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Has anyone ever heard of Felton Trading? (www.feltontrading.com)


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Has anyone ever heard of Felton Trading? (www.feltontrading.com)

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  #1 (permalink)
Norcross, Ga
 
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Has anyone ever hear of Felton Trading?

I was out surfing on several locations and was wondering if anyone had tried this?

https://www.feltontrading.com/

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  #2 (permalink)
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Never heard of him. Go to the "contact us" link and email the representatives and request a copy of a recent month of actual (not hypothetical) trades. If they actually send you a copy, call the brokerage and verify the account exist.

If they don't send a copy of recent real account trades...I'd pass.

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  #3 (permalink)
canada
 
 
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hi felton trading is another few thousand $ system or systems one of the many out there.

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  #4 (permalink)
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He was formerly with Traders International (I think) and then branched out on his own. Met with him in Austin, TX, a couple years ago. Nice enough guy, but for what it costs, you would be better off trying something else. Just my opinion

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  #5 (permalink)
Gainesville, FL
 
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I agree with gfg1... a very pricy system with visual bells and whistles and an auto add-on (additional cost). However it is simply based on stoch/macd divergence.....nothing you can't accomplish for free with the vast resources available to you on forums such as this.

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  #6 (permalink)
sarasota fl
 
 
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If you are new to trading or just had no luck with your last course. Give this a look. They are great teachers and they will get yo trading with a profit.

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  #7 (permalink)
waiblingen Germany
 
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I had a subsciption one year ago, but I was not satisfied!

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  #8 (permalink)
United States of America
 
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Southern fried snake oil.

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  #9 (permalink)
Sydney NSW Australia
 
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I've done so many courses I'm embarrassed but as the doer of so many courses I think Felton's the best. But as with the all of these courses you have to backtest and I suggest eyeballing it with pencil & paper & find out if it works. Try it with differing timeframes & bars, make some practice money then trade with the discipline of an olympic athlete, i.e. own it. If you've got to pick one Felton's good.

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  #10 (permalink)
Bala, PA, USA
 
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I took their trial a few years ago. It is the exact same system as Trader's International. Look for price double top/double bottom, accompanied with MACD divergence, and Stochastics potential divergence. Enter at the close of the bar that turns the diverging MACD in the direction of the trade. Recently they programmed that strategy into some packaged products and say the indicators are proprietery, but the indicators are still just your basic MACD and Stochastics. If you experiment with a few different settings of the MACD and Stochastics, you will get the exact same signals, and you will learn more about these indicators as well.

The only thing you have to watch out for is that MACD divergences are awesome in more sideways action, but will send you to the poor house in a strong impulsing market. As a scalper, I've taken 4, 5, 6 losing MACD divergence entries in a row in a strong impulsing move! That can be demoralizing. I've now replaced the MACD with the RSI, because it gives fewer bad divergence entries.

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  #11 (permalink)
Sydney NSW Australia
 
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I found the same thing as you, the MACD gives too many signals and the RSI gives more accurate ones. Where I got murdered was if the market's in a narrow sideways band which the ES was in two nights consecutively last week. Plenty of divergence signals, no breakouts & plenty of losses. I've decided that if I see narrow horizontal bollingers again (2 points) I'm pulling the sheets over my head. Where I find the system good is in a normal up & down market (say a 4 point range). You're right, in a a strong impulsing market it an get ugly too. I suppose the answer may be to watch it when the bars are hugging one of the bollinger bands.

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  #12 (permalink)
WV
 
 
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I tried an auto-trade service they offered over a year ago. I wasn't mad that it lost money -- I was mad that it didn't follow its own trading plan. The system was supposed to be a scalper, but would only take one trade a day (that's great if its a super high probability trade). Then it would lose on the trade. It would stick around in losing trades far too long. It was losing $2 for every $1 made and winning on just under 50% of the trades.

As a rule now, after this and a few other experiences, I never sign up for a service that requires up-front money. (In this case it was over $1,000 "set-up" fee + a monthly fee. There are plenty of other systems you can lease for hundreds of dollars per month with no nasty up-front fee.

The actual results were so materially different than the webinar presentation that I can agree with a previous poster: "Southern Fried Snake Oil".

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  #13 (permalink)
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DCtrader View Post
...
The actual results were so materially different than the webinar presentation that I can agree with a previous poster: "Southern Fried Snake Oil".

I believe that all the trading education outfits out there are business solely geared to make profits for their owners. These educators are teaching because they can't make a living trading. I did programming work for one of these outfits for 2 years, so I knew the internals of that particular education service.

Why would you want to spend 10 hour days in a trading room, and doing sales, and preparing presentations, doing back end customer related work, etc. etc. for a small education business, if you can spend a few hours a day trading and making a good income? When you ask them, they will say, "I do this because I love teaching", That is pure bull !!!, they do it because it's easier for them to make a living that way then for them to make a living trading.

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  #14 (permalink)
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Mompere

do you still do programming and are you able to write up an indicator for me

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  #15 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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monpere View Post
I...The only thing you have to watch out for is that MACD divergences are awesome in more sideways action, but will send you to the poor house in a strong impulsing market. As a scalper, I've taken 4, 5, 6 losing MACD divergence entries in a row in a strong impulsing move! That can be demoralizing. I've now replaced the MACD with the RSI, because it gives fewer bad divergence entries.

Curious your conclusion regarding the MACD. I have always understood that a broken divergence may be a strong signal that we are in a trending market. The first broken signal should alert you to this possibility.

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  #16 (permalink)
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trendisyourfriend View Post
Curious your conclusion regarding the MACD. I have always understood that a broken divergence may be a strong signal that we are in a trending market. The first broken signal should alert you to this possibility.

I am not a discretionary trader, I am a mechanical trader, I take every signal because I don't know which signal will work, and which will not. I rely on my system's expectancy to get me profitable. I take one and only one setup when ever it appears, and play with a 1:3 risk/reward ratio every time, no matter what the market is doing. I've tried the discretionary approach, but I can't handle it psychologically, I hate when I think a setup should work and it does not, and hate it even more when I skip a setup because I think it should not work, but it does. Although, I am to the point now where, when the market is moving a certain way, I can pretty much tell that the next 2 or 3 trades are probably gonna be losers, but if I make the discretionary decision not to take them, then I render my system's expectancy meaningless.

So, now I don't have to cherry pick, because even with less then 50% win ratio, I am still profitable because I win 3R on every winner and only lose 1R on every loser, and the system gives 15 to 20 trades every day. I don't know why people scalp with 1:1 or even 2:1 or even lesser risk/reward ratios, you pretty much have to be right all the time to make money that way.

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  #17 (permalink)
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Sorry to hear about these negative Felton experiences . Im a student of Rogers but dont trade his method . Using his method requires a lot of subjective decision making even though its sometimes initially sold as "easy" or at least worded in advertising to sound easy , to new would be traders anyway . Divergence is an art and if you ask Roger he will agree with that . After I was in his room for awhile I saw that he does read into price first and play divergences second , he wants a reason to trade .

Havent heard much talk about hidden divergence or some of the trending divergence signals that he uses like lump trades and such . Rogers a member here , maybe we can hit him up and get some insight from him . Hes a knowledable trader but also a vendor in a savage field filled with emotions so its easy to peg him a charlatan , but hes not .

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  #18 (permalink)
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monpere View Post
I believe that all the trading education outfits out there are business solely geared to make profits for their owners. These educators are teaching because they can't make a living trading. I did programming work for one of these outfits for 2 years, so I knew the internals of that particular education service.

Why would you want to spend 10 hour days in a trading room, and doing sales, and preparing presentations, doing back end customer related work, etc. etc. for a small education business, if you can spend a few hours a day trading and making a good income? When you ask them, they will say, "I do this because I love teaching", That is pure bull !!!, they do it because it's easier for them to make a living that way then for them to make a living trading.


I cannot agree with you more. On the other hand there are some free rooms and free education. Education is good enough to keep me going back every day. Educator in the room helped me enough to keep me going. Now after 4 years of trading my last 8 months has been in the green.
So not everyone the same there are some honest people but not a lot.

TickVix/Gregory

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  #19 (permalink)
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monpere View Post
I believe that all the trading education outfits out there are business solely geared to make profits for their owners. These educators are teaching because they can't make a living trading. I did programming work for one of these outfits for 2 years, so I knew the internals of that particular education service.

Why would you want to spend 10 hour days in a trading room, and doing sales, and preparing presentations, doing back end customer related work, etc. etc. for a small education business, if you can spend a few hours a day trading and making a good income? When you ask them, they will say, "I do this because I love teaching", That is pure bull !!!, they do it because it's easier for them to make a living that way then for them to make a living trading.


