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Has anyone ever heard of Felton Trading? (www.feltontrading.com)


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Has anyone ever heard of Felton Trading? (www.feltontrading.com)

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  #301 (permalink)
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Ninjatrader Partner Event webinar Wednesday 8/1/2012

Felton Trading 4:15 PM EDT learn more | attend | reminder
Roger Felton - Nix Market Noise without Filters

NinjaTrader Partner Spotlight Presents Felton Trading

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  #302 (permalink)
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Guys,

I see there is something akin to a war going on, on this thread so it is with great hesitation and respect to ALL partys involved I humbly ask this:

Today I was sent a replay of Rogers new indicator system and I am someone who is just about fed up with software vendors. I didnt like Feltons system before, not because I thought he was dishonest but I dont like the nerve wracking job(and it IS a job!) of scalping in and out all day for 5 ticks at a time. In the end, even if I win, the brokerage firm with commissions AND the mm's with the spread are going to be sucking me dry to the point where they get at least 1/2 my profits per year, maybe per month! So I moved on, thinking Roger was an intelligent trader but I see why he sells it. Its too much work to do day in and day out. Year in and year out you'd need tranquilizers every day at 4pm market close. But now.....

on this new webinar he showed, he has indicators that put renko bars into dense thin almost channel size lines that are either red or green so much of the guess work is gone and I looked at the times on bottom of these live charts and many trades lasted an hour or more. Now thats my kind of day trading. I must tell you that from what Ive observed in over 15 years of trading rooms is that anyone who is trading for less than6 five min bars or 15 two min bars is playing for nickels and dimes. So anyway, this looks fabulous on paper, but as always, that means theres a hole in it somewhere, right? Yes, Roger did sound his usual salesy self. I picture him as a used car salesman with a stetson on his head in Dallas Texas somewhere. Ha! But, guys, I gotta tell you...Ive seen it all from neural network software to the most sophisticated fib clustering charts and Ive never seen anything unique in quite this way. No I dont believe it is worth the $4500 he asks for it. (Plus a monthly fee to use the software thrown in in the last 60 seconds...hmmmmm..... yet, one of you who is with Roger or was and can be unbiased, should check it out and tell us what you think. Me, Im not buying it! But, the idiot that I am, the inner child who still wont grow up inside me, still believes in magic. I guess I just love "sexy" looking charts.DISCAIMER: BUYER BEWARE. PERIOD!

I hear he will give anyone a week free trial in the room which I think runs from 8-12 est. I was hoping someone would comment before monday so I dont waste my time, or....miracle upon miracle...they say its pretty good. Now lets act civil here guys. I dont want Mike getting upset and I dont want Roger insulted because I asked a question. Please go along with that. As another poster said...."sometimes, silence says it all."

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  #303 (permalink)
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Roger trialed/bought RJay's bar types and then had his own programmer go to work on his own versions. If Roger is charging too much you should check out RJay, he is the original Renko tweaking king whom everyone else copied (and I could list a lot of the copiers here, would be quite lengthy).

Dan

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  #304 (permalink)
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eDanny View Post
Roger trialed/bought RJay's bar types and then had his own programmer go to work on his own versions. If Roger is charging too much you should check out RJay, he is the original Renko tweaking king whom everyone else copied (and I could list a lot of the copiers here, would be quite lengthy).

Dan

Hi Dan,

If innovative trading sol. is the same guy you are talking about, I dont think they are the same thing. I think rogers are smoother as they dont jump back and forth from red to green so much. maybe he got the idea from this guy but he had to pay someone to really improve it, or maybe he just smoothed it out until it became so late its now useless. thats what im trying to find out. Below is a piece of one of his new charts. This might pique some of you fellas curiosity. There are also indicators I never saw before on the bottom, but I dont kn ow if Roger would want me to show the whole chart. I dont want to get anyone upset but this is the meat of what was shown in the live webinar. Is this the same thing you refer to,dan?



C:\Users\Marc\Pictures\charts\2012-09-14_2037.png

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  #305 (permalink)
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eDanny View Post
Roger trialed/bought RJay's bar types and then had his own programmer go to work on his own versions. If Roger is charging too much you should check out RJay, he is the original Renko tweaking king whom everyone else copied (and I could list a lot of the copiers here, would be quite lengthy).

Dan

truth will be truth, anywhere, anytime and under any circumstances....

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  #306 (permalink)
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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Daytrader50 View Post
Hi Dan,

If innovative trading sol. is the same guy you are talking about, I dont think they are the same thing. I think rogers are smoother as they dont jump back and forth from red to green so much. maybe he got the idea from this guy but he had to pay someone to really improve it, or maybe he just smoothed it out until it became so late its now useless. thats what im trying to find out. Below is a piece of one of his new charts. This might pique some of you fellas curiosity. There are also indicators I never saw before on the bottom, but I dont kn ow if Roger would want me to show the whole chart. I dont want to get anyone upset but this is the meat of what was shown in the live webinar. Is this the same thing you refer to,dan?



C:\Users\Marc\Pictures\charts\2012-09-14_2037.png

linkage not working.

maybe you can use what bm suggested by downloading free jing from techsmith for posting links and such?

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  #307 (permalink)
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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Daytrader50 View Post
Guys,

I see there is something akin to a war going on, on this thread so it is with great hesitation and respect to ALL partys involved I humbly ask this:

Today I was sent a replay of Rogers new indicator system and I am someone who is just about fed up with software vendors. I didnt like Feltons system before, not because I thought he was dishonest but I dont like the nerve wracking job(and it IS a job!) of scalping in and out all day for 5 ticks at a time. In the end, even if I win, the brokerage firm with commissions AND the mm's with the spread are going to be sucking me dry to the point where they get at least 1/2 my profits per year, maybe per month! So I moved on, thinking Roger was an intelligent trader but I see why he sells it. Its too much work to do day in and day out. Year in and year out you'd need tranquilizers every day at 4pm market close. But now.....

on this new webinar he showed, he has indicators that put renko bars into dense thin almost channel size lines that are either red or green so much of the guess work is gone and I looked at the times on bottom of these live charts and many trades lasted an hour or more. Now thats my kind of day trading. I must tell you that from what Ive observed in over 15 years of trading rooms is that anyone who is trading for less than6 five min bars or 15 two min bars is playing for nickels and dimes. So anyway, this looks fabulous on paper, but as always, that means theres a hole in it somewhere, right? Yes, Roger did sound his usual salesy self. I picture him as a used car salesman with a stetson on his head in Dallas Texas somewhere. Ha! But, guys, I gotta tell you...Ive seen it all from neural network software to the most sophisticated fib clustering charts and Ive never seen anything unique in quite this way. No I dont believe it is worth the $4500 he asks for it. (Plus a monthly fee to use the software thrown in in the last 60 seconds...hmmmmm..... yet, one of you who is with Roger or was and can be unbiased, should check it out and tell us what you think. Me, Im not buying it! But, the idiot that I am, the inner child who still wont grow up inside me, still believes in magic. I guess I just love "sexy" looking charts.DISCAIMER: BUYER BEWARE. PERIOD!

I hear he will give anyone a week free trial in the room which I think runs from 8-12 est. I was hoping someone would comment before monday so I dont waste my time, or....miracle upon miracle...they say its pretty good. Now lets act civil here guys. I dont want Mike getting upset and I dont want Roger insulted because I asked a question. Please go along with that. As another poster said...."sometimes, silence says it all."

you are a fair at heart trader.

roger has an expensive system as you smartly observed.

inasmuch as the system goes, the ones that i looked at some three months ago, and as he demonstrated live but without the benefit of trading his own live account then, it left many questions unanswered.

many traders just wonder in amazement, why if a system is profitable then, why not just trade live with own live trading acct.... to own paid chatroom members to quiet those jealous critics....? there are at least a handful of chatrooms whose proprietors trade live with own acct to prove to their paid members that their monthly fees are well worth it.

yes, i did ask roger a few times, and he seemed to have his own personal reasons which i also respect just as much as big mike's and every trader's here as well. if he is trading his own live acct now, i surely would like to visit him again.

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  #308 (permalink)
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nakachalet View Post
you are a fair at heart trader.

why if a system is profitable then, why not just trade live ..

Here is almost his verbatim answer to my question during his last NT webinar:

"No professional trader trades live while moderating a room." And as for the 6 figure per year performance summary for trading 2 contracts, it is the calls they made not traded.

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  #309 (permalink)
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aligator View Post
Here is almost his verbatim answer to my question during his last NT webinar:

"No professional trader trades live while moderating a room." And as for the 6 figure per year performance summary for trading 2 contracts, it is the calls they made not traded.

