headaches.While using ADL in beta during that time many bugs and performance issues were fixed which then also prompted new features along with some idiot proofing blocks/features.

It has improved considerably but to be honest I only use the browser based version to construct ADL algos since currently ADL is only browser based.Hoping they move it into TT Desktop which is the version I use to trade with.The TT Desktop version is the one any trader should be using.Putting feature parity aside for a moment,it's performance is great.

The Excel link feature works fine in it's current simplest form..as one example..for bringing in data you may want to display on the price ladder into an algo/ADL. Except they have recently removed the ability to have these price ladder laser lines in different colors because it was causing a performance hit. So now all lines are red and many traders relied on different colors for obvious reasons.Maybe it will come back after a few performance enhancements. Still no chart based excel capability.

Charts...I only use the Price Distribution(MP but still no session splits!) charts as I have a separate charting platform for my research/charting etc but yes the charts are very basic but are close to parity with X Trader/X Study.I don't think they will be adding anything like a Footprint chart anytime soon.Again this is using TT Desktop, the performance is good or adequate.

They just released the TT SDK which allows 3rd party execution or charting platforms to connect to the new environment but so far it looks like these platforms are dragging their feet and still using the legacy X Trader TT API. I don't see much interest or movement as of yet and I expect many of them will be inundated with a flood of TT execution/connection complaints from traders who will have to use multiple apps/data feeds and execution software now that everyone will be forced to move over to the new TT.

As far as the new TT forum, I don't know why the questions aren't answered promptly or not at all.There seems to be only one guy handling it when he has time...Damon/TT. Seems to be less activity compared to the old forum for certain.It's disappointing to be honest but you can get answers from support with little to no delay.Longest I've waited was an hour or 2. Customer support is very good and if they cannot resolve an issue with a screen share,you can often have support conversations with high level programmers if it's something difficult to track down while product managers do listen in and offer feedback on the call in a 3 way.

The older forum had posted constructed ADL algos that users were able to download and learn from but that capability was removed for legal reasons.There has been occasional talk about bringing that back, but like anything else before it makes it through the TT eco system into their user base, decisions are weighed against the demand/request of their larger paying client base on a priority basis.They often accommodate traders' requests based on high demand...so it's encouraging but I just don't see much demand.PartLy due to retail traders not understanding the advantages of reactive speed execution with entry and exit algos.

While they are behind on the announced projected release dates on many of the needed and new updated features (algo triggers algo,more excel control,charting feature parity and ADL analytical block) I'm sure the pace will pick up in the new year as I suspect they are currently focused on stability before getting everyone moved over from X Trader by roughly year's end ..so that's a positive!

Dom..yes there are more useful/advance doms like Jigsaw/DayTradr and Sierra's copy...but for obvious reasons most long time TT users still execute on TT while just watching the others for info.

I am not affiliated with TT nor do I receive any favors but after what I've learned over the past few years using TT, I do not execute on any of these retail platforms.Just learning to use the built in TT Order Types/algos included with the TT Standard license is a huge advantage in execution even for a retail trader.Like they say... ignorance is bliss!


Last edited by mpxtreme; July 16th, 2019 at 01:09 AM.
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  #16 (permalink)
NYC, NY
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Qtrader
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Favorite Futures: Mainly CL. Spread researcher currently
 
Posts: 512 since May 2013
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Inquiry about Excel RTD and populating Market Grids

I am using CQG RTD currently and here is a limiting factor. Trying to see if TT will fit my need.

What i can do easily: Setup several combinations of symbols with simple Excel Concatenate commands like lets say Crude Condors of 6 months spreads.. I can have CLES6?1 (which is the 6 month spread of the front month) and drag it to create CLES6?2, CLES6?3 etc and then have a tab to create whatever combination I want

a) With TT RTD: Is this possible?

b) Now that I have created whatever combination I want in Excel, is it possible to have Market Grid dynamically update on a specific rule like lets say Populate on CL Condors which are below a certain value or above a certain value

Reason for this is if I have several Market grids (grid tabs) for different commodities like Crude, Corn, Beans etc.. i want each of those grids populating only with my criteria

Basically a scanner in excel dynamically populating TT to look at charts, DOM, trade, autotrade etc
Also wondering if this could be done in X_trader but not in TT yet

Any thoughts appreciated

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  #17 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
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mpxtreme View Post
Started using the browser based version 3 years ago when some brokers dropped X Trader.It was extremely frustrating to use and make any measurable progress with but because I was mostly interested in learning ADL I put up with the headaches.