I have said this so many times in other threads, but no one listens. The problem lies in that no one whats to take the time to learn on their own which takes time, dedication and sacrifice. There is no easy way to become profitable in this business. The time they spend looking for a educator could be utilized in learning the markets themselves. I took a course with Emini Trading Strategies when I started out and it was throwing good money after bad. Others should listen to those who have made this mistake, but if they don't then they have to learn the hard way.

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  #20 (permalink)
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I very much disagree with your point. To say thay no one would take time to learn on thier own is just not true. That would state that you did not take time to learn on your own, or me, or any one in this forum. Very broad statment. Trading is hard and hence we look for help. We step into this profession because we motivated and looking for change and there are financial rewards that would come when one can make tradin work. In many cases trading has been compared to such professions as doctor, lawyer, or an accountant. The reason because when one becomes a professional trader one can make as much, or more then any doctor, or lawyer. Al Brooks is a doctor.. Right!!!
Have you ever seen a doctor who has not graduated from the medical school, or would you like to seek an advise from a lawyer who never attended a Law School.
Trading like any other profession is in need of education, dedication. And if we are lucky enough we might find a good honest mentor who would direct us in the correct path. Hence we look and try.
In the age of Internet its easy to find people, but can they teach is all different story. Hence we get into wishes cycle try this and try that.
I truly think educators are important in this business and it is up to us to decide who is who and if they are capable of helping us to succeed.

TickVix/Gregory

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  #21 (permalink)
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tickvix View Post
I very much disagree with your point. To say thay no one would take time to learn on thier own is just not true. That would state that you did not take time to learn on your own, or me, or any one in this forum. Very broad statment. Trading is hard and hence we look for help. We step into this profession because we motivated and looking for change and there are financial rewards that would come when one can make tradin work. In many cases trading has been compared to such professions as doctor, lawyer, or an accountant. The reason because when one becomes a professional trader one can make as much, or more then any doctor, or lawyer. Al Brooks is a doctor.. Right!!!
Have you ever seen a doctor who has not graduated from the medical school, or would you like to seek an advise from a lawyer who never attended a Law School.
Trading like any other profession is in need of education, dedication. And if we are lucky enough we might find a good honest mentor who would direct us in the correct path. Hence we look and try.
In the age of Internet its easy to find people, but can they teach is all different story. Hence we get into wishes cycle try this and try that.
I truly think educators are important in this business and it is up to us to decide who is who and if they are capable of helping us to succeed.

TickVix/Gregory

Bad comparison, this business is not the same. Who said that these so called educators have a degree or have been profitable traders themselves. Anyone could start a trading education course and never have been a profitable trader. And there are some out there believe it or not.

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  #22 (permalink)
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You missed my point. I do not argue with you that there are good, or bad educators. What I'm stating some people are in need of educational services. Finding one is hard.
Making statement that you have made that no one is taking time to learn on their own is just simply wrong.
You just cannot make such a broad statement, since there are different people. Some of us learn on their own some are looking for help.
If and when looking for help I would suggest to read a post made by Jaguar. In his post he is outlining very well how and what to look for when looking for some trading room/s, or an educator/s.

TickVix

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  #23 (permalink)
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tickvix View Post
You missed my point. I do not argue with you that there are good, or bad educators. What I'm stating some people are in need of educational services. Finding one is hard.
Making statement that you have made that no one is taking time to learn on their own is just simply wrong.
You just cannot make such a broad statement, since there are different people. Some of us learn on their own some are looking for help.
If and when looking for help I would suggest to read a post made by Jaguar. In his post he is outlining very well how and what to look for when looking for some trading room/s, or an educator/s.

TickVix

I agree not everyone is not willing to self educate. You should not take it so personal if it does not apply to you.

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  #24 (permalink)
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I am very opposed to trading educators touting their method as the greatest thing in the world, and you will absolutely make money if you take their course, or buy their system. That is pure advertising, and any person who wants to learn trading should know that. But, I do believe their is some merit, to check out various methods, because you will pick up little morcels of wisdom here and there that later will ultimately shape you as a trader.

My 1st trade room trial was with feltontrading, which introduced me to divergence, and then I spent some time at another trade room where I learn more about the MACD, then I took those 2 concepts and ran with them on my own, and I basically became a pure MACD divergence trader. In my progression, and further quests, I realized that the RSI is a much better divergence indicator then the MACD, so I now trade divergences with the RSI instead. Here are my trades this morning trading the GLD (Gold ETF) showing the Stoch, MACD and RSI. As you can see if I was scalping MACD divergences, I would have had my head handed to me. As you can see through out the big down move, the first RSI divergence is the one that worked, while the Stoch and MACD got murdered.

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  #25 (permalink)
Sydney NSW Australia
 
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I've thought a lot about why these courses don't work for anyone except the guy giving the course. There was one here in Australia that ran for 6 months with everyone saying how brilliant it was. In the end I questioned all 30 people doing it while they were drunk at the farewell party (this is Australia) & all 30 were losing money. You sit watching the course giver trade live & they never lose plus everything's personal, these guys stick with you answering questions no matter how long it takes. They may be faking it but they certainly look like they care and they prove over & over again that they're smart enough to make money live. And still it doesn't work. Why?
My take on it is this. I'm a photographer & when I snap a few of my friend's new hamster or baby or pet rock it's possibly going to look a bit better than if they do it themselves. And the reason is that I've got about seven things I instantly check before I take a photo. Angle, lighting, focal length, background, context, exposure & mainly zing have to be just right and I can't do it any other way. 30 years of doing it that way makes me. My guess is is that the course givers are the same, it's their experience that gives them their edge more than their systems.
My turning point was when I read in a blog on Emini Trading Strategies and one guy (bless him) said, no one will tell you this but you have to backtest your system back three months and if it works you then have to double your pretend money. Otherwise you lose. I did it & found out that many of these systems simply don't make money. A lot of us thought it was psychology, lack of understanding or the big one, discipline. Nope, it's usually the system. The worst are the 50% profit/50% loss ones, they'll keep you going for years thinking it's all your fault. Until you backtest them & find out it wasn't.
After all this I found that Roger Felton's course works so I'll only sing his praises. So what if I read his ideas in Elder six years earlier? And also, so what if it took me two years to be able to apply Roger's ideas? I think the whole thing is a process, well, more a battle, and if you come out at the end feeding your family by sitting with your feet up in front of a computer rather than chasing brides all over the country every weekend then I say good on the courses. Difficult yes but that's the way I suspect it's meant to be.

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  #26 (permalink)
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If you cannot trade a real account live in the room, or even trade a sim account in the room so people actually see you trade your method, then you should not be teaching it, it's a scam! It's easy to show an awesome track record that is hypothetical, where none of the trades on that track record were actually taken live. If the trade was not taken in the room for everyone to see live, then it cannot go on a track record. At the end of the day, when I review my charts I always have a 90%+ win rate!!! Sure, when all the bars are in front you, every setup is crystal clear, but when it comes to trading the hard right edge things look very different. That's why you cannot rely on hypothetical track records that are built by scanning a chart and marking up all the potential trades that could have been taken for that day after the trading day is already over. The worst is, some of these trading firms don't even bother to give you a hypothetical track record.

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  #27 (permalink)
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davidcohenphd View Post
You are wrong. I would never trade in a trading room because that's not how I trade in real life. Yet I am doing well enough to support myself through trading. I still may check out a vendor or two a year. Most cannot be trusted, of course, but you don't want to throw all of them into the same bag, everyone should be given the benefit of a doubt and treated individually, and some, even if very few have proven trustworthy. But in my opinion, those who trade in rooms like that are more likely to be marketers and not traders. And just because they can trade in a room does not mean you will be able to make money following them or to use their methods. Look at how this works for you, not for them. Learn from those who have some consistent track record, and not from those who have trading rooms. These are two different things.