"No professional trader trades live while moderating a room."

he is absolutely and categorically incorrect....

larry, jake, john, bill, hubert <not necessarily in their order of importance or imminence> immediately came to mind, among several other 'for profit' gurus....;

particularly, larry; even though larry lost his 6 figure acct, like many of us did in lesser degree, at pfg.... he immediately went on live in his trading room the next day with other brokers....

they are all trading live with their own trading acct and moderating, teaching and coaching in the same breath as well.... in front of their own paid members who paid several hundred usd a month. but then there is also room owner who charges in excess of 100 usd per day, only for days where profit exceed 100 usd; trading 2 contracts each time.

yes, aligator, he also gave me the same response last year. he could have lots more followers, had he just gotten himself together and traded live on just a couple of contracts. i also tried to persuade him also.... but to no avail.

personally, the man got the tools to trade profitably, but to the tune of 1k a day or not, as often claimed, is yet to be tested in live market and live acct.... imho.

aligator, i humbly agree with you.... that making live calls and.... trading the calls are entirely two different animals altogether.

to be also fair to rf, i do not believe that he would intentionally cheat anyone like so many other vendors around and abound. in many ways, i truly wish him, bev, dr mike and others well; so he et al would one day, perhaps change his mind and trade his very own live acct among many elite traders around here and other camps.

cheers and have a safe and happy wkend everyone.

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  #310 (permalink)
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nakachalet View Post
"No professional trader trades live while moderating a room."

he is absolutely and categorically incorrect....

So far, I've seen 3 people do this.

Admittedly one is a retail trader but one is a prop trader and one used to be a floor trader.

It's a bit of a stretch to say it's not professional to trade live in front of people & that a true pro would use a SIM account.

Funny though.

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  #311 (permalink)
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I understand not wanting to trade live when you cannot fully concentrate on the trading. Can't ask a pitcher to teach you how to throw a curve ball, while he is in the middle of a game. I don't have a problem with a trading room trading sim. Sure, live is ideal, but the important thing is that the calls are identified and taken in real time in front of the members, not that hindsight stuff, "there was an entry right there, you would have made a gazillion dollars".

Roger is playing a dubious tactic, he is trolling around multiple forums looking for new customers under the guise of wanting to help traders. This seems to be back firing for him. On the other forum mentioned, he is challenging traders by offering some weird million dollar challenge, that's just plain weird for any legitimate vendor. He should use that million dollars to advertise on CNBC.

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  #312 (permalink)
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nakachalet View Post
"No professional trader trades live while moderating a room."

he is absolutely and categorically incorrect....

I would agree. I've been in a few rooms now and have seen how these hosts get caught in claiming they were trading live when it was actually sim. One room said they traded a live 20k account, but then based on past reports by ex-members they say that every year. OTOH, I've seen about three rooms where I'm convinced it was live. One of them was @cjbooth 's room which he did for about 4 months. The room was free and he was trading for himself using the best times to trade on the Euro futures in the early morning hours. Another is Al Brook's room. But he only reports trades after the fact if any. If a professional trader doesn't trade live in a room I'm more convinced they aren't professional to begin with, or have not daytraded live in a long time and are actually investing their revenue from clientele in a different way, or are not choosing to teach a trading method that actually works.

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  #313 (permalink)
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Cloudy View Post
I would agree. I've been in a few rooms now and have seen how these hosts get caught in claiming they were trading live when it was actually sim. One room said they traded a live 20k account, but then based on past reports by ex-members they say that every year. OTOH, I've seen about three rooms where I'm convinced it was live. One of them was @cjbooth 's room which he did for about 4 months. The room was free and he was trading for himself using the best times to trade on the Euro futures in the early morning hours. Another is Al Brook's room. But he only reports trades after the fact if any. If a professional trader doesn't trade live in a room I'm more convinced they aren't professional to begin with, or have not daytraded live in a long time and are actually investing their revenue from clientele in a different way, or are not choosing to teach a trading method that actually works.

I understand cjbooth stopped his trading room because he could not concentrate on his live trading, while running the room, moderating, teaching his method, and trading live at the same time. It was negatively affecting his performance, so he shut down the room so he could actually trade his method properly in order to make his living trading.

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  #314 (permalink)
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monpere View Post
I understand cjbooth stopped his trading room because he could not concentrate on his live trading, while running the room, moderating, teaching his method, and trading live at the same time. It was negatively affecting his performance, so he shut down the room so he could actually trade his method properly in order to make his living trading.


This actually happens more often than people realize because there are negative impacts on your trading at the beginning stages of running a chat room. There are also opportunity costs (especially if you're trading more than one account) which easily exceed any revenues generated. So for those who worked their butts off to get through the real $ meat grinder and decide to try their hand at training, the usual and perfectly understandable response is that they've worked way too hard to jeopardize what they've accomplished so they shut it down.

But like everything else in trading you have to pay your dues before you receive any benefits. And this is no exception because if you work through the initial adversity it will definitely improve your trading in ways I don't believe are possible any other way.

Btw, I am not a vendor - been there, done that, glad I did it once but can't imagine why I would ever do it again. Nor am I familiar with any of the ones mentioned here. Just sharing experiences from a past life for those who might be interested.

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  #315 (permalink)
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monpere View Post
I understand cjbooth stopped his trading room because he could not concentrate on his live trading, while running the room, moderating, teaching his method, and trading live at the same time. It was negatively affecting his performance, so he shut down the room so he could actually trade his method properly in order to make his living trading.

That's news to me. Unless you had heard from others close to him those things that I didn't as I didn't know him personally. I was a member of his room until the end.. Most of the time we were quiet and waiting while he found a trade. He actively wanted us to participate with questions at times or with something new he was trying out. After the first month he had mostly stopped going over the basics of his method and we knew basic questions would no longer be welcomed. I had assumed he was bothered by ongoings outside the room (maybe bothered by emails from individuals or vendors) or he just got tired of doing it when he decided to shut it down. He owed nothing to us as the room was free except we were required to subscribe to Kwik-pop.

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  #316 (permalink)
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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Cloudy View Post
That's news to me. Unless you had heard from others close to him those things that I didn't as I didn't know him personally. I was a member of his room until the end.. Most of the time we were quiet and waiting while he found a trade. He actively wanted us to participate with questions at times or with something new he was trying out. After the first month he had mostly stopped going over the basics of his method and we knew basic questions would no longer be welcomed. I had assumed he was bothered by ongoings outside the room (maybe bothered by emails from individuals or vendors) when he decided to shut it down. He owed nothing to us as the room was free except we were required to subscribe to Kwik-pop.

do u per chance have any pix of his trading screen for us to look at, pls?

anyone who was willing to offer a free trading room, is worth something to look back to,

to perhaps, find gems of wisdom that were missed then....

his name came across here several times in the past, that i was aware of.

wonder how his methodology compared with ft, particularly in terms of predictability and PROFITABILITY? anyone, pls?

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  #317 (permalink)
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Cloudy View Post
That's news to me. Unless you had heard from others close to him those things that I didn't as I didn't know him personally. I was a member of his room until the end.. Most of the time we were quiet and waiting while he found a trade. He actively wanted us to participate with questions at times or with something new he was trying out. After the first month he had mostly stopped going over the basics of his method and we knew basic questions would no longer be welcomed. I had assumed he was bothered by ongoings outside the room (maybe bothered by emails from individuals or vendors) or he just got tired of doing it when he decided to shut it down. He owed nothing to us as the room was free except we were required to subscribe to Kwik-pop.

I was checking out the room for a couple of weeks near the end of 2011. I observed increasingly how he got distracted, frustrated, when he missed, lost, or mismanaged trades. He increasingly asked for 'less chatter' in the room, and sent several emails regarding that. Then on Dec 14, he sent the following email saying that he would only open the room for an hour near the end of the European session, only to review the trades he took that day in private. I am including an excerp of the email below, where he clearly expressed the room was impacting his trading. That is when I stopped going to the room because I didn't want to just see someone review trades after they had been taken. I'm not sure what happened after I left, but I think a few weeks later, the room was closed permanently.


Quoting 
...
Beginning tomorrow Thursday I will open the room at 10 am cst for about an hour or 2 to discuss the mornings trade and answer your questions regarding any setups

this meeting will be recorded so if you cant attend based off of where you live and your time zone I will email you the recorded link

reply to this email with the word “room” or “video” so I will know who will attend the room and who to email the video recording to

the reason I am doing this is simply with the way the market action is lately trading is requiring my up most attention and focus something the trading room in general is affecting
...


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  #318 (permalink)
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Daytrader50 View Post
on this new webinar he showed, he has indicators that put renko bars into dense thin almost channel size lines that are either red or green so much of the guess work is gone

Wanting to take the guesswork out is the #1 reason why vendors selling expensive nothingness are still in business. Trading is by definition guesswork, even if it's statistically rooted guesswork. Seeking certainty is not the way to doing well in trading, particularly when the certainty comes from someone else. At least vendors keep fresh money coming into the market which will only be transferred in a short amount of time, I suppose that is a good service to the community.

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  #319 (permalink)
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Maybe you saw me there as my id was Cloudy. There could have been a couple of people that bugged CJ, but most of the time we were quiet and waited for hours most sessions. I remember that email and thought he was upset but not sure if it was the room or bad trading conditions. Following CJ's room since August, it would have been seen conditions got worse for the method. We concluded Mid December to the holidays like most markets was very low volume and slow. I remember that email. That was the time when CJ took a break off the room. We came back in Jan. The last one about the room on the 10th of January.