Plain and simple an unfinished rushed to market product targeted to a client base that didn't know anything about it, and at the same time alienating their current client base!
mpxtreme View Post
currently ADL is only browser based. Hoping they move it into TT Desktop which is the version I use to trade with.

What? Really? How after 3 years and the impending discontinuation of XTrader Pro can they honestly have not made this part of teh desktop version. TTs client, or at least the client that they built their buesiness on, isn't a web based trade on your phone client. It's prop traders and prop trading firms and they want desktop.

mpxtreme View Post
The Excel link feature works fine in it's current simplest form..as one example..for bringing in data you may want to display on the price ladder into an algo/ADL. Except they have recently removed the ability to have these price ladder laser lines in different colors because it was causing a performance hit. So now all lines are red and many traders relied on different colors for obvious reasons.Maybe it will come back after a few performance enhancements. Still no chart based excel capability.

We obviously use RTD very differently.

mpxtreme View Post
They just released the TT SDK which allows 3rd party execution or charting platforms to connect to the new environment but so far it looks like these platforms are dragging their feet and still using the legacy X Trader TT API.

Did they have a choice? Again I think this is functionality that should have been ready to go years ago, not months before you discontinue your legacy product

mpxtreme View Post
As far as the new TT forum, I don't know why the questions aren't answered promptly or not at all.There seems to be only one guy handling it when he has time...Damon/TT. Seems to be less activity compared to the old forum for certain.It's disappointing to be honest

No Shortage of TT Crypto vidoes on Twitter and Linkedin being posted every day. Change in priorities.

mpxtreme View Post
The older forum had posted constructed ADL algos that users were able to download and learn from but that capability was removed for legal reasons.There has been occasional talk about bringing that back

The old forums for ADL were really good but for every other product there was no activity. The amount of shared code was amazing. (I contributed heavily back then.) I believe the removal of the old forums and move to the new stackoverflow style was more driven by their "reinvention" than anything else. There were 1000s and 1000s of hours of work put into that and they threw it all away. Why would I or anybody else (not trying to market themselves as a coder for hire) ever want to put effort like that in again?

mpxtreme View Post
While they are behind on the announced projected release dates on many of the needed and new updated features (algo triggers algo,more excel control,charting feature parity and ADL analytical block) I'm sure the pace will pick up in the new year as I suspect they are currently focused on stability before getting everyone moved over from X Trader by roughly year's end ..so that's a positive!

Focused on stability of a 3 year old product?

mpxtreme View Post
Dom..yes there are more useful/advance doms like Jigsaw/DayTradr and Sierra's copy...but for obvious reasons most long time TT users still execute on TT while just watching the others for info.

I am not affiliated with TT nor do I receive any favors but after what I've learned over the past few years using TT, I do not execute on any of these retail platforms.Just learning to use the built in TT Order Types/algos included with the TT Standard license is a huge advantage in execution even for a retail trader.Like they say... ignorance is bliss!

Thank You @mpxtreme for your long post and thoughts. I just wish you had brought better news!

.
.
.


jokertrader View Post
I am using CQG RTD currently and here is a limiting factor. Trying to see if TT will fit my need.