Sure, I can make a spreadsheet for you showing you I have a 100% track record, I have never lost a trade in the past 10 years. Now, give me $5000 If I'm learning parachuting, I want my coach to be willing to jump out of the plane with me; if I am learning glass blowing, I want my coach to blow a vase in front of me; If I'm learning trading I want to see my coach be able to take and manage trades in front of my eyes. The only track record you should believe is when you see that trade room leader take 5 trades a day every day in the room, in front of your eyes, while you watch his DOM !!! It doesn't even have to be a live account, I can accept a Sim account, but I want to see you trade, before I give you my $5k, You need to show you believe in your method enough to trade it in front of me, on the cold, unforgiving , put up or shut up, hard right edge of the chart ...Just my humble opinion

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  #28 (permalink)
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Some interesting posts here...wish I'd seen it sooner. A couple of you guys posted some ideas that seem to be almost heresy in this industry. You just can't say that some educators are honest. You can't say that trading success requires work....LOL. Here are the facts as I understand them from most posts:
  • In trading, the system is everything. A monkey should be able to win with it or else it's snake oil.
  • Hard work, study and lots of practice are unnecessary if you find the right trading system. It's surely out there and shouldn't cost more than a few dollars.
  • A mentor's trading statements are proof positive that everyone will be successful.
  • Anyone good at anything that makes money would have to be insane to want to teach it.
Anyone really believe any of that stuff? A lot of traders do. If I buy Tiger Woods golf clubs, I'm guaranteed a win in the Masters Tournament, right? There is no trading system in the world that will make you a dime without lots of work. You have to know the markets you're trading for they each have their own little quirks. Your trading system is simply a tool to be used like a carpenter would use his table saw. If he never learns how to use that saw...and never practices with it, he'll probably not make it in his chosen craft.

Many traders expect the system to "do it all"...find, execute, manage and exit trades with great consistent profits while they sip their tea and watch TV. That's just not going to happen, folks. A great trading system is one that mechanically finds and identifies great entry points that offer excellent profit potential in the vast majority of the signals generated. If a trader uses such a system and consistently manages to lose, would the system be bad or would it likely be due to bad trade management?

Most traders who are not successful are ones that just got in their own way. Anyone who thinks they can work through their mental blocks and develop a winning trading system on their own or by reading a few books are kidding themselves. It can be done but most people don't have a decade or two to get there. Most highly successful trading professionals had a good mentor who could also teach. There's a great article on this topic in the Oct. issue of Active Trader magazine (pg.49).

I don't mind anyone saying whatever they want about me. I just wish they weren't guessing when they do it. 95% of the people who talk about me are traders who have never met me and certainly never spent a minute of their time trying to learn from me. Of those who did know me, I have never seen a comment questioning my dedication, knowledge or honesty.

Consider this: If you promise to never give me a dime, then let's set up a time to talk trader to trader. If you aren't as successful as you'd like to be, let me work with you for a while...one-on-one...even evenings or weekends...just like I do for my group. Once we've worked together for a while, come back to this thread and just be honest. Tell it how you see it. If I'm even remotely like anyone else, say so. If I teach snake oil, rip me to pieces. If you learned nothing, speak up. Just speak the truth. Fair enough, guys?

This is in no way a solicitation of any product offered at Felton Trading. No money will ever be asked for nor accepted from anyone responding to this post.

Happy trading from your futures.io (formerly BMT) colleague,

Roger

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  #29 (permalink)
 
 
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rogerf View Post
Many traders expect the system to "do it all"...find, execute, manage and exit trades with great consistent profits while they sip their tea and watch TV. That's just not going to happen, folks. A great trading system is one that mechanically finds and identifies great entry points that offer excellent profit potential in the vast majority of the signals generated.
Roger

Roger, I appreciate you coming here and stating your case. You have done it well and politely.
I agree with the statement above, as some people have unrealistic expectations and want auto-$$ in their account. But, this is not the case with most guys here.

Further, I feel for the retail crowd. First, they have to pay the educators (you) who at times run sites written by copy writers with "Who wants to finally stop losing..." and "While I sat in my mother's basement I came across a method I will share ONLY with the first 50"....
Then, there is the broker (me!) where they have to pay commissions...some advertise $2,500 and $300 margins...seriously!
But, wait there is more...
Then you need pay for the platform, the data feed, and historical tick data, etc....
Some of the guys are on their 6th attempt to try and get it right, and some have given up.
When everyone starts sounding the same, a pattern emerges, and your guard as a customer is up about everything. Criticism and/or negative feedback is just a factor of being tired.
Everyone is tired. This is why you can never take things personally.

look at the spirit of the site and how people share with one another here:codes, ideas,methodologies and the truth about their trading. I think this is a symptom of the past struggle remembering how tired they got to be in seeking their trading success. Now they share...for free.

Participate here, add good comments and sooner than later you will have good friends.
As a broker, I can tell you that I was always treated here with respect and even earned a little business along the way.

Roger, maybe you can even make a webinar one day (?) and teach some beginners a few techniques that helped you as a trader.

I wish you success and helping many beginner traders

Matt

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #30 (permalink)
Moving
 
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Roger,
You saying you are not here to solicit any business but you really are by claiming:
- you can make individuals successful via what you offer
- you state you are a trader when in fact you are just an educator (show me a statement and I will rest my case)
- indirectly claiming you attained success as a trader, otherwise why would anyone bother to follow you? If you are truly successful as a trader, then a verified statement will go a long way!

Nice work to plug your case but this is just another poor selling pitch.


rogerf View Post
Consider this: If you promise to never give me a dime, then let's set up a time to talk trader to trader. If you aren't as successful as you'd like to be, let me work with you for a while...
Roger

Matt,
What makes you say Roger is a trader?


mattz View Post
Roger, maybe you can even make a webinar one day (?) and teach some beginners a few techniques that helped you as a trader.
Matt


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  #31 (permalink)
Bala, PA, USA
 
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kashter View Post
Roger,
You saying you are not here to solicit any business but you really are by claiming:
- you can make individuals successful via what you offer
- you state you are a trader when in fact you are just an educator (show me a statement and I will rest my case)
- indirectly claiming you attained success as a trader, otherwise why would anyone bother to follow you? If you are truly successful as a trader, then a verified statement will go a long way!

Nice work to plug your case but this is just another poor selling pitch.

Matt,
What makes you say Roger is a trader?

A verified statement would be good, but I think trading the actual methodology live or in Sim in the room in front of your students with nothing hidden is best, because a verified statement may not actually be from the system they are teaching. I've been to 2 different rooms, and actually worked for one of them, where the teacher did not personally trade the system they were selling. When the system would get 3 losers in a row, they would say I got winners on those because I use a more aggressive entry, or I got a better fill, or I don't take this kind of entry, etc. One of them kept saying he is both long and short on the same instrument at the same time on the same account! First, that was not part of the system, 2nd, although I think this is technically possible with NinjaTrader, I don't know of any broker which allows that. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, because I'd love to try that if I can

My generic issue as a whole with most trading rooms in the industry is, if you are teaching a system, you should be able to trade that system at least in Sim mode in front of your students. I advise anyone to take a free trial for any room they are considering, and determine how they feel about that room, and if a vendor does not offer a free trial, then skip it altogether.

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  #32 (permalink)
East Rochester, NY
 
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monpere View Post
One of them kept saying he is both long and short on the same instrument at the same time on the same account! First, that was not part of the system, 2nd, although I think this is technically possible with NinjaTrader, I don't know of any broker which allows that. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, because I'd love to try that if I can

This is easily done by using two DOMs and having a different ATM on each one. This method of trading is very common and is important if you are short long term but want to take a long counter trade, for example.

Dan

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  #33 (permalink)
 
 
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kashter View Post
Matt,
What makes you say Roger is a trader?

I just assumed that if someone teaches they have some real trading experience (?)

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #34 (permalink)
Victoria, TX
 
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Posts: 132 since Apr 2010

Thanks Matt,

I do about 70 webinars a year for various brokers, NinjaTrader, etc. They are purely educational and sales pitches are never allowed. Most traders appreciate that. Several archived presentations are available for viewing anytime.

I have offered to do a purely educational webinar for the futures.io (formerly BMT) community but Big Mike kindly informed me that his policy is to never allow vendors to do presentations here. I respect his decision.

Happy Holidays, Matt

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  #35 (permalink)
Victoria, TX
 
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rogerf's Avatar
 
Posts: 132 since Apr 2010

To the futures.io (formerly BMT) group,

I think kashter's post is a good example of the point I was trying to make in my original response. I believe skepticism is essential in this industry. Everyone knows that some of the worst con artists and thieves on the planet are now trading gurus. Never, never, never stop being skeptical.

But skepticism should be tempered with some degree of open-mindedness or else you get people who believe the earth is flat and 9/11 was an inside job.

Kaster states that I said, "I can make individuals successful via what I offer." Really? What I actually said was, "If you aren't as successful as you'd like to be, let me work with you for a while...one-on-one...even evenings or weekends...just like I do for my group. Once we've worked together for a while, come back to this thread and just be honest." Did that sound like a promise of success? That certainly was not my intent.

Was this sincere offer just a ploy to peddle my wares? Absolutely not. I firmly stated that I was willing to try to help anyone if they would promise to "never pay me a dime"..."No money will ever be asked for nor accepted from anyone responding to this post". I don't think I could make that point any plainer. If my intentions were not honorable, you guys would come back here and hammer me to mush.