"Traders,

Let me clear that I am not stopping my trading room, on the other hand my method nor anyone else's is going to produce good trades in this crappy volume and price ranges.

With the way I take trying to help you guys personally it is to stressful right now in these conditions to try to find myself a trade much less moderate a trading room and help you find one

I ask you to stay in touch as will I with you through emails until this market gets it’s head out it’s pants and starts reacting to something

Charles
"
I'm not sure if it was because of the room and/or the "crappy" conditions he stopped it. It was perfectly fine when we were making good money until mid-November. We were happy about it and CJ's moral and the room's was good and we regularly attended those long hours with his "coffee" breaks. And he tested us and asked us to comment on his ideas, or we waited all the morning hours for good setups. But I can understand if he wanted to withdraw back to his own trading since December when things changed.

His last email on the 1st of Feb was saying he was on skype if we wanted to stay involved. I chose not to continue. I very much appreciated his help. His room was the first live daytrading experience I saw that worked for that time. And gave me hope daytrading could realistically actually work if one found his way.

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  #320 (permalink)
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monpere View Post
I was checking out the room for a couple of weeks near the end of 2011. I observed increasingly how he got distracted, frustrated, when he missed, lost, or mismanaged trades.

I was in his room for a while too, earlier than that. You could always tell by his breathing when he was in a trade.

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  #321 (permalink)
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  #322 (permalink)
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Mike

I think the discussion serves to justify or not, Felton's view on why he does not trade live while moderating his trading room.

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  #323 (permalink)
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monpere View Post
I think the discussion serves to justify or not, Felton's view on why he does not trade live while moderating his trading room.

I agree with monpere. In trying to assess the merits of any product it is immediately relevant whether or not the sales agent uses the product or not. Would you buy a car from a used salesman that he refuses to ride in and insists you both take a ride in his gee whiz car simulator instead? If he won't run it on the road, should you?

I looked at this system last year and lost all interest in Felton when I heard him arguing that sim trading was an adequate test of the tools he is peddling. Anyone who thinks sim trading is the same as real trading is either smoking something or selling recycled snake oil and does not have your best interest at heart.

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  #324 (permalink)
Bala, PA, USA
 
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I agree with monpere. In trying to assess the merits of any product it is immediately relevant whether or not the sales agent uses the product or not. Would you buy a car from a used salesman that he refuses to ride in and insists you both take a ride in his gee whiz car simulator instead? If he won't run it on the road, should you?

I looked at this system last year and lost all interest in Felton when I heard him arguing that sim trading was an adequate test of the tools he is peddling. Anyone who thinks sim trading is the same as real trading is either smoking something or selling recycled snake oil and does not have your best interest at heart.

Bottom line is, whether or not a vendor trades live or sim, has no bearing on how YOU will perform using that method. So, to me it doesn't matter. The vendor doesn't have to trade the method at all for that matter, he doesn't even have to be a trader! For me, he just has to have a viable idea, I will run with that idea and determine if that idea will work for me or not.

Never believe anything any vendor ever says, no matter how awesome it seems. You take that concept home, kick the tires and put it through the paces. That is what will determine if that method will work for you. The vendor trading live or sim is immaterial. He could trade that discretionary method live and make a gazillion dollars in front of your eyes, so you buy that method, and you lose your pants in 3 days. Beyond that method itself, your own discretionary input and trading approach will determine your success with it, not if the vendor trades it live or sim.

I am mainly a divergence trader. I am not a Felton supporter, nor opponent, but I initially learned divergence from Roger Felton years ago, yet I could not become profitable with divergence until I grew as a trader, studied other people's approaches to divergence, and developed my own trading style using divergence. I now trade divergence quite differently then Roger. Although I was never profitable trading his method exactly how he taught it, I did learn quite a bit from his ideas, and his approach and views on the subject, just as I learned other aspects of divergence from a couple of other vendors as well.

I use to believe that a vendor should trade live also, but as I grew as a trader, I've come to realize that a vendor's trading or lack thereof, will not guarantee my success. My own handling of the method is the only thing that determines how that method will perform for me.

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  #325 (permalink)
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monpere View Post
Bottom line is, whether or not a vendor trades live or sim, has no bearing on how YOU will perform using that method.

.
.
.

The vendor trading live or sim is immaterial.

Except when some vendors list his "track record" like a spreadsheet, with all the money you could have made trading his system, and none of those trades were taken live - or in some cases, some vendors are known for not being clear about what they call as trades in the room, and the winners show up in the "track record" report on the website but losers are no where to be found.

@monpere, would you stop trading your system live, and instead only trade it sim and run a room selling those signals?

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  #326 (permalink)
Bala, PA, USA
 
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Except when some vendors list his "track record" like a spreadsheet, with all the money you could have made trading his system, and none of those trades were taken live - or in some cases, some vendors are known for not being clear about what they call as trades in the room, and the winners show up in the "track record" report on the website but losers are no where to be found.

@monpere, would you stop trading your system live, and instead only trade it sim and run a room selling those signals?

Mike

Agreed, that actually was one of my issues with Felton. The track record would show many trades that were never even mentioned in the trade room. It should not be touted as a track record, it is just a list of signals as defined by the method. Many of those trades he was not able to identify in real time while watching the market. Some of those signals might have been impossible to enter due to various market conditions.

Overall, I think people should approach trade rooms with the intent of learning something that will grow them as a trader. If you are looking for the method that will make you profitable the moment you open the box, you will be often disappointed.

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  #327 (permalink)
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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<in reference to felton himself and his trading, what he would and would not do.... and what is he up to now; really do not mean much at presence, as he is not able to say anything any more in response to what we say here and now.... roger has been kicked out of this trading community for good. however roger himself, i believe, is still interested in this thread about his feltonian livelihood>

furthermore, am also trying to find out whose expressed opinion here really at the final analyses is more reliable and profitable as well, as far as trading is concerned?

sometimes, by reading written expression from some traders whom you thought you knew at bmt, you kinda believed that they were reasonable traders. at other time, like today, i wondered if i myself really have a decent brain left to follow what went on around here.... L O L

just what do these statements mean in relation to helping traders toward adequately learning to trade, trading for profit or trading toward greater profitability?

1....In trying to assess the merits of any product it is immediately relevant whether or not the sales agent uses the product or not. Would you buy a car from a used salesman that he refuses to ride in....

probably vendors just want to make a buck or two from those overly anxious wannabes....

2....Anyone who thinks sim trading is the same as real trading is either smoking something or selling recycled snake oil and does not have your best interest at heart....

vendors probably just want you to believe that whatever they are showing you, would enrich you as well, at the end....

3....The vendor doesn't have to trade the method at all for that matter, he doesn't even have to be a trader!....

now, here is a seemingly revolutionary idea on trading.... wonder if the trader meant what it said....
that one can teach me to snow ski, if and when the purported instructors do not ski himself or herself....

4....would you stop trading your system live, and instead only trade it sim and run a room selling those signals?....

in more likelihood than not, a profitable trader would just keep on trading until his setups disrupt his earnings so much so that the trader needs to do something else, other than trading live and for profit....

then he/she could use his former profitable setups and experiences to convince other wannabes to part with their hard earned euro....
----------------------------
what happens here, happens across the board. there are always those, some even with good intention and all; trying their darnest in the name of HELPING, ASSISTING, EDUCATING, ENHANCING AND ENRICHING..... in so many different ways--to get money or something equivalence from you....

if you are just starting out in learning to trade, you probably won't know nor notice the differences among bmt and other trading forums on the net;
at bmt here, you are pretty safe with your money, there are much fewer vendors on the take...
besides what you need to become reasonably successful and consistent in trading is practically free here.

most enchanting is.... most abled coders, programmers et al would construct and make your dream-indicators or likewise.... come true;
but whether or not, they are tradeable and/or profitable are different matter altogether.

THIS IS JUST MY PERSONAL OBS, k? and--no, i have no biz association with big mike nor any of his biz, just wanna make it abundantly transparent. just a one man opinion which could differ significantly from your own thoughts, belief systems and trading philosophy and practice. wishing everyone profitable and happy trading. cheers.

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  #328 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
...
@monpere, would you stop trading your system live, and instead only trade it sim and run a room selling those signals?

Mike

In my opinion, a much better scenario would be for him to manage multiple accounts and take a cut on each profitable trade. This way people would not need to learn how to trade and could still keep their main occupation or be at the beach all day long while monpere would be busy killing the markets for him and everyone else.

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  #329 (permalink)
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Hey Guys!

Cloudy, you'll probably remember me because I was sending you my terminal results. Nakachalet, I was the guy that was always talking about double-tops and double-bottoms. I disappeared from trading for a few months because I have been remodling an apartment. I'm still not done yet! I stepped away because I couldn't be at the screen in the morning, and longer-term trades don't seem to work with my personality/risk tolerance.

