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I really hate to get into a conversation like this and rarely post anyway, but a friend of mine has been sharing his trade screen with me for a while with various features of the BTTF / Flux software. All I can say is that this is the most uncanningly accurate "BS" I've ever seen as far as predicting WHEN a move will occur. To the minute! The base indicators do not show how FAR price will move, there are some others that give some fairly useful target levels, or you can use whatever method you want. I haven't bought the software as it is a bit expensive for me right now and I wouldn't rely on it totally, but I am definitely considering it as a future addition. Nothing in trading is 100% accurate, but this is definitely not 100% BS.
Each to their own...
Can you help answer these questions from other members on NexusFi?
Ask your friend to show his results on a live account. Not his trade screen...
I'm a system trader, our brain will identify patterns that work more than not. So many times I build a system and I think I just won the lottery, just to realize that is just our powerful brains recognizing patterns, but in the end they don't pay off... as people say... the proof is in the pudding...
You are new... my advice to you, be skeptical of everyone selling signals... build your own if you can, because then you can adapt as the market changes... if you can't build your own, take your time to learn to trade discretionary... no expensive signals are necessary, just price action should be enough...
Hi DS, Appreciate your response. I agree with your comments and your advice is sound. However, after watching the charts closely for a few weeks it is obvious this is not "100% BS" - I think that comment was a little harsh.
Does it seem a bit "hocus pocus"? Yes, as do the presentations sometimes. Is it a total trading system? No. Would I consider buying it in the future? Definite "Maybe", but only if I have spare cash.
The vast majority of trading systems sold are complete rubbish, much the same for a large number of trading books by "respected" authorities, trading courses, etc. I've spent enough on them over the last 15 yrs, so I take that as fact. I wouldn't put BTTF in the same category, as the indicators do work with reasonable consistency. But it's more a tool that could be added to your existing analysis.
Oh man this is gold, thanks big mike for detailing that, im in no means looking for any service and just reading random threads while wait for the market to open.
As i was reading this i came across the same conclusions as big mike did, its pretty apparent that the vendor is lying and continues to try to cover his tracks as new stuff comes out and in the end he ends up eating his own words.
He literally makes a statement in response to a post and then someone posts new info and he then tries to cover up alot of his previous post, this continues through out all of that vendors replies.
Just think about it...Read the vendors replies and that should tell you all you need to know, would you want to do business with someone like that?
I sure and the hell wouldn't in fact i wouldn't even want my name around him.
I love these kinds of posts. A member with a total of 6 posts (4 at the time of the OP) comes on and praises an indicator or vendor - that they "saw via a friend". This is generally after a vendor has had negative reviews.
"uncanningly accurate" - yes, if I had an indicator that was "uncanningly accurate" at predicting market turns, I wouldn't use it myself (Micheal doesn't trade live from a real account and has admitted as such), I would set up a website and sell it to the public.
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- Trade what you see. Invest in what you believe -
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I knew it was a waste of time starting this conversation. It doesn't matter if you state facts or not, there is always someone who knows better or has to pick at something. Who gives a rats how many times someone has posted here. I usually read the posts, not reply - for exactly this reason.
Stating facts is one thing. Stating facts with proof other than words is something else altogether - that is what will warrant a conversation.
You think the indicators are "a bit expensive for me right now" - that is exactly the kind of tactic a vendor would use writing about their own product to steer people off of the scent of them being the actual poster.
That kind of says it all in my opinion. You have this amazing indicator right in front of you and you don't have the "spare cash" to buy it? C'mon man. That tells me everything right there.
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- Trade what you see. Invest in what you believe -
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JB, Assuming I'm not posting anything against the rules, I'll tell you the indicators / tools I use: S5Bookmap, GZT SDVolumeZones, Divergences Pro & Relative Volume from Trade-The-Plan, Daily Profile from Ninza, and a whole lot of stuff from Fat Tails - especially his VWAP & Pivots, and of course OFA "footprint" charts. All that stuff works and I don't "need" other indicators (but it doesn't mean I won't look at them). I don't represent any of those suppliers - or if I do, they aren't paying me enough. I also heavily rely on market geometry, including pitchforks, channels and plain old trend lines. Yes, I know you have to be sceptical, but how about you give me a break??