Kaster's mind seems to be made up about me and my intent. But I'm sure there are some who would be willing to get to know me a bit before passing judgement. The ones who understand that an offer of help is not a promise of eternal success. Those are the ones I'd like a chance to work with. The futures.io (formerly BMT) community is a terrific assortment of guys and gals from all walks of life, nationalities and levels of experience. I'm just trying to contribute something back.

Happy Holidays everyone and keep those great posts going!

Roger Felton

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  #36 (permalink)
Santa Maria
 
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rogerf View Post
...Consider this: If you promise to never give me a dime, then let's set up a time to talk trader to trader. If you aren't as successful as you'd like to be, let me work with you for a while...one-on-one...even evenings or weekends...just like I do for my group. Once we've worked together for a while, come back to this thread and just be honest. Tell it how you see it. If I'm even remotely like anyone else, say so. If I teach snake oil, rip me to pieces. If you learned nothing, speak up. Just speak the truth. Fair enough, guys?
This is in no way a solicitation of any product offered at Felton Trading. No money will ever be asked for nor accepted from anyone responding to this post.

Happy trading from your futures.io (formerly BMT) colleague,

Roger

I took Roger up on his offer. So far I can report the offer itself was sincere. He has given me a logon for his trading room (which I can not comment on yet, as it is closed for the holidays). We will be having our first mentoring session when I get home from work tonight. As Roger asked in return for his offer, I'll post feedback here.

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  #37 (permalink)
Santa Maria
 
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Roger spent more than 1.5 hours with me last night. I can honestly say I learned some things, which will hopefully make me a better trader.

It's true, as can be said of many vendors, that most of his indicators are freely available in some form, and some may have come from right here on Big Mikes (he's also using Aslan's BetterRenko). However, there is value added; he's taken these standard indicators and formed them into a system, where they are used in mutual support to mark clear entry and exit point suggestions on the chart. Much of the programming is well beyond my current capabilities.

He also has one indicator that is beyond anything I've come across in the free arena, it conveys information from arbitrary larger time frames and chart types. For instance, we were looking at a 5 better renko chart with this indicator showing the current bar direction from a 10 better renko and a 500 tick line break. The unique aspect is that it does this without the horizontal distortion which is characteristic of Ninja multiple timeframe charts.

I look forward to learning more from him in 2011.

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  #38 (permalink)
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Thanks for sharing your experiences @fluxsmith.

Happy New Year

Mike

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  #39 (permalink)
USA
 
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rogerf View Post
To the futures.io (formerly BMT) group,

I think kashter's post is a good example of the point I was trying to make in my original response. I believe skepticism is essential in this industry. Everyone knows that some of the worst con artists and thieves on the planet are now trading gurus. Never, never, never stop being skeptical.

But skepticism should be tempered with some degree of open-mindedness or else you get people who believe the earth is flat and 9/11 was an inside job.

Kaster states that I said, "I can make individuals successful via what I offer." Really? What I actually said was, "If you aren't as successful as you'd like to be, let me work with you for a while...one-on-one...even evenings or weekends...just like I do for my group. Once we've worked together for a while, come back to this thread and just be honest." Did that sound like a promise of success? That certainly was not my intent.

Was this sincere offer just a ploy to peddle my wares? Absolutely not. I firmly stated that I was willing to try to help anyone if they would promise to "never pay me a dime"..."No money will ever be asked for nor accepted from anyone responding to this post". I don't think I could make that point any plainer. If my intentions were not honorable, you guys would come back here and hammer me to mush.

Kaster's mind seems to be made up about me and my intent. But I'm sure there are some who would be willing to get to know me a bit before passing judgement. The ones who understand that an offer of help is not a promise of eternal success. Those are the ones I'd like a chance to work with. The futures.io (formerly BMT) community is a terrific assortment of guys and gals from all walks of life, nationalities and levels of experience. I'm just trying to contribute something back.

Happy Holidays everyone and keep those great posts going!

Roger Felton

Roger

I would love to know if your offer is still valid? I emailed to you several times from futures.io (formerly BMT) and from your own website but never got any reply. If your offer is still on the table please let me know

Thank you

TickVix/Gregory

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  #40 (permalink)
Victoria, TX
 
Experience: Master
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rogerf's Avatar
 
Posts: 132 since Apr 2010

Yes, Gregory, the offer is valid and has no set expiration date. My students are in good shape for now so I should have sufficient free time to work with anyone requesting my help from futures.io (formerly BMT). I can do this as long as time allows.

I have some things to share with you that I think you'll find useful. Understand that my help is not a guarantee of success. But, as a fellow futures.io (formerly BMT) member, I will assist you as much as humanly possible.

I have previously responded to your initial request but did not hear back from you. I look forward to helping you as much as possible. Please email me directly at Roger@FeltonTrading.com and we'll set up a time to get together.

Thanks Gregory!

Roger

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  #41 (permalink)
new york
 
Experience: Intermediate
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kashter View Post
Roger,
You saying you are not here to solicit any business but you really are by claiming:
- you can make individuals successful via what you offer
- you state you are a trader when in fact you are just an educator (show me a statement and I will rest my case)
- indirectly claiming you attained success as a trader, otherwise why would anyone bother to follow you? If you are truly successful as a trader, then a verified statement will go a long way!

Nice work to plug your case but this is just another poor selling pitch.



Matt,
What makes you say Roger is a trader?

Kashter,
"a verified statement will go along way"

That's what my crusade for the pas t 6 years is all about, maybe I should join felton's cours and drop another 2k to find out...LOL

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  #42 (permalink)
Northern California
 
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Bobby,

Have you considered taking Roger up on his free offer?

Nothing to lose........

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  #43 (permalink)
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bobbyacim View Post
Kashter,
"a verified statement will go along way"

That's what my crusade for the pas t 6 years is all about, maybe I should join felton's cours and drop another 2k to find out...LOL

I really, really really don't want to beat a dead horse... . Plus this is venturing and has already been said multiple times in your other thread....

But if your crusade for the past 6 years is to find a profitable trading statement, then you need a different crusade -- assuming your goal is to become a profitable trader.

I have nothing against Roger, but my advice is to NOT buy any other system or methodology because that is exactly what you have done all these years, and you yourself have said it hasn't worked for you.

Mike

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  #44 (permalink)
Auckland
 
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Thank you Jeff

Roger has come here and made an offer to us and he is willing to give his valuable time to educate us.

Lets respect Roger for that and learn from him.

Who else has made similar offer.

Lets keep this thread going with positive approach

sharmas

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  #45 (permalink)
new york
 
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Big Mike View Post
I really, really really don't want to beat a dead horse... . Plus this is venturing and has already been said multiple times in your other thread....

But if your crusade for the past 6 years is to find a profitable trading statement, then you need a different crusade -- assuming your goal is to become a profitable trader.

I have nothing against Roger, but my advice is to NOT buy any other system or methodology because that is exactly what you have done all these years, and you yourself have said it hasn't worked for you.

Mike

Big Milke Rules!
No more courses, systems for me. I will just hang it up. Good luck to the rest of you good folks out there.

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  #46 (permalink)
Victoria, TX
 
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Quite a variety of trader opinions noted here. As a trading education vendor, I'll probably always be the red-headed stepchild in the futures.io (formerly BMT) group. But I would like to try clarifying one thing one more time. I do not need nor do I want anybody's money in this group. I really consider my sincere offer as a sacred promise to help anyone wanting it and leave your wallet in your pocket. If I accept a dime from anyone here asking for help, then I demand that Big Mike ban me from this fine group forever. I'd deserve it.

Can I honestly help anyone? I sure hope so or I just spent a lot of years in the wrong business...lol. Whether I can help any of you who are struggling to make it in this tough business is up to you guys to decide. But I will say this, one of you whom many of you know and trust to be totally truthful took me up on my mentorship offer. I mentored with him earlier and today he spent the entire day with me in my trading room...free, of course. From what he told me, I understand he had a super trading day simply following my lead. But I'm sure he'll report back to you guys with more details. It's all I've requested from those wanting help here.

I think sharmas had a great idea in that we all treat each other with respect. If I'm a scammer like so many are in this biz, then I'll get what I deserve soon enough. But this group is all about traders helping traders...friends helping friends. Right? I didn't make the offer to start a ruckus. If the offer I made is going to cause a problem in any way, I will withdraw it with no hard feelings.

For your aspirations and opinions I have the utmost respect...and I'm trying really hard to earn yours.

Roger

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  #47 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Quebec
 
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fluxsmith View Post
...He also has one indicator that is beyond anything I've come across in the free arena, it conveys information from arbitrary larger time frames and chart types. For instance, we were looking at a 5 better renko chart with this indicator showing the current bar direction from a 10 better renko and a 500 tick line break. The unique aspect is that it does this without the horizontal distortion which is characteristic of Ninja multiple timeframe charts.