Now, today was the first day in a LONG while (3-4 months) that I sat at the screen. It's tough!! It's hard to stay focused and interested. My opinion from watching the trials is that Roger is a decent guy with a decent system. The problem, I think for Roger is that I can't find anyone on any serious message boards who have paid for his course that come here to show terminal real trading software results. (Most of us just "tried out" his limited services to non-members). He offered to train someone in another forum for free; I would take him up on an offer like that!! At the end of the "training", even if the styles don't match, then you have a live room that you can go to to hear people doing the same thing as you're doing. It would help to stay focused I think. That would definitely be in Roger's best business interest: he trains someone who is the member of a "community" to honestly tell/show other people how they are doing. Well, if he wants to do that, he knows where I'm at.

Yeah, back when members of futures.io (formerly BMT) could see the trials, I also got wrapped up in the live -vs- demo trading. But being away has given me some time to think about it: it's impossible to anwer questions, and risk live money. The only thing lacking, IMO, is the NinjaTrader results INSTEAD OF speadsheets, or show both. The trading software-generated results (terminal results) are hard to fake. Demo or Live. The only time I have seen where this becomes an issue is when profit targets are VERY SMALL (3-4 ticks). Demo trading is an immediate fill whereas live trading usually has to contend with a higher spreads. I still believe that the basis of his system is sound because I have been using something similar for a while now.

In the meantime, if there're any real paid-up customers who are using his software, I'm sure people are still curious to hear the results. Good or bad. I hope good though because I NEVER see anything positive about vendors. I like to think there are more honest people out there, and not just tricksters.

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  #330 (permalink)
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trendisyourfriend View Post
In my opinion, a much better scenario would be for him to manage multiple accounts and take a cut on each profitable trade. This way people would not need to learn how to trade and could still keep their main occupation or be at the beach all day long while monpere would be busy killing the markets for him and everyone else.

Agreed. But nowadays there are things like ZuluTrade and other trade copiers that weren't around 20 years ago. They say that at an older age, it's harder to get used to new things. BTW - I read that there are a few traders at Zulu that have so much money following them, they easily make over $1 million a month. (Personally, I would never let someone else trade my money out-of existence!, no matter what their past performance shows.)

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  #331 (permalink)
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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acbrasil View Post
Hey Guys!

Cloudy, you'll probably remember me because I was sending you my terminal results. Nakachalet, I was the guy that was always talking about double-tops and double-bottoms. I disappeared from trading for a few months because I have been remodling an apartment. I'm still not done yet! I stepped away because I couldn't be at the screen in the morning, and longer-term trades don't seem to work with my personality/risk tolerance.

Now, today was the first day in a LONG while (3-4 months) that I sat at the screen. It's tough!! It's hard to stay focused and interested. My opinion from watching the trials is that Roger is a decent guy with a decent system. The problem, I think for Roger is that I can't find anyone on any serious message boards who have paid for his course that come here to show terminal real trading software results. (Most of us just "tried out" his limited services to non-members). He offered to train someone in another forum for free; I would take him up on an offer like that!! At the end of the "training", even if the styles don't match, then you have a live room that you can go to to hear people doing the same thing as you're doing. It would help to stay focused I think. That would definitely be in Roger's best business interest: he trains someone who is the member of a "community" to honestly tell/show other people how they are doing. Well, if he wants to do that, he knows where I'm at.

Yeah, back when members of futures.io (formerly BMT) could see the trials, I also got wrapped up in the live -vs- demo trading. But being away has given me some time to think about it: it's impossible to anwer questions, and risk live money. The only thing lacking, IMO, is the NinjaTrader results INSTEAD OF speadsheets, or show both. The trading software-generated results (terminal results) are hard to fake. Demo or Live. The only time I have seen where this becomes an issue is when profit targets are VERY SMALL (3-4 ticks). Demo trading is an immediate fill whereas live trading usually has to contend with a higher spreads. I still believe that the basis of his system is sound because I have been using something similar for a while now.

In the meantime, if there're any real paid-up customers who are using his software, I'm sure people are still curious to hear the results. Good or bad. I hope good though because I NEVER see anything positive about vendors. I like to think there are more honest people out there, and not just tricksters.

welcome back with renewed energy and aspiration and renewed determination to make it profitable...., i hope....

IN REF TO ZULU and other successful traders.... i can only attest to everyone that.... those who are making it and making it consistently.... are really not likely to make the scene anywhere public....

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  #332 (permalink)
somewhere, brazil
 
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nakachalet View Post
welcome back with renewed energy and aspiration and renewed determination to make it profitable...., i hope....

IN REF TO ZULU and other successful traders.... i can only attest to everyone that.... those who are making it and making it consistently.... are really not likely to make the scene anywhere public....

Thanks. I just ended up back here because watching the candles paint seems a little boring now. (and I'm procrastiating on the remodling job!). I almost feel like a complete noobie again, looking at the chart, seeing how easy it is to squeeze out a few pips/ticks very easily on low timeframes. We'll see how things go!

It's interesting to see how Felton is still around. I would still love to see some testimonials/charts from clients.

I wouldn't trust anyone at Zulu. So many of those guys perform well, and then SMACK! They lose a lot of money out of nowhere. They are most likely using some sort of EA that goes haywire.

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  #333 (permalink)
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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if anyone is interested in roger's new stuff

he is presenting at ninjatrader forum today in a couple of minutes

currently, it is tuesday, october 2:35 pm

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  #334 (permalink)
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I tried Rogers method a while back and it seemed quite viable to me. I had his chart up for a while
with all the crazy colors and chaos going on. It was like waking up to a performance art concert each morning

I lasted about 1 week before I realized it was just too busy for my psyche.

I, for one, consider Roger a friend and he has always been informative and kind to me.


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  #335 (permalink)
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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tderrick View Post
I tried Rogers method a while back and it seemed quite viable to me. I had his chart up for a while
with all the crazy colors and chaos going on. It was like waking up to a performance art concert each morning

I lasted about 1 week before I realized it was just too busy for my psyche.

I, for one, consider Roger a friend and he has always been informative and kind to me.

@ tderrick

glad to know that there are other traders on board here who also consider feltonian viable.

from what happened a few hours ago; roger just did not focus enough on how traders could benefit from his tools of trade, instead he took attendees on tour of his arsenals.

i begged him to just, while he was on a live signal, to just actually enter and live trade, to show us just how potent his expensive tool could do....

well, just hope perhaps his next demo, he would do just that to prove his point and the potency of his tools.

i truly wish him well. even though there are several here who already threw him out for good.

from what i could tell, his tools are much more focused in a few respect, however just as he was trying to reach more general public, he became more diluted in his specificities at the same time.

i think, if he really wants to be on the fore front of trading education and as i humbly sggested many a time before, that he needs to go on live account, like jake, larry, bob, john and hubert et al who trade live on own acct in front of all their students, traders and members.

just a one man opi here.

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  #336 (permalink)
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Ive known roger for quite a while. Ive also sat in on his room enough days to make a informed judgement. The first week i viewed his room I was very disappointed in his results and presentation. More than half the days he came into the room with a profit of 600-700..He didnt show any of the trades but mentioned he had taken them pre market// Since he trades a sim account I was concerned how many sim accounts he might have open. I addressed the question in the open room and never received a answer... Roger 'the dodger' just kept babbling on and tried to change the subject.
Almost 3/4 of his presentation is about how well his magic wand worked earlier that day or week. By my count the first week he actually lost 200-300 counting commissions yet he tried to show he made a average of 750 each day--go figure. After he came into the room he would take a bunch of 5 tick scalps on CL and gold and claim his $1000 goal Im sure the questions has been repeated by others so now he admits to at least 2 sims accounts but no one really knows how many are open at any time.
Also each time i would log into the room some student would PM me asking if he could help answer any questions.. I asked since he claimed to do so well if he could send me a brokerage statement with all the info blanked out... Guess not . Didnt answer back. No real surprise i guess.
If anyone logs into the trial room they will notice there is usually between 17-19 students. its quite strange that I wrote the names down more than a few months ago and recently and almost every name is the same with only maybe 2 new names.for a system claiming to make so much$$ you would think there would be quite a few new students. i guess not. Now Roger is trying to pimp his new code for 300-400 month in addition to the training fee. Roger has been working as this same old routine for over 10 years.
When i brought up the question of slippage with CL and gold he would never address how off his sim figures would be trying to get 5 ticks...Also any time his target was briefly touched and went south he would claim victory.By now everyone should realize the reasons he doesnt trade live. He would get destroyed and couldnt fool all the novices with his multiple sim accounts.
Finally a search will show that this is the second attempt of Felton trading. His first attempt went belly up and he was dark a few years. Older versions of his automation that failed can be found. Research is your friend when it pertains to your $$.