What i can do easily: Setup several combinations of symbols with simple Excel Concatenate commands like lets say Crude Condors of 6 months spreads.. I can have CLES6?1 (which is the 6 month spread of the front month) and drag it to create CLES6?2, CLES6?3 etc and then have a tab to create whatever combination I want

a) With TT RTD: Is this possible?

b) Now that I have created whatever combination I want in Excel, is it possible to have Market Grid dynamically update on a specific rule like lets say Populate on CL Condors which are below a certain value or above a certain value

a) The format is different. With concatenation of strings inside formula's though this is easy to do but will take more to initially setup.
b) That's not RTD functionality that's Excel functionality. I use a lot of conditional formatting in excel to alert me to 'things' driven by RTD.

jokertrader View Post
Reason for this is if I have several Market grids (grid tabs) for different commodities like Crude, Corn, Beans etc.. i want each of those grids populating only with my criteria

Basically a scanner in excel dynamically populating TT to look at charts, DOM, trade, autotrade etc
Also wondering if this could be done in X_trader but not in TT yet

Any thoughts appreciated

Easy to do for products on the same exchange as the naming convention is the same, but a spreadsheet designed for NYMEX wouldn't work for ICE as they have different naming conventions in TT.
Just have things like Exchange and Product be variables at the top of the sheet and have the RTD functions reference those same cells then when you change those master cells everything below will change.

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  #18 (permalink)
New York
 
 
Posts: 51 since Dec 2013
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Hi SMCJB

...that was just a simple RTD example ofcourse.
Most of what I need as data points that aren't in TT or cannot be constructed currently in ADL I'll pipe in through RTD from my charting app.

I'm sure(hoping) Excel functional parity will show up soon.They can't leave out the thousands of ADL OTA price ladder prop traders without a solution.

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  #19 (permalink)
Bay Area California
 
Trading Experience: None
Platform: TT T4
Broker/Data: Phillip Capital
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Posts: 753 since Nov 2011
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I’ve used the new TT platform for about a year, so I figured I’d offer my 0.2/rambling thoughts:

Why I chose TT:
I needed a platform that had programmatic access (API), and that the api could be connected to independent of the front end (ie. My software connects to the api via a collocated servers near/at the exchange, but I view the front end on a different/local computer). I needed to be able to route orders to the exchange without any extra geographic hops, so It was important that they had a point of presence inside all the exchanges that I trade (CME, ICE, CFE, EUREX). Most of what I trade are exchange native spreads so it was imperative that the platform implemented SPAN for margin calculations. Lastly, I needed a fee cap/ flat price platform, a good trade for me averages $1/contract, so excessive per contract fees can really put a damper on pnl. Put all this together and TT is literally the only platform that ticked all the boxes (note: xtrader also ticked all these boxes but my clearing firm no longer offered xtrader).

The good:
Being wrapped up in the TT ecosystem is sort of like a warm embrace. They do everything, and they do it pretty well. At least in my case I had a dedicated representative and they were able to put me in touch with whomever I wanted to chat with concerning the api’s or infrastructure services.

TT support is very good and they respond to opened tickets promptly.

The bad/ugly:

Order routing for the CME has gone down 4-5 times since the start of the year, so keep your firmsoft credentials handy.

The platform is basically still in beta testing, they wouldn’t say that, but it is. One of the problems with trying to replace such a ubiquitous frontend as Xtrader is that they didn’t have a full scope of everyone’s use cases for their platform.

TT crypto, It’s annoying that any focus is given to crypto with the platform still not feature complete compared to its predecessor.

Neutral thoughts:
I don’t particularly care that the platform is “cloud” based, but I think they did a poor job in the way they marketed it. Unless you were one of the few people who were entirely self hosted it shouldn’t make much difference.

I had heard a rumor that they were courting a sale. Which if true, explains a lot of their decisions to sunset their old product and bring all their existing clients on to the new platform.


TT still has some warts, but its also the only game in town if you have the same/ or similar requirements as me.

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  #20 (permalink)
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addchild View Post

The platform is basically still in beta testing, they wouldn’t say that, but it is. One of the problems with trying to replace such a ubiquitous frontend as Xtrader is that they didn’t have a full scope of everyone’s use cases for their platform.

Right...they were trying to service a few dozen X Trader iterations/configurations/use cases which was a logistical nightmare.With that mess almost behind them...as mentioned they now appear to be focusing on stability ahead of parity and new feature releases.

..."courting a sale"...now that could be both worrisome and exciting while potentially opening the way for more innovation, depending on who they are assimilated by.

Thanks

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