I look forward to learning more from him in 2011.

Interesting as i placed a request in this thread to get rid of this distortion effect in order to produce valuable combinations but was asked if it was worth the effort to code this type of indicator.

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  #48 (permalink)
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actually this was the answer you received,

This is definitely possible.

For example you can display the values of a minute based indicator on a Renko chart without creating the distortion of the bars. Displaying values calculated from Renko bars and displying them on a minute chart will be more diffcult, but possible as well. I think you would need to start with a specific example.

and you gave 3 examples and this is the answer you received,

Here are 3 indicators which plot lines (potential S/R) i'd like to apply these indicators on a RENKO data series but see the results on a time based chart. Or the opposite, apply them on a time based interval but see the results on a RENKO or Tick Chart.

Swing indicator using Ray Lines:

CCIPivots for NT7:
CCI pivot zones (EasyLanguage)
TRO_Dynamic_SR3
Wizards Den (Holy Grail II)

For all these indicators the pivots plotted should be very similar - if not identical - for range and minute bars. Are you sure that it is worth the effort to code this?

sharky

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  #49 (permalink)
MIAMI,FL
 
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im sure the programmers here have a full plate and they need time to trade also,give them a break they do what they can without asking anything in return...sharky

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  #50 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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sharky View Post
im sure the programmers here have a full plate and they need time to trade also,give them a break they do what they can without asking anything in return...sharky

sharky i am not sure if it's the place to write this but since you posted an 'horrible' remark with wrong supposition i'll add my 2 cents. My comment was made not so much to get such an indicator ASAP. Au contraire, it was made to show i was not dreaming and that such a need was shared by other users of Ninjatrader. Fat Tails had asked if it was worth its time to create such a beast but i was not able to find a convincing application in my first draft. Apparently, someone else pushed the idea a bit further. In short, i don't need your moral lesson.

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i have no morals...sharky

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it's good to be rich ahhhhhhhh...sharky

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bobbyacim View Post
Kashter,
"a verified statement will go along way"

That's what my crusade for the pas t 6 years is all about, maybe I should join felton's cours and drop another 2k to find out...LOL

Much like the great crusades of the past, you will probably end up surprised at how little you find. A profitable trading statement (Annual) is as hard to come by from a vendor.

I believe it is like this in every business though. GS makes more money off of services, transactions, etc.

Where I develop real estate in Hawaii, there are so few 'real' developers that it is a joke to find one. They don't exist. People only want to sell you services. So, when I tell people I am a developer they ask me who I work for... haha...

They don't get it.... I don't think this is something you or anyone can change. But, for me personally, it sure is inspiring to see some profitable traders share their good fortune.

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sharky View Post
it's good to be rich ahhhhhhhh...sharky

I guess that fits inline w/ the 'shark' aspect.

I used to talk like that when I made a bit of money. Now I laugh when I see that and thanks for the reflection chuckle.

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Hey Roger,
I appreciate the transparency, coming from the retail biz your quality of product and service will eventually speak for itself. But members must remember a mentor/teacher can only go so far, the other half is the student. Success to all Happy New Year.....

Babypowder.

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it was ment to make everyone chuckle lol...sharky

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sharky View Post
it was ment to make everyone chuckle lol...sharky

Reminds me of the old movie, History of the World Part II (If I recall right..)

"It's GOOD TO BE THE KING..." haha...

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You are correct...a mentor can only do so much. But could it be that success doesn't come from learning, hard work, practice and self-control? Maybe not even from dedicated mentorship or mastery of a good system? Alas, I have come to realize that the secret to lasting success comes from a trader/mentor who has spent decades honing his craft. But, his skill, his extensive knowledge, his vast experience and his ability to teach are meaningless in the divine presence of the Holy Grail of Transferable Success...the trading statement. It's so simple. You can see the energy flow right through the paper. One merely needs to tap his followers on the shoulders with it, as in a knighthood ceremony, and ***POOF*** everyone can skip the work, become filthy rich and all is forever well in the land of bulls and bears. The trading statement...it's magic I tell ya...

Hope ya saw the satire, Babypowder (you gotta tell me the story behind that name, lol)

....Roger

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Yesterday was my New Year holiday, so I had the opportunity to trade all day instead of going to my day job, and spent the day in the Felton trading room for the first time. First, on my own... my autotrader lost $700 (it has about 10 loosing days a year), then I managed to loose another $300 on my own charts and methods. At a thousand in the hole, and at a relative disadvantage because I don't have his indicator system, I started really following what was going on in the room. Using charts styled after his and trying to heed what they're teaching I traded my way back to +$50 for the day.
Most if not all the trades shown are in simulation, but there is no attempt to conceal that. Many instruments are followed, yesterday trades were shown on CL, 6E, GC, and probably others.
I'm grateful for the offer Roger made to assist Big Mike members and what I've learned so far.

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fluxsmith View Post
Yesterday was my New Year holiday, so I had the opportunity to trade all day instead of going to my day job, and spent the day in the Felton trading room for the first time. First, on my own... my autotrader lost $700 (it has about 10 loosing days a year), then I managed to loose another $300 on my own charts and methods. At a thousand in the hole, and at a relative disadvantage because I don't have his indicator system, I started really following what was going on in the room. Using charts styled after his and trying to heed what they're teaching I traded my way back to +$50 for the day.
Most if not all the trades shown are in simulation, but there is no attempt to conceal that. Many instruments are followed, yesterday trades were shown on CL, 6E, GC, and probably others.
I'm grateful for the offer Roger made to assist Big Mike members and what I've learned so far.

fluxsmith, i am curious to know. Since there are only a hanful of setups available for any instrument (most are known and widely public) like similar top/bottom, swing continuation or bounce off a trendline, MA etc. I suppose it's not the setups that are particular so if it's not the 'system' what would you say is unique about his approach ? Unique enough to shout eureka! here is a method or approach that will transform my entire trading cosmology. You will still chop wood as before but your realisation will be different.

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Since there had been so much discussion about Roger......I decided to check him out for myself.

I sat in on Roger's trading room yesterday and this morning.

Three things I can tell you about Roger........#1 HE MAKES MONEY TRADING.....he has a $1,000/day goal.....he often exceeds that and rarely has a losing day.(I saw him do this right before my eyes) #2 DISPITE BEING A "TRADING EDUCATOR" ROGER IS A GOOD GUY....and #3 HE IS A MASTER OF DIVERGENCE.....if you ever wondered who is taking the other side of your trade.....it is probably Roger and the people he has trained.

Probably the best thing about Roger is he is a futures.io (formerly BMT) member.......one of us. He has made a very generous offer to help any struggling futures.io (formerly BMT) traders for free. This is unprecedented. He is like a lawyer doing some pro bono work right here on the futures.io (formerly BMT) forum.

The question is "Why would Roger do this?" Well........that's a no brainer.......sure....he hopes that he might attract some clients. BUT.....he has stated emphatically that he will not take a dime from any futures.io (formerly BMT) member. Interestingly, Roger has benefitted from being a member of futures.io (formerly BMT). He uses Better Renko bars which can only be obtained by being a futures.io (formerly BMT) elite member. He refers to the futures.io (formerly BMT) forum during the course of the day and recommends that his students check out the forum. So......bottomline I think this is Roger's way of giving back.

So now what? How about this.........we let Roger do a futures.io (formerly BMT) webinar on DIVERGENCE. Yes I know.....he is a vendor. BUT, he is also an asset to the futures.io (formerly BMT) forum that we should take advantage of. If anyone is interested in Roger doing a webinar they will have to prevail on Big Mike as the current forum rules would not allow such a webinar. Personally, I don't think it's any different than having Al Brooks do a webinar.......Brooks sells a book......Roger sells trading education.

Just so you know.......I am NOT a Roger Felton student......

Give it some thought, Jeff

Oh......Roger has 10 basic set ups........5 bullish, 5 bearish.......6 have to do with basic divergence, extended divergence and hidden divergence.

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Thank you Jeff. I will contact him.

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Jeff Castille View Post
Oh......Roger has 10 basic set ups........5 bullish, 5 bearish.......6 have to do with basic divergence, extended divergence and hidden divergence.

Never heard about this one, extended divergence !!! Does it mean a broken divergence ?

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trendisyourfriend View Post
Never heard about this one, extended divergence !!! Does it mean a broken divergence ?

Roger goes into a detailed explaintion here.....

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Roger goes into a detailed explaintion here.....