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  #337 (permalink)
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I also have spend extended periods of weeks over different years in the Felton Trading Room. I must say I do like Roger. It is hard not to like him, but I must agree with Ironman. Many days he enters the room with his sim dome up 500-600 dollars and usually gives most or all of it back in his trading. He will then exit the room and turn it over to Clint who will trade. Roger will keep texting out trades {winners) that he took to bring his totals up to 1k for the day. I am not saying they are bogus trades, but unless I see them done there is no way you can count them in the track record let alone in sim. Clint seems more realistic , but his results are not as good and he takes trades without showing his charts. Traders buying his course can not expect to get those "results". It does look really good as does a lot of methods until traded live.
One of my questions to Roger was if you can pull money out of the market like that, why don't you trade LIVE after leaving the room?!! Why continue to trade in Sim? It would seem that would defeat his argument of not being able to moderate the room and trade at the same time! Right? His response was he was using that time to answer questions (selling) prospects on the system or training people. That tells me it is more lucrative to sell the system than to trade live. Not what I wanted to hear. It is all about the results they can post on the website, which they use to sell the system.
I have also witnessed him completely change his method, his charts and system 4 or 5 times in the last 3-4 years. He also used to have a auto trader called Sniper that self destructed.
If you get a lifetime membership with his course I would expect there would be a lot more traders in his room even if you have to pay for it. There is also ongoing fees just to use the new software. All in all a very expensive system to commit to and you will need the software for life!

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  #338 (permalink)
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When you say he starts the room with 6-700 dollars - are you still talking SIM?

He actually spends time on his own, before the room opens.. and SIM trades?

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  #339 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
When you say he starts the room with 6-700 dollars - are you still talking SIM?

He actually spends time on his own, before the room opens.. and SIM trades?

Yes, he often comes in with 600-700 in Sim dollars, other days enters the room flat. Always sim. Maybe he has 2 sim accounts and starts over if he lost pre room open. Ha

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  #340 (permalink)
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longboat View Post
Yes, he often comes in with 600-700 in Sim dollars, other days enters the room flat. Always sim. Maybe he has 2 sim accounts and starts over if he lost pre room open. Ha


There's a site called OrderFlowEdge - do exactly the same thing...

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  #341 (permalink)
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Welcome back acbrasil. I'm more into range and tick charts these days as can be seen in my journal. Thanks for the anecdotes about Felton trading longboat and ironman07. I've seen very much the same thing in another trading room that tried to get me hooked. I paid for a costly trading room month. I couldn't see how many other members there were. It always seem like the same 4 or 5 people. I suspect they are co-staff or affiliates or staff pretending to be members. Only one speaking host, but it seemed like he was talking to the same 4 or 5 people including me. Tried to get me into the "apprenticeship" which cost much more. And the indicators were all subscription tied. I found it annoying how easy it was to approximate their indicators with basic NT ones. And yes, they would pad the results after hours so many times. Many times doubling or tripling their contracts. The guy slipped it was sim one time. Of course it's all sim. Now I got an email the other day from that group that they are starting a "fund" and inviting folks to join. The fund would be the host and 3 other pals daytrading. What a coincidence in the number of staff. I guess this new "offer" could attract more "sales" than the trading room fee or $7.5k training "apprenticeship" program. Felton having more than one sim account. Makes sense with a multiple system/monitor setup. One could be swapped out if it's performing poorly. I don't buy it that one can't do it live and teach. I would do so if I was teaching and have the dom or chart trader on. Why miss out the opportunity to trade for your own at the moment if your method is so good? CJBooth did it with a live chart. One can just do it live and do a warning a minute beforehand. Then it would be up to the students to enter as close as possible. Unless it was the smallest time frame and one was trading like an HFT bot.

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  #342 (permalink)
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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Cloudy View Post
Welcome back acbrasil. I'm more into range and tick charts these days as can be seen in my journal. Thanks for the anecdotes about Felton trading longboat and ironman07. I've seen very much the same thing in another trading room that tried to get me hooked. I paid for a costly trading room month. I couldn't see how many other members there were. It always seem like the same 4 or 5 people. I suspect they are co-staff or affiliates or staff pretending to be members. Only one speaking host, but it seemed like he was talking to the same 4 or 5 people including me. Tried to get me into the "apprenticeship" which cost much more. And the indicators were all subscription tied. I found it annoying how easy it was to approximate their indicators with basic NT ones. And yes, they would pad the results after hours so many times. Many times doubling or tripling their contracts. The guy slipped it was sim one time. Of course it's all sim. Now I got an email the other day from that group that they are starting a "fund" and inviting folks to join. The fund would be the host and 3 other pals daytrading. What a coincidence in the number of staff. I guess this new "offer" could attract more "sales" than the trading room fee or $7.5k training "apprenticeship" program. Felton having more than one sim account. Makes sense with a multiple system/monitor setup. One could be swapped out if it's performing poorly. I don't buy it that one can't do it live and teach. I would do so if I was teaching and have the dom or chart trader on. Why miss out the opportunity to trade for your own at the moment if your method is so good? CJBooth did it with a live chart. One can just do it live and do a warning a minute beforehand. Then it would be up to the students to enter as close as possible. Unless it was the smallest time frame and one was trading like an HFT bot.

@Cloudy

it surely would benefit many traders here too, if you could be a little more specific about your costly personal experiences in ref to....

....I've seen very much the same thing in another trading room that tried to get me hooked. I paid for a costly trading room month. I couldn't see how many other members there were. It always seem like the same 4 or 5 people....

would you be able to share with us more on this, pls? only if you are willing and able to, K?

and i also agree with you that you can trade live and teach at the same time.... even though it might be distracting at times.... but that comes with the territory.... and i also seemed to recall that some big head in this forum did not see eye to eye with this concept to trade live and teach is probable.

but in terms of reality, i can guarantee from past fortunate personal experiences, that there are currently several trading gurus who are trading their personal acct and teaching to the fees paid traders/members, day in and day out; with consistent profitable results.... otherwise, no one would pay the membership fees from some 300 usd to 900 usd per month.

thx for sharing your personal experiences, cloudy, longboat, ironman07 and others.... much appreciated.

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nakachalet View Post
@Cloudy


..... otherwise, no one would pay the membership fees from some 300 usd to 900 usd per month.



Or they keep bringing in new people ... I've seen rooms where there are hard core supporters... you visit again a year later and it's all new people....

Pt Barnum said... there's a new fool born every day

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

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ThatManFromTexas View Post
Or they keep bringing in new people ... I've seen rooms where there are hard core supporters... you visit again a year later and it's all new people....

Pt Barnum said... there's a new fool born every day

I wonder what is better, seeing lots of hard core supporters still around or just new people? One would think the objective is to become self-sufficient or independent. I would be tempted to see hard core supporters still around as a red flag

"You shall know the Truth, and the Truth will make you free"

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DionysusToast View Post
When you say he starts the room with 6-700 dollars - are you still talking SIM?

He actually spends time on his own, before the room opens.. and SIM trades?

LOL...

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  #346 (permalink)
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nakachalet View Post
@Cloudy

it surely would benefit many traders here too, if you could be a little more specific about your costly personal experiences in ref to....

I'm not sure what specifics you mean besides naming the place as I've been very detailed. The "course" was $7500k, and there was a monthly fee over a $100 per month. I was using this example as like Felton they reported extra trades outside the room hours to pad their daily profit. I would say traders should be aware of padded results outside the room (especially on losing days which they never reported in their newsletter because of the padding after hours) not to mention catching them always in sim; that would be a good red flag indicator and would help other traders avoid that place automatically among others; that's the biggest thing that will help new traders avoid paying for these scams. Fortunately I quit after one month but the scammers emailed me for a while after trying to make me feel guilty and get me back probably to help with their daily lunch money. Fortunately, the place has been properly reviewed here in the vendor threads.


ThatManFromTexas View Post
Or they keep bringing in new people ... I've seen rooms where there are hard core supporters... you visit again a year later and it's all new people....

Pt Barnum said... there's a new fool born every day

What enables these scammers is that they think the endless supply of new traders is perpetuity of the actual quote "There's a sucker born every minute". Places like futures.io (formerly BMT) help aspiring traders wise up to this. Per that room, I was galled they thought I was a complete beginner fool even after I told them I frequented futures.io (formerly BMT). They were probably desperate because I was probably the only one foolish enough to stay with them past the trial days and tried to get another month fee out of me. Like Felton, they were introducing "new and improved" indicators by their "programmer" during my time there. And they are by far not the only rooms to do these shenanigans.

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  #347 (permalink)
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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did you really, really pay 7.500 usd plus 100+ usd....?

you surely didn't, did you?

just curious again to the tune of being appearing dumb and dumber....

what really actually attracted you to pay that amount, pls?

if it is too painful, then you do not need to go on, K?

thx again, cloudy.


Cloudy View Post
I'm not sure what specifics you mean besides naming the place as I've been very detailed. The "course" was $7500k, and there was a monthly fee over a $100 per month. I was using this example as like Felton they reported extra trades outside the room hours to pad their daily profit. I would say traders should be aware of padded results outside the room (especially on losing days which they never reported in their newsletter because of the padding after hours) not to mention catching them always in sim; that would be a good red flag indicator and would help other traders avoid that place automatically among others; that's the biggest thing that will help new traders avoid paying for these scams. Fortunately I quit after one month but the scammers emailed me for a while after trying to make me feel guilty and get me back probably to help with their daily lunch money. Forutunately, the place has been properly reviewed here in the vendor threads.