any thing in trading can look good for a little while...moving average cross .. W.D. Gann time studies, fib. time clusters. large players move the markets ... i do not think Goldman Sacs and J P Morgan are making there trades using the Flux, if the Flux could pick uncanningly accurate turning points ...the developer could sell it for tens of millions. ASK him for a 30 day free trail and test it for your self. you will find out he does not give 30 free trails..you have to spend 3000.00 and hope it works. i would not do that with any trading vendor not just the FLUX. in most cases vendors that want thousands up front with no trail are not honest .. if the Flux could pick turn points with 70% accurate ..when it fired the volume coming in would over load the servers at the exchange. if you like it...i sure hope it works out for you ..good luck and good trading
Hi Forgiven, Thank you for a balanced and sensible response. I agree with what you are saying. I'm not promoting any vendor or software, just responding to an earlier comment that something was 100% BS (I thought that statement was flippant and ill-informed) <<--KEY POINT. But we all say things like that sometimes, so no big deal.
If I can work out how to post a couple of images here & it is not against the forum rules, I'll show you my trades from yesterday - from around the London open up to the point I got side-tracked with this conversation. I also point out that I just started a Topstep Combine yesterday too (you can see my account name starting with Jan11 on the Rithmic dashboard). I've passed a couple of Combines before & had a funded account, but screwed it up so am starting again (I mentioned something previously about not having spare cash, which is why I'm using Topstep - who I don't represent either.)
Unfortunately, it is now the 12th so the Rithmic dashboard (used to register Topstep trades) doesn't show all the trades, just the total which includes profit, less commissions for the day. You can see my trades on the 610 tick chart so you can figure it out. I've also posted a Flux chart for the same time period. I did not use this chart as I only just received it by a promotional/review email. The signals were generated ahead of time and look pretty good to me. While BTTF don't give free trials, they do send out the predicted signals for a couple of markets each & every week for Wed & Thur (they send them ahead of time if you register for free). They then run a live review of the signals as they occur. I don't normally watch them, but looking at the CL chart, maybe I should. Anyway, my friend who lets me view his chart via screen share has a whole lot of stuff on his charts, mostly based around a 1 tick Renko and it doesn't look as simple as this. He is in the US and wasn't out of bed when I took my trades so I didn't have his screen share either.
The attached Flux chart is just one of many ways the signals can be presented. It looks ridiculously simple here, but the actual extent of the moves don't always work this well, even if the timing is good. You definitely need other analysis for that. Sometimes the signals only last for 1 bar, sometimes the moves actually go in the opposite direction to that predicted. You can't just buy the software and become a millionaire (yep, I know they all say that as a lead to "yes you can"...). I took pretty similar trades without the Flux chart, so it's not the only way to do it (that's another reason I'm not rushing out to buy the software).
I have about 10 different charts I'm using to look at one market (CL) - (none of which include a Moving Average). That many charts seems ridiculous too, but I'm not that good of a trader with just price action, so I need some help. They all have their own features & when they line up, the trade is usually good. If all trades went as well as yesterday (and Wednesday after the Crude Stock Report), I'd be loading up the contracts and making a killing. I'm not there yet, hopefully soon.
There are a lot of really good traders posting on this site and I've learned a lot reading their comments. Of course, there are some that are trying to run a scam just like everywhere else. You have to do your research and figure it out, because often you don't know who to trust or what their agenda is (I've read a whole lot of stuff on BTTF including exposures of scam trading site reviewers, but that is another topic - just Google it).
Now I'm not attempting to promote my trading style/methods either. I'm still figuring them out myself. I'm not starting my own thread and won't respond to any questions on what I'm doing (sorry, but I just don't have the time).
My thanks to Big Mike for providing this site. It definitely is the best available.
What I am attempting to post here is:
1 - My 610 tick chart showing my trades for the day (until interrupted) - Man, I wish they were all like this.
2 - My Rithmic dashboard showing the P&L for the day
3 - The Flux chart (received after the event). I could go back & find the deleted email from earlier in the week that would have included these signal times, but I'm not going to because I know the signals will be the same.
4 - A 5000 tick chart showing some market geometry I was using (along with a random SIM trade that I forgot about - I usually use a stop). I originally set this up as a 30000 tick chart but have reduced it to 5000 for clarity.
(Attachments via my Google Drive, so if viewing this weeks or months from now, the files won't be there. Please don't ask me to look for them!)