I don't care much for extended divergences. If you look far back enough on any chart, you will be sure to fool your brain in seeing an extended divergence.

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Hi Jeff
How many days did you spend in his room to come to the conclusion that he is a master trader who rarely has a losing day?
thks

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trendisyourfriend View Post
fluxsmith, i am curious to know. Since there are only a hanful of setups available for any instrument (most are known and widely public) like similar top/bottom, swing continuation or bounce off a trendline, MA etc. I suppose it's not the setups that are particular so if it's not the 'system' what would you say is unique about his approach ? Unique enough to shout eureka! here is a method or approach that will transform my entire trading cosmology. You will still chop wood as before but your realisation will be different.

The ideas probably aren't unique. But some of the presentation is (or is at least different from any I've seen previously).

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Linds View Post
Hi Jeff
How many days did you spend in his room to come to the conclusion that he is a master trader who rarely has a losing day?
thks

Hi Linds,

As I stated in my previous post......I visited Roger's trading room yesterday and this morning. I suggest that you DO NOT BELIEVE ME!!!!!!! See for yourself. Roger offers a 5 day free trial to his room to anybody.

I can usually tell if a trader knows his shit or not in about 2 seconds.......how about you?

Jeff

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thks Jeff
Well my BS detector is a lot better than it was a couple ago! But I have seen some very elaborate and clever efforts. Not saying Roger isnt legit just curious how he has won everyone over so quickly.

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Oh.......I also spent more than two hours after RTH with Roger......he is a wealth of information. You can doubt all you want. If you are interested see for yourself.

Personally.......I think Roger is a good trader with a gift for teaching. He has succeeded at turning these talents into two businesses........the trading part and the teaching part.

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Linds View Post
thks Jeff
Well my BS detector is a lot better than it was a couple ago! But I have seen some very elaborate and clever efforts. Not saying Roger isnt legit just curious how he has won everyone over so quickly.

some maybe but def not everyone.

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Jeff Castille View Post
Oh.......I also spent more than two hours after RTH with Roger......he is a wealth of information. You can doubt all you want. If you are interested see for yourself.

Personally.......I think Roger is a good trader with a gift for teaching. He has succeeded at turning these talents into two businesses........the trading part and the teaching part.


You had a 2 hour consultation, and determined he is a good teacher, I can accept that. I actually took is free trial many years ago, and agree he is a good teacher and seems to be a general good guy. But, you spent 2 days in his trading room, how many actual trades did you actually see him take live or even sim for you to determine he is a good trader?

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some maybe but def not everyone.

are you everyone ? I ask this as i have been searching this person for so long and never found him.

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Roger's style of trading is not for everyone.........

If you are going to trade divergence you have to have an indicator or two for price to be divergent from. In Roger's case he uses a tweaked up stochastic indicator D line set to 6/5/2 AND a MACD trigger set to 5/12/9 as confirmation.

Personally, I am more of a trend trader.......and as you know the market trends less than 40 % of the time.......so it pays to be able to employ a strategy on days when the market is NOT trending.

Jeff

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Jeff Castille View Post
Roger's style of trading is not for everyone.........

If you are going to trade divergence you have to have an indicator or two for price to be divergent from. In Roger's case he uses a tweaked up stochastic indicator D line set to 6/5/2 AND a MACD trigger set to 5/12/9 as confirmation.

Personally, I am more of a trend trader.......and as you know the market trends less than 40 % of the time.......so it pays to be able to employ a strategy on days when the market is NOT trending.

Jeff

Jeff,

Like Roger, you did not have to do this. This shows your willingness to help others! That is greatly appreciated and helpful to many. You save many people a lot of effort through all your assistance, so a big shout out of thanks to you! I have enjoyed reading many posts.

I have reviewed so many rooms that I too feel that within a couple of minutes can detect a bullshit artist. A good skill to have prior to starting training.

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bluemele View Post
Jeff,

Like Roger, you did not have to do this. This shows your willingness to help others! That is greatly appreciated and helpful to many. You save many people a lot of effort through all your assistance, so a big shout out of thanks to you! I have enjoyed reading many posts.

I have reviewed so many rooms that I too feel that within a couple of minutes can detect a bullshit artist. A good skill to have prior to starting training.

LOL.......yes......this detection ability is the first skill a trader must develop!!!! LOL

Bottomline is......not every "trading educator " is a jerk. I know that when I first started trading I couldn't understand why a successful trader would bother with teaching if they could make a great living off of trading. Then I came to understand that everyone needs some kind of mentorship and the trading lifestyle affords plenty of time for a successful trader to mentor other traders. It's a good income diversification for those who have teaching skills.

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Jeff Castille View Post
Roger's style of trading is not for everyone.........

If you are going to trade divergence you have to have an indicator or two for price to be divergent from. In Roger's case he uses a tweaked up stochastic indicator D line set to 6/5/2 AND a MACD trigger set to 5/12/9 as confirmation.

Personally, I am more of a trend trader.......and as you know the market trends less than 40 % of the time.......so it pays to be able to employ a strategy on days when the market is NOT trending.

Jeff

Did you get permission from Roger to share the indicators he uses and their parameters? As I understand it from some of his more recent free webinars, he is now using 'proprietary' indicators called something like cycle indicator and some other proprietary indicator, which looks interestingly like a MACD and Stochastics I am a pure divergence trader myself, and for a good while used the MACD and Stochastics exactly like Roger, and the Trader's International guys, but I've replaced them with 2 different indicators that I find work better for me in filtering out a lot of the bad divergences the MACD will give you in certain market conditions.

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monpere View Post
Did you get permission from Roger to share the indicators he uses and their parameters? As I understand it from some of his more recent free webinars, he is now using 'proprietary' indicators called something like cycle indicator and some other proprietary indicator, which looks interestingly like a MACD and Stochastics I am a pure divergence trader myself, and for a good while used the MACD and Stochastics exactly like Roger, and the Trader's International guys, but I've replaced them with 2 different indicators that I find work better for me in filtering out a lot of the bad divergences the MACD will give you in certain market conditions.

I don't think Roger is worried about me giving his indicator settings away as there is much more to his system than a secret setting on the MACD or Stoch. His integration of these indicators into his "Divergence Pro" indicator is his master piece. It has taken him many years with the help of a very talented programmer to accomplish this task.

In my conversation with Roger he spoke of the possibility of posting some of his indicators in the elite section........I know we won't get the "Divergence Pro".... but...........some of the others indicators that he uses are very interesting and I would certainly like to take a look at them......particuliarly the the stoch that is overlayed in panel one and the price channel. So how about it Roger..........perhaps a few indicators in the elite section?

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I don't think Roger is worried about me giving his indicator settings away as there is much more to his system than a secret setting on the MACD or Stoch. His integration of these indicators into his "Divergence Pro" indicator is his master piece. It has taken him many years with the help of a very talented programmer to accomplish this task.

In my conversation with Roger he spoke of the possibility of posting some of his indicators in the elite section........I know we won't get the "Divergence Pro".... but...........some of the others indicators that he uses are very interesting and I would certainly like to take a look at them......particuliarly the the stoch that is overlayed in panel one and the price channel. So how about it Roger..........perhaps a few indicators in the elite section?

What did you find so spectacular about the Divergence Pro indicator?

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monpere View Post
What did you find so spectacular about the Divergence Pro indicator?

Well.......Divergence Pro identifies three types of divergence with multi time frame confirmation in real time and paints it on the chart........have you ever seen any other divergence indicator do that? I haven't.........I am not a divergence trader BUT even I was impressed.

Also, I believe that you mentioned that you did Roger's 5 day trial before.....as did I........BUT.......what I saw this time was a bit different than years ago. In the past there was all this talk about a "black box" system he was developing....now that is not the case. Personally, I much prefer the current emphasis.

Also.....Divergence Pro spots two with the trend trades.......

Jeff

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Of course, I'd be glad to post some of them. I was actually waiting to hear back from Big Mike to get the ok...didn't know his policy about vendors posting their "stuff".

I'd like to personally thank you guys for taking the time to come and start checking me out. I can't express how delighted I'd be to help anyone in this exceptional group of traders.

Glad some of you are beginning to realize that my parents really were married...so all those rumors about me aren't true...LOL

Your friend,

Roger

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  #82 (permalink)
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@rogerf, the only real issue is no DLL's. Otherwise there is no problem for you to share your stuff if you want to do that.

What you need to do is just create a new thread with an appropriate topic in The Elite Circle forum then you can talk about the indicator and attach it there. Or if you want to have one thread for multiple indicators that is fine as well.

Mike

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  #83 (permalink)
Victoria, TX
 
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Thanks Mike,

Glad to upload them for the Elite folks. As a relative newbie, maybe someone could give me a crash course in doing that as well as starting a new thread. I'm a chart nerd...