What enables these scammers is that they think the endless supply of new traders is perpetuity of the actual quote "There's a sucker born every minute". Places like futures.io (formerly BMT) help aspiring traders wise up to this. Per that room, I was galled they thought I was a complete beginner fool even after I told them I frequented futures.io (formerly BMT). They were probably desperate because I was probably the only one foolish enough to stay with them past the trial days and tried to get another month fee out of me. Like Felton, they were introducing "new and improved" indicators by their "programmer" during my time there. And they are by far not the only rooms to do these shenanigans.


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nakachalet View Post
did you really, really pay 7.500 usd plus 100+ usd....?

you surely didn't, did you?

just curious again to the tune of being appearing dumb and dumber....

what really actually attracted you to pay that amount, pls?

if it is too painful, then you do not need to go on, K?

thx again, cloudy.

There's a confessions thread if you want confessions on $ spent on trading education. And no, like what I said I quit after a month. They tried to sell me into paying for the $7500k course which was not appreciated because there was little value gained from the monthly fee for the reasons I mentioned. I'm just glad they are exposed now and reviewed, as well as Felton so new traders won't be suckered in for anything past the trial.

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I think what would help the credibility of *ALL* vendors is if they used some 3rd party verified results like myfxbook. I trade MT4, BUT I'm very sure that these 3rd party services have a Ninja plugin. The vendors should let their results speak for themselves.

Roger is a nice guy. I also like divergences. I was sending Cloudy terminal-generated results of live trades with nice results and very high accuracy for a couple of weeks. Then I started this #$%!!& remodling project and now I feel rusty and not really wanting to stay glued to the screen.

I may be starting a new thead soon. I found a guy on forexpeacearmy that has 5 stars and 2 pages of people praising his course (which is pretty cheap compared to Felton or most other people). His course also isn't on futures.io (formerly BMT), which I found odd since so many people already know about it on FPA and a couple of other forex sites. I couldn't resist the temptation and I paid for it this afternoon! I want to see what the 2 pages of 5 star reports were about. Well, I hope it's really good! Once I get some experience with it, I'll make a thread saying if it's good or garbage.

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Cloudy View Post
There's a confessions thread if you want confessions on $ spent on trading education. And no, like what I said I quit after a month. They tried to sell me into paying for the $7500k course which was not appreciated because there was little value gained from the monthly fee for the reasons I mentioned. I'm just glad they are exposed now and reviewed, as well as Felton so new traders won't be suckered in for anything past the trial.

relieved indeed. thx cloudy for sharing.

anyway, did you ever see this list of traders education companies and how they work to attract newbies:


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siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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@acbrasil

couldn't believe what i read on what you wrote below:

I couldn't resist the temptation and I paid for it this afternoon!.

thought you said last time that you were a little wiser now, wasn't that right and agreed upon.... LOL ?

....Well, I hope it's really good!....

and you are going to try it just during the grace period, correct? and get your refund within the time limit, right?

imh opi.... even 1 euro is way too expensive if it is not more applicable, proficient and effective than whatever indi we have here at bmt...

acbrasil, do remember to get your money back, K?

warm regards



acbrasil View Post
I think what would help the credibility of *ALL* vendors is if they used some 3rd party verified results like myfxbook. I trade MT4, BUT I'm very sure that these 3rd party services have a Ninja plugin. The vendors should let their results speak for themselves.

Roger is a nice guy. I also like divergences. I was sending Cloudy terminal-generated results of live trades with nice results and very high accuracy for a couple of weeks. Then I started this #$%!!& remodling project and now I feel rusty and not really wanting to stay glued to the screen.

I may be starting a new thead soon. I found a guy on forexpeacearmy that has 5 stars and 2 pages of people praising his course (which is pretty cheap compared to Felton or most other people). His course also isn't on futures.io (formerly BMT), which I found odd since so many people already know about it on FPA and a couple of other forex sites. I couldn't resist the temptation and I paid for it this afternoon! I want to see what the 2 pages of 5 star reports were about. Well, I hope it's really good! Once I get some experience with it, I'll make a thread saying if it's good or garbage.


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  #352 (permalink)
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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i am sorry that i did not make it perfectly clear when this list is posted here, that

many traders and wannabes did have numerous complaints regarding these educators and responsible persons behind.

IT IS NOT A RECOMMENDED LIST. approach with extreme caution everyone.

and for those educators, trainers, proprietorial funds etc whose names do not currently appear on this list, DO NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE LEGIT EITHER, just thought i need to caution my fellow traders here. it just took months and years before enough dissatisfied customers would launch formal complaints against someone or some entities that do them wrong. it just takes time to expose those cheaters and fraudsters and what not.....

no, i am not the owner nor the originator of this listing at all. as a matter of fact, many months ago, i fought to have a certain name removed from the list.

and besides, expensiveness--the like of feltonian and some others are not equivalent to cheat or fraud. when someone or some person INTENTIONALLY mislead you or lies to you in exchange for whatever,
that could be constituted as possible frauds, imho. thx everyone for your interest and time.


nakachalet View Post
relieved indeed. thx cloudy for sharing.

anyway, did you ever see this list of traders education companies and how they work to attract newbies:



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  #353 (permalink)
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nakachalet View Post
@acbrasil

couldn't believe what i read on what you wrote below:

I couldn't resist the temptation and I paid for it this afternoon!.

thought you said last time that you were a little wiser now, wasn't that right and agreed upon.... LOL ?

....Well, I hope it's really good!....

and you are going to try it just during the grace period, correct? and get your refund within the time limit, right?

imh opi.... even 1 euro is way too expensive if it is not more applicable, proficient and effective than whatever indi we have here at bmt...

acbrasil, do remember to get your money back, K?

warm regards

Nakachalet, I wanted to pay for it ($400). I like everything about the financial markets and charts. If that CMT designation would bring a benefit to my life, I would do that too. I haven't been able to watch any videos of this new course because I'm on a 3G connection for the next few days, and I don't want to use up the bandwidth-quota. He also has an Ichomoku course. I have never known how to use that, but if someone is good at it, I'd pay to learn that too. When I was doing my MBA, each course was around $1,500. I like education, so $400 for a *GOOD* course isn't going to kill me.

Back to the vendors, I surely don't disagree with Roger's methodology. I also had some pretty good results with a related methodology in a different thread.

I'm in the for-profit education business myself, but nothing to do with trading. Because of this, I know that most teachers are garbage; they just do it for the money. I do it because I like knowing that I do it better than anyone else, and that the students aren't getting ripped off. The only thing that becomes challenging is when everyone knows that you are the best value, and you don't have time to accomodate everyone into your schedule. One has to be careful with burnout.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that *" I "* bend over backwards for students to make sure that they learn if they really want to (if they show up like they are supposed to). I also know that I produce results. There has to be more people in the trading world with similar characters. The hard part would be finding them. One thing I liked about this guy with this new course is that he replies to ALL emails and comments and everyone was saying the same thing. I thought "Is this guy like me?" We shall see...

Mike, I'm sorry if I'm getting off topic. Is there a "Non-specific Vendors Discussion" area?

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acbrasil View Post
He also has an Ichomoku course. I have never known how to use that, but if someone is good at it, I'd pay to learn that too.

When I read something like this, it really makes me sad....

Partly because people still put their faith in mathematical derivatives of price as opposed to understanding market dynamics.

Partly because when I say this, I will be branded a negative a$$hole by saying so.

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DionysusToast View Post
When I read something like this, it really makes me sad....

Partly because people still put their faith in mathematical derivatives of price as opposed to understanding market dynamics.

Partly because when I say this, I will be branded a negative a$$hole by saying so.

Curious you mention that, i was thinking along the same lines myself. Why not trying to learn from known masters like James Dalton to name one person for a start and build your own system around that. It takes time but at least you'd start correctly.

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DionysusToast View Post
When I read something like this, it really makes me sad....

Partly because people still put their faith in mathematical derivatives of price as opposed to understanding market dynamics.

Partly because when I say this, I will be branded a negative a$$hole by saying so.



trendisyourfriend View Post
Curious you mention that, i was thinking along the same lines myself. Why not trying to learn from known masters like James Dalton to name one person for a start and build your own system around that. It takes time but at least you'd start correctly.

I think as traders we benefit from learning about every approach to the markets. For instance, I am not a market profile trader, or an order flow trader, but I thought it was important to at least learn the basics of these approaches, and determine their worth for me personally, and if/how they would fit with my trading personality. Although I determined that I didn't particularly believe in them, or that they did not fit my trading style, I still think it was important to learn about them. That helps me as a trader by broadening my trading views, and by getting insight on how other groups of traders think, and what decisions they might make at various places. Having insight into the plan of traders you might be trading against, may potentially be exploitable and be a viable trading approach in and of itself.

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acbrasil View Post
Hey Guys!

Cloudy, you'll probably remember me because I was sending you my terminal results. Nakachalet, I was the guy that was always talking about double-tops and double-bottoms. I disappeared from trading for a few months because I have been remodling an apartment. I'm still not done yet! I stepped away because I couldn't be at the screen in the morning, and longer-term trades don't seem to work with my personality/risk tolerance.

Now, today was the first day in a LONG while (3-4 months) that I sat at the screen. It's tough!! It's hard to stay focused and interested. My opinion from watching the trials is that Roger is a decent guy with a decent system. The problem, I think for Roger is that I can't find anyone on any serious message boards who have paid for his course that come here to show terminal real trading software results. (Most of us just "tried out" his limited services to non-members). He offered to train someone in another forum for free; I would take him up on an offer like that!! At the end of the "training", even if the styles don't match, then you have a live room that you can go to to hear people doing the same thing as you're doing. It would help to stay focused I think. That would definitely be in Roger's best business interest: he trains someone who is the member of a "community" to honestly tell/show other people how they are doing. Well, if he wants to do that, he knows where I'm at.

Yeah, back when members of futures.io (formerly BMT) could see the trials, I also got wrapped up in the live -vs- demo trading. But being away has given me some time to think about it: it's impossible to anwer questions, and risk live money. The only thing lacking, IMO, is the NinjaTrader results INSTEAD OF speadsheets, or show both. The trading software-generated results (terminal results) are hard to fake. Demo or Live. The only time I have seen where this becomes an issue is when profit targets are VERY SMALL (3-4 ticks). Demo trading is an immediate fill whereas live trading usually has to contend with a higher spreads. I still believe that the basis of his system is sound because I have been using something similar for a while now.

In the meantime, if there're any real paid-up customers who are using his software, I'm sure people are still curious to hear the results. Good or bad. I hope good though because I NEVER see anything positive about vendors. I like to think there are more honest people out there, and not just tricksters.

ACBRASIL, I had a week trial in Rogers room and as luck would have it, the market was so dead for 90 minutes and roger kept talking as if we just had a flash crash with so much excitement I started to get a headache and left. I will tell you this, I saw him openly trade in sim mode that day, and yet a couple weeks later he sent me a replay of daily highlights and said it was realtime. Huh?????????

Anyway, if you need the difference in that 2 seconds of waiting time between demo and real to make you profitable, I think that system has to suck. Everyone agree. And when I was live with tradestation futures, I had no precievable lag in execution and thats with a cheap computer 5 years ago. I already mentioned in this thread that I believe Roger is teaching and not trading now because it IS too stressful to worry about every tick. Not for me. I want a system that uses at least 15 min bars and I can even set my tgts and stops and close the platform for the day. Roger says you can use his stuff for any time frame, so why doesnt he show us it works on swing trading too? Just give us the plays on monday and tues and then the results on friday or following monday. Something aint right. But to be fair, his wife Beverly and Roger himself did write to me and said we will be glad to give you plenty of extra time in the room if you need it. Thats very sweet. But guys..................this thread is getting old. Lets find out what the problem is, what the profit potential is and end this thread in the next month or 2. I think all of us just dont have the time to even take all the free trials he gives away as we either have jobs or are too busy with other systems. And all the posts about Roger from 6 months ago or more are now useless because its a whole new system he is using now.

My intuition in deciphering Rogers vagueness in the room as to what is powering this magic indicator of his is that it is moving average based. I dont know how thrilled I am about that. Show me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -)

I mean I took a trial with one of the biggest software co's everyone likely heard of, they used only red and blue arrows as signals, and i found out on my own that a signal appeared every time price crosed the 20 moving average. I saved $2000 and just implemented the 20ma into my list of qualifiers which I was about to do anyway. We need to find out...WHAT IS THE MAIN DRIVER OF ROGERS SYSTEM? Then Id be glad to base part of my decision on how interesting that is...not just on winning small amounts for a week.

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  #358 (permalink)
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[
My intuition in deciphering Rogers vagueness in the room as to what is powering this magic indicator of his is that it is moving average based. I dont know how thrilled I am about that. Show me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -)




moving averages are just average.

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.....and in the wrong hands,Sunil(like mine) they can be devastating. Now I use them visually to tell when SOMETHING IS OVERBOUGHT OR OVERSOLD AND THEY AS i EXPLAINED WORK BETTER FOR ME THAN any RSI or Stochastic could ever do. But......when I based my decision to "buy" when price crosses an average....Its not possible....but I lose 75-82% of my trades!!! Documented this for 6 months. I always thought, if price in a high volume instrument is over the 8sma and the 8sma is over the 20sma, this is very big money moving it, not typical grandmas 401k. I have watched price cross my moving average from the bottom of a daily chart to the middle. the top, anywhere that moving average is. Naturally if it gets there too fast I saw you were playing with fire as buyers tend to dry up, but....what happens when you move out of a base or a choppy period where it doesnt take much energy(money) to get over that 8? The result is still not mathematically profitable! To be honest, this one fact alone, destroys the relevancy of 75% of trading systems out there, whether from a book, for sale on the Internet or we made it up. Very sad. In fact, the turtles made hundreds of millions with a moving average system that you can buy for like 1500-2000 bucks on the internet. Why? It stopped working. Thats another thread I gotta start soon. Are the people highlighted in the book Market Wizards, are their trading methods still working today 20 years or so later? I invite anyone to start that puppy up! -)

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Daytrader50 View Post
...when I based my decision to "buy" when price crosses an average....Its not possible....but I lose 75-82% of my trades!!! ...! -)

Have always considered moving averages as a finger pointing to the moon. It is said the fool focus his attention on the finger.

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siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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DionysusToast View Post
When I read something like this, it really makes me sad....

Partly because people still put their faith in mathematical derivatives of price as opposed to understanding market dynamics.

Partly because when I say this, I will be branded a negative a$$hole by saying so.

@DionysusToast

on the contrary, you are at the very least at the 90th percentile, any one who is able to comprehend and declare....

....people still put their faith in mathematical derivatives of price as opposed to understanding market dynamics....

shows tremendous depth and understanding of just how the price action and market work in unison and at the same time dependent on one another.

you are way ahead of many of us here. but i am just a practically senile member.... LOL what do i really know.... LOL

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  #362 (permalink)
somewhere, brazil
 
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nakachalet View Post
@DionysusToast

on the contrary, you are at the very least at the 90th percentile, any one who is able to comprehend and declare....

....people still put their faith in mathematical derivatives of price as opposed to understanding market dynamics....

shows tremendous depth and understanding of just how the price action and market work in unison and at the same time dependent on one another.

you are way ahead of many of us here. but i am just a practically senile member.... LOL what do i really know.... LOL


Dionysis, do you have some verified 3rd party results? No spreadsheets of demo results, please. :-)

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  #363 (permalink)
somewhere, brazil
 
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Daytrader50 View Post
.....and in the wrong hands,Sunil(like mine) they can be devastating. Now I use them visually to tell when SOMETHING IS OVERBOUGHT OR OVERSOLD AND THEY AS i EXPLAINED WORK BETTER FOR ME THAN any RSI or Stochastic could ever do. But......when I based my decision to "buy" when price crosses an average....Its not possible....but I lose 75-82% of my trades!!! Documented this for 6 months. I always thought, if price in a high volume instrument is over the 8sma and the 8sma is over the 20sma, this is very big money moving it, not typical grandmas 401k. I have watched price cross my moving average from the bottom of a daily chart to the middle. the top, anywhere that moving average is. Naturally if it gets there too fast I saw you were playing with fire as buyers tend to dry up, but....what happens when you move out of a base or a choppy period where it doesnt take much energy(money) to get over that 8? The result is still not mathematically profitable! To be honest, this one fact alone, destroys the relevancy of 75% of trading systems out there, whether from a book, for sale on the Internet or we made it up. Very sad. In fact, the turtles made hundreds of millions with a moving average system that you can buy for like 1500-2000 bucks on the internet. Why? It stopped working. Thats another thread I gotta start soon. Are the people highlighted in the book Market Wizards, are their trading methods still working today 20 years or so later? I invite anyone to start that puppy up! -)

daytrader50, if you are losing that many trades, you must be reacting to the candles. I hope you are using a demo account. If I had a loss rate that high, I would just program my computer to do the opposite of whatever you input. Then you would go to 80% winning rate

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acbrasil View Post
Dionysis, do you have some verified 3rd party results? No spreadsheets of demo results, please. :-)

You lost me there?

You mean do I have verified results of a 3rd party trader?

Or are you looking for my own trading income? If the latter, no I don't. I don't train traders or operate a trading room either. To be honest, I'd rather give post a pic of me naked than make it public what I earn.

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  #365 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
You lost me there?

You mean do I have verified results of a 3rd party trader?

Or are you looking for my own trading income? If the latter, no I don't. I don't train traders or operate a trading room either. To be honest, I'd rather give post a pic of me naked than make it public what I earn.

I've been saying this the entire time: "Vendors should have some 3rd party verified results". It says vendor under your name. What I'm talking about is something like this:

(this site works best with Firefox; with Chrome it doesn't load right..)
winsor's Profile | Myfxbook
^^ That's not me-- just the first result in google.

or like these: check out these returns and drawdown statistics:
Trading Systems | Myfxbook

These type of "trackers" work in 2 ways, either you give them the investor password to your account or you use a plug-in. These are not after-the-fact spreadsheets that can be fudged. This is the real deal, and my suspicion to why vendors DON'T use something to prove their results. If you choose to use something like this, it's 100% customizable: you can opt to hide account balances and only show return, etc.. there are lots of options. Someone doesn't have to see your income, just your trade history or monthly return. You choose. But it cannot be manipulated.