The indicators I'll share are pretty good but, to get the max out of them, the group really should have some training so let me know if we can arrange that after the indicators are posted.

Roger

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  #84 (permalink)
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rogerf View Post
Thanks Mike,

Glad to upload them for the Elite folks. As a relative newbie, maybe someone could give me a crash course in doing that as well as starting a new thread. I'm a chart nerd...

The indicators I'll share are pretty good but, to get the max out of them, the group really should have some training so let me know if we can arrange that after the indicators are posted.

Roger

Hey Roger,

This is great......thanks for sharing!

To start a thread in the Elite Circle just click on the Elite Circle on the front page of the forum.....once you are there scroll down a little and you will see a "new thread" button......just click on it and fill in the various sections.....if you have any problems.....I'll just start the thread for you and you can upload to your hearts content.

Jeff

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  #85 (permalink)
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I really don't have anything against a 'vendor' coming on the forum and hanging out and being a 'good' guy.

I visited Roger in the early 2000's in Austin, TX and hung out with him in his trading office for 1/2 day with his projection monitor {when he was with Traders International}.

Never signed up--neutral.

Roger is quite articulate (Southern style dialect). My personal opinion here; he is NOT hurting his potential sales being part of this rather specialized forum.

Very very few traders find this forum; especially new traders.

Regardless, though a free trial is pretty much a requirement at this point; in my humble opinion trading 'rooms' with an overlayed "method" should never cost several K upfront.

A better price structure is a monthly fee with option to buy--with monthly costs credited toward lifetime purchase.

But what do I know? What the market will bear, eh?

Divergence trading is simply buying bottoms and selling tops with short-term confirmation and you need a high winning % in order to come out ahead as your reward:risk gets closer to 1:1.

If you have an intial reward:risk of under 1.0 then you must scratch alot of trades and manage alot of your losers before they go to full losers.

That written; this is a good thread.

peace

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  #86 (permalink)
Victoria, Australia
 
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Jeff Castille View Post
Oh.......I also spent more than two hours after RTH with Roger......he is a wealth of information. You can doubt all you want. If you are interested see for yourself.

Personally.......I think Roger is a good trader with a gift for teaching. He has succeeded at turning these talents into two businesses........the trading part and the teaching part.

No worries Jeff...Personally Im not interested. He is clearly a very impressive personality based on yours and Fluxsmiths responses and knows something about trading. And given the reception and acknowledgement he has recieved here I would be surprised if a few new members havent or will become his clients. So it will be a good return for his efforts and hopefully a good investment for his new clients.

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  #87 (permalink)
Bala, PA, USA
 
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Linds View Post
No worries Jeff...Personally Im not interested. He is clearly a very impressive personality based on yours and Fluxsmiths responses and knows something about trading. And given the reception and acknowledgement he has recieved here I would be surprised if a few new members havent or will become his clients. So it will be a good return for his efforts and hopefully a good investment for his new clients.

I suspect Roger is a good business man as well, and the thoughts that you express, I'm sure also crossed his mind. He had nothing to lose, he made an effort to defend his integrity, and in the process maybe pick up a couple of potential clients... It's a win/win for him On the other side, a couple of you guys had the opportunity to get his perspective on the markets.

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  #88 (permalink)
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rogerf View Post
Thanks Mike,

to get the max out of them, the group really should have some training so let me know if we can arrange that after the indicators are posted.

Roger

I would accept this offer first and focus on the indis second . Roger is a master at reading market structure and Im sure he will tell you its the "where" to trade thats most important . He has an insight about price structure and form thats invaluable and you will serve yourself well picking his brain on these subjects .

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  #89 (permalink)
Bala, PA, USA
 
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researcher247 View Post
I really don't have anything against a 'vendor' coming on the forum and hanging out and being a 'good' guy.

I visited Roger in the early 2000's in Austin, TX and hung out with him in his trading office for 1/2 day with his projection monitor {when he was with Traders International}.

Never signed up--neutral.

Roger is quite articulate (Southern style dialect). My personal opinion here; he is NOT hurting his potential sales being part of this rather specialized forum.

Very very few traders find this forum; especially new traders.

Regardless, though a free trial is pretty much a requirement at this point; in my humble opinion trading 'rooms' with an overlayed "method" should never cost several K upfront.

A better price structure is a monthly fee with option to buy--with monthly costs credited toward lifetime purchase.

But what do I know? What the market will bear, eh?

Divergence trading is simply buying bottoms and selling tops with short-term confirmation and you need a high winning % in order to come out ahead as your reward:risk gets closer to 1:1.

If you have an intial reward:risk of under 1.0 then you must scratch alot of trades and manage alot of your losers before they go to full losers.

That written; this is a good thread.

peace

You don't need to have a 1:1 or less reward/risk ratio to trade divergence, With a 6 or 8 tick target, and 3 or 4 tick stop, I trade divergence with 2:1 reward/risk, and most of my entries have 3:1, and a good number have 4:1 available. I trade 2:1 because I hate sitting through pullbacks, I hit my targets on the 1st push. I want the 1st pull back to stop me out, or break me even. And, contrary to popular belief, not all divergences are counter trend, about 1/3 of my divergence signals are with the trend.

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  #90 (permalink)
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I have been in the room the last couple of days.

He had a very bad day Thursday and didn't hide the fact that he lost a substantial amount. I had stopped watching, but somehow I came back and voila his DOM was slightly profitable? Now, I could take my DOM offline and add a bunch of quantity and get myself back to profit as well, so I don't know what he did to do that and honestly don't trust anything I can't see. (My issues I know...)

He was up substantially on Friday already prior to the time shown on the website to enter the room, but I watched for a few hours and he made about 350.00 more himself.

He seems not to follow too many of his own signals and is selective. He trades for a 'brick' most times where the renko brick is typically 4.

I think he could and is a profitable trader, although I don't know when/if he trades live compared to SIM.

Here is my take:

1. Roger is about the sweetest guy you will see in this business.
2. If you were part of his program then you could learn to be profitable.
3. He is honest and has integrity from talking w/ him and he makes you feel good about trading.

If I were new at trading, this is something I would jump on. I am trying to get a friend to take a closer look.

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  #91 (permalink)
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bluemele View Post
I have been in the room the last couple of days.

He had a very bad day Thursday and didn't hide the fact that he lost a substantial amount. I had stopped watching, but somehow I came back and voila his DOM was slightly profitable? Now, I could take my DOM offline and add a bunch of quantity and get myself back to profit as well, so I don't know what he did to do that and honestly don't trust anything I can't see. (My issues I know...)

He was up substantially on Friday already prior to the time shown on the website to enter the room, but I watched for a few hours and he made about 350.00 more himself.

He seems not to follow too many of his own signals and is selective. He trades for a 'brick' most times where the renko brick is typically 4.

I think he could and is a profitable trader, although I don't know when/if he trades live compared to SIM.

Here is my take:

1. Roger is about the sweetest guy you will see in this business.
2. If you were part of his program then you could learn to be profitable.
3. He is honest and has integrity from talking w/ him and he makes you feel good about trading.

If I were new at trading, this is something I would jump on. I am trying to get a friend to take a closer look.

Hi Bluemele
Given that you had doubts about how he presented his pnl on the DOM and that he didnt seem to follow his own espoused signals how have you decided that he is honest and has integrity? This thread is being very generous towards this enterprise and I am trying separate out his ability to impress people with his ability to trade and coach.

thks

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  #92 (permalink)
Santa Maria
 
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bluemele View Post
I have been in the room the last couple of days.

He had a very bad day Thursday and didn't hide the fact that he lost a substantial amount. I had stopped watching, but somehow I came back and voila his DOM was slightly profitable? ...

I was working that day and unable to watch, but I was listening. He mentioned that when trying to recover on a day like that he'll go into a mode of only taking the highest probability setups and taking smaller targets, he called it 'nibbling' his way back.

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  #93 (permalink)
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bluemele View Post
I have been in the room the last couple of days.

He had a very bad day Thursday and didn't hide the fact that he lost a substantial amount. I had stopped watching, but somehow I came back and voila his DOM was slightly profitable? Now, I could take my DOM offline and add a bunch of quantity and get myself back to profit as well, so I don't know what he did to do that and honestly don't trust anything I can't see. (My issues I know...)

He was up substantially on Friday already prior to the time shown on the website to enter the room, but I watched for a few hours and he made about 350.00 more himself.

He seems not to follow too many of his own signals and is selective. He trades for a 'brick' most times where the renko brick is typically 4.

I think he could and is a profitable trader, although I don't know when/if he trades live compared to SIM.

Here is my take:

1. Roger is about the sweetest guy you will see in this business.
2. If you were part of his program then you could learn to be profitable.
3. He is honest and has integrity from talking w/ him and he makes you feel good about trading.

If I were new at trading, this is something I would jump on. I am trying to get a friend to take a closer look.

My experience on the free trial a few years ago, is that he would occasionally show his PnL some days, not surprisingly only on positive days, but I never knew how that PnL came about, what trades were taken, what trade management was used, or even if the same trading methodology was used to generate that PnL. I did not like that. I want to see every trade, every mouse click, every entry, every stop movement, every target, every stop out.

Is that 'nibble' method, you mention, an official tactic of his methodology? Does he teach his students to nibble? That was not evident from your post. I would be pissed as a student trading a method I bought and having a huge losing day, and at the end of the day my mentor tells me he traded his way back to profit with a tactic that he did not officially teach me? That's why I want to know every time you click the mouse. Unless a vendor is totally transparent with me, and trades the system he is selling in front of me, It will not be easy getting any money from me.

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  #94 (permalink)
Victoria, TX
 
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Just a quick update that I have my primary coder pulling some of my indicators out of DivPro and I'll be posting them as a single NT7 zip file soon in the futures.io (formerly BMT) Elite section. I'll start the new thread in a few days also.

To clarify a couple of posts, the technique I call "nibbling" is nothing more than tightening my targets down to a scalping level and sticking with trades that offer a high success rate....usually 5 to 10 ticks in 6E, CL, 6J, GC, etc. I teach it to all of my students even though it's hard to get a trend trader to scalp sometimes.

DivPro is a coded "entry potential awareness" program and we stress daily that we do not recommend trying to take every trade it suggests. As taught in the course training, some trades are vastly superior to others. Some trade entries that might be ok in one market dynamic might be weak in another and only training and mentorship can prepare a trader to know the difference. Much of this can be explained in an online webinar "workshop". Until our code can incorporate the ability to actually "think", there will always be some trades you should not take...and we're a long ways from reaching that point!

Everything done by the moderators is taught to all students. When I am moderating, 100% of my trades are taken and managed in full view of all attendees. A mentor might be sweet as sugared honey but you have to trust that guy or else you will not trust what he teaches and you won't follow his rules. If you trade without rules you're sunk from the get-go.

Finally, my offer of help to futures.io (formerly BMT) traders isn't quite a win-win deal as someone suggested. I'm sticking my neck out here because I believe in what I do and that I have something of value to offer. But I can't accept any payment from group members as that would violate my agreement with Big Mike and the futures.io (formerly BMT) community (please read my previous posts). That would also preclude me from accepting students from this group into Felton Trading. No ulterior motive, no win-win (financially) on my part.

So the only thing I stand to gain is the satisfaction that I might have helped some of you who requested it and maybe earn some degree of respect as a fellow trader in the process. Fair enough for me.

Thanks everyone for the great posts,

Roger

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  #95 (permalink)
Honolulu, Hawaii
 
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Linds View Post
Hi Bluemele
Given that you had doubts about how he presented his pnl on the DOM and that he didnt seem to follow his own espoused signals how have you decided that he is honest and has integrity? This thread is being very generous towards this enterprise and I am trying separate out his ability to impress people with his ability to trade and coach.

thks


monpere View Post
My experience on the free trial a few years ago, is that he would occasionally show his PnL some days, not surprisingly only on positive days, but I never knew how that PnL came about, what trades were taken, what trade management was used, or even if the same trading methodology was used to generate that PnL. I did not like that. I want to see every trade, every mouse click, every entry, every stop movement, every target, every stop out.

Is that 'nibble' method, you mention, an official tactic of his methodology? Does he teach his students to nibble? That was not evident from your post. I would be pissed as a student trading a method I bought and having a huge losing day, and at the end of the day my mentor tells me he traded his way back to profit with a tactic that he did not officially teach me? That's why I want to know every time you click the mouse. Unless a vendor is totally transparent with me, and trades the system he is selling in front of me, It will not be easy getting any money from me.

Ok, here is what I think, but just my opinion:

1. Chat room is good and builds enough confidence. I think most people would feel very good about the trading.

2. Not all trades are shown or focus on the setups. This could be due to boredom of it over and over again or some other reason, but I don't believe it to be a bait-n-switch reason.

3. I believe most of his extended teaching courses cover more of the setups. I personally do not believe in purely mechanical trading.

Do I believe he could be a profitable trader? Yes.

Do I believe he could teach others to trade? Yes.

Do I believe he is an honest person who cares about the outcome of his students success? Yes.

Do I believe that if the price is right that you could earn your dollars back? Yes

Are most of his students complete newbies? My guess is YES.

Is Monpere probably a better trader than most of his students and would not get much out of it? Yes.

Do I believe anyone who has their own system and some success to switch to this system? No.


Sign up for the free 5 day trial and go from there. He does talk a lot so I have to turn it off a bit, but so does my Mother so I guess I am used to it. haha... Kind of like a Radio personality while day trading.

I would like to see him be more clear on setups and why each one, but he does it on enough of them to feel good about it. I think the day he was down was an unusual day.

I believe this is a rare mix of a person who truly does enjoy helping people and who has a chat room for $$$. I would like to see him trade live and listen for any trembles in his voice. haha... I know mine used to when I would go live after a long time off. The joy of wanting to be 'right'.

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  #96 (permalink)
Flagstaff AZ/USA
 
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Just noticed this in Ninja Events for the week... Felton Trading, Wednesday, January 12 at 4:15 PM EST

Pls. contact NT for the sign-up link if you want to attend as I don't see how to do it from their email notification. I have no affiliation them, never heard of them til this thread...

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  #97 (permalink)
toronto
 
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please remember, roger trades in sim mode and he will tell you that. He is a trading teacher and not a live trader. That means he makes his money from selling software.

I have looked at the room a couple of years ago and was not impressed when I found they are trading with play money.

There were trades called out that could not have been filled as price did not trade through the entry.

Dan

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  #98 (permalink)
Northern California
 
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dannyss35 View Post
please remember, roger trades in sim mode and he will tell you that. He is a trading teacher and not a live trader. That means he makes his money from selling software.

I have looked at the room a couple of years ago and was not impressed when I found they are trading with play money.

There were trades called out that could not have been filled as price did not trade through the entry.

Dan

Hi Dan,

What a difference a few YEARS makes.......one thing is still the same.....the trades are taken in sim mode......however, they are taken right before your very eyes on Ninja Chart Trader.......you can see exactly what is happening.

As far as the sim thing goes.......is there some sort of law about trading educators not being live? Unless they are licensed CTA? If this is correct then I imagine most "trading educators" are in sim mode. Perhpas someone can enlighten me.

I went to his room a couple of times and saw orders placed and targets filled in real time.......personally I don't care if it's sim or not. It was a good trading demonstration.

Jeff

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  #99 (permalink)
Fullerton, CA
 
 
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Jeff, I investigated this some time ago and learned there are no regulations that prevent educators from trading with real money instead of SIM. The reason they don't trade with cash should be obvious, however.

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  #100 (permalink)
Victoria, TX
 
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Just so everyone understands, even though I show trades I take in real time and students mimicing my trades along with me can easily get my identical fills and targets when trading their real account, it's all meaningless since I trade in sim....right?

Seriously, I teach all of my students to never trade their live account while being distracted...and nothing is more distracting than moderating a live (scalping) trading room while trying to trade. Do I violate my own cardinal rule just to satisfy a group of traders that just want to watch me showboat? Not a good way to set an example. From watching me take and manage a hundred or more trades in the free week trial, no one has ever questioned my ability to trade live.

Trading in sim alone is easy and NinjaTrader has one of the most realistic simulators on the planet...but trading in sim with a group of international students and friends watching my every move and dependent on my trade choices for their success carries as much stress level as anything you can think of. Trading psychology is something I mastered a long time ago...and that's really all you are talking about. Unfortunately, the mental side of trading is very hard to "teach" and it's not transferrable just from watching someone trade live. Since anyone can get my precise fills and my targets almost always leave a lot on the table, I see no statistically significant difference between live vs. sim for teaching purposes. Anyone thinking live trading trumps everything else might want to rethink their priorities. But, as someone said earlier, what I do isn't for everyone.

I'll be starting a new thread in the Elite area of futures.io (formerly BMT) and I'll be formally announcing that all futures.io (formerly BMT) Elite members will have unlimited complimentary access to our Live market Trading Room daily. We hope you can take advantage of this opportunity as much as possible and that you benefit greatly from the time you spend with us!

May you always hear the Ninja Gal say, "target filled!",

Roger

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