The only way a vendor can fudge something like this is if they blow an account, and then try to set up a new account really quickly, usually accompanied with a "change in strategy". BUT you've bookmarked it. Then you can go back and see that it was blown and the vendor isn't worth used toilet paper. I've busted a couple guys doing this, but since I'm the "live and let live" kind of person, I don't make it my life's quest to tell the whole world like I have seen some people do.

I don't think they integrate very easily with Dukas (my broker). I'll probably set up a MT4 account someplace else this week so I can put this tracker in my signature here. I really think that everyone who is thinking about contracting a vendor should seriously see something like this before paying anything.

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  #366 (permalink)
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I said that forexmagnates is no longer tracking this information. Correction: they really are.
Q2 2012: profitability of forex traders keeps dropping, OANDA back on top | Forex Magnates

It's interesting to see how Interactive Brokers is actually the highest.

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  #367 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
You lost me there?

You mean do I have verified results of a 3rd party trader?

Or are you looking for my own trading income? If the latter, no I don't. I don't train traders or operate a trading room either. To be honest, I'd rather give post a pic of me naked than make it public what I earn.

....Or are you looking for my own trading income? If the latter, no I don't. ....

I don't train traders or operate a trading room either. *

To be honest, I'd rather give post a pic of me naked*


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acbrasil View Post
I've been saying this the entire time: "Vendors should have some 3rd party verified results". It says vendor under your name. .

NinjaTrader are vendors - would you ask for their account statements before buying their software?
Tradervue sells software for trade journalling - would you need an account statement before buying their software?

In my case, I sell software that has a refund policy - try it, if you don't like it, ask for your $$$ back. As such, I don't see why I personally need to publish my earnings.

I think the necessity for statements depends on what you are selling.

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nakachalet View Post
....Or are you looking for my own trading income? If the latter, no I don't. ....

I don't train traders or operate a trading room either. *

To be honest, I'd rather give post a pic of me naked*



PM Sent....

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  #370 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
NinjaTrader are vendors - would you ask for their account statements before buying their software?
Tradervue sells software for trade journalling - would you need an account statement before buying their software?

In my case, I sell software that has a refund policy - try it, if you don't like it, ask for your $$$ back. As such, I don't see why I personally need to publish my earnings.

I think the necessity for statements depends on what you are selling.

Actually if you sell indicators, back and forward tests are good. Anything that actually claims to actually enhance performace should be able to show it.

Just my 2cents.

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acbrasil View Post
Actually if you sell indicators, back and forward tests are good. Anything that actually claims to actually enhance performace should be able to show it.

Just my 2cents.

Wouldn't be much point in that, really would there?

I'm of the opinion that indicators are of little use hence my earlier comments

"people still put their faith in mathematical derivatives of price as opposed to understanding market dynamics."

I do agree though - if you sell pretty red & green lights, you should show how well they work - trouble is you would then sell zero pretty red & green lights.

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I was a student of Roger and I noticed that there an infinite number of permutations and combinations of the indicators with no specific rules. Effectively the novice has to find a combination that works from a myriad of indicators. I asked him how on earth he expects students to know which combinations will work. You would have thought as the developer he would have at least specific settings that he can spell out. He use the tactic that there will student training as if there is something special that he will teach students only. I attended most of them and they are full of generalities and not even worth the amount he charges. I also noted that some of the students posting results in the room and they are quite suspect as they never seem to post any losers and given his systems too many signals its hard to believe the results. I have spent a lot of money on crap but Roger's would be the worst money I have ever spent on a trading system. Some of the Signals are Bottle Rockets , Supreme Momentum , SA (Trendline Break ) , Divergences . How on earth does a student know which one . Save your money do not buy this crap.

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  #373 (permalink)
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wedzistar View Post
I was a student of Roger and I noticed that there an infinite number of permutations and combinations of the indicators with no specific rules. Effectively the novice has to find a combination that works from a myriad of indicators. I asked him how on earth he expects students to know which combinations will work. You would have thought as the developer he would have at least specific settings that he can spell out. He use the tactic that there will student training as if there is something special that he will teach students only. I attended most of them and they are full of generalities and not even worth the amount he charges. I also noted that some of the students posting results in the room and they are quite suspect as they never seem to post any losers and given his systems too many signals its hard to believe the results. I have spent a lot of money on crap but Roger's would be the worst money I have ever spent on a trading system. Some of the Signals are Bottle Rockets , Supreme Momentum , SA (Trendline Break ) , Divergences . How on earth does a student know which one . Save your money do not buy this crap.

Wow, 3rd post and it is such a libelous one! For the record I am not a student or member of Felton Trading, nor have I been. I have been in their trading room a few times as a guest and observed the processes. I also have a personal friend who is a member and is doing quite well with the tools that Felton trading provides. My friend was a somewhat decent trader (imo) before felton and he has become a more consistent trader and has been increasing his account and trading size since joining just over a year ago.

It is a lot of money for the Felton system/course and trade room so it is a substantial investment to be sure. I understand now that they offer a free trial of most of their software so something they did not offer before. It sounds like your expectations were for a green light / red light type of trading system with all the perfect settings to turn your PC into an ATM machine. I do know as do most others that everyone trades differently thus a good trade system to me mostly likely would be poor one to you as it all depends so much on our capital and trading risk style. So if Roger, or anyone for that matter, said to you here are the setting to be successful and you could see that they were successful with them and you weren't, would it be because of the settings or your execution? So hopefully you understand that settings are one thing, trade execution with you as the button pusher is another!

That said I have observed on numerous occasions when in the room where Rodger or someone else is doing live trading (by this I mean not market replay but live data. I honestly do not know if they are using real money accounts) and dynamically explaining their entry/exit decisions most of the time well ahead of the event. I also see that they post their daily trading records and I see that some days they do show loses. You can track back their daily trade win/loss on their website. Obviously they are more successful overall. Could you not have traded with them, regardless of settings? I think that is what they encourage new traders to do.

I was a little suprised about what you wrote about the settings as again the few times i've been in Roger and the others do not hesitate to show their settings (when asked) and freely share their chart templates. Roger and the other room moderators, they have different tweaks and settings according to their own trading style and again they tell you that as well as tease each other about their trading styles.

I've done my research on Roger felton (you can find plenty of posts here by him and about him as well as other forums) and I see he has been an indicator nut from day 1 and has shared his indicators (in the early days) freely (dang it!), so I am not suprised that he has a great many indicators and has exposed all types of settings to tweak them. From my research I see he was big on Divergence type trading and that is what he is probably most comfortable with whereas others in his room don't use the divergence signals. I note that Felton recently implemented an impressive Elliot wave indicator with the bar types he uses and some people use the indicator and others do not. Again it is a matter of finding what resonates with you.

As far as their trading, they close their room on Fridays to students only for training purposes, did you ever attend any of those? My friend tells me that that is where they will focus on the various indicators/methods they use (Hearsay since I haven't seen this) and answer very specifically the questions asked. My friend also told me that he an Roger spent time 1 on 1 together to get up and running as well as go through the various trades that Roger had made in the preceding days. Did you spend any time talking directly to Roger at all?

I realize this all might sound strange coming from someone who is not a student but to be honest when you wrote with such venom I really felt it was unfair based on what i have seen and heard. I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience. If you really did pay for Felton Trading then you are a lifetime member so I would suggest you go back and spend more time with Roger and simply follow his live trading until you are comfortable with what of his indicators resonates with you.

Regards,

"Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." - Woody Allen
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monpere View Post
Bottom line is, whether or not a vendor trades live or sim, has no bearing on how YOU will perform using that method. So, to me it doesn't matter. The vendor doesn't have to trade the method at all for that matter, he doesn't even have to be a trader! For me, he just has to have a viable idea, I will run with that idea and determine if that idea will work for me or not.

Never believe anything any vendor ever says, no matter how awesome it seems. You take that concept home, kick the tires and put it through the paces. That is what will determine if that method will work for you. The vendor trading live or sim is immaterial. He could trade that discretionary method live and make a gazillion dollars in front of your eyes, so you buy that method, and you lose your pants in 3 days. Beyond that method itself, your own discretionary input and trading approach will determine your success with it, not if the vendor trades it live or sim.

I am mainly a divergence trader. I am not a Felton supporter, nor opponent, but I initially learned divergence from Roger Felton years ago, yet I could not become profitable with divergence until I grew as a trader, studied other people's approaches to divergence, and developed my own trading style using divergence. I now trade divergence quite differently then Roger. Although I was never profitable trading his method exactly how he taught it, I did learn quite a bit from his ideas, and his approach and views on the subject, just as I learned other aspects of divergence from a couple of other vendors as well.

I use to believe that a vendor should trade live also, but as I grew as a trader, I've come to realize that a vendor's trading or lack thereof, will not guarantee my success. My own handling of the method is the only thing that determines how that method will perform for me.

if the system is crap no matter how disciplined you are you will still lose. Sometimes its not the novice's trader fault they are not making any money. there is just too much rubbish out there.

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Tasker_182 View Post
Wow, 3rd post and it is such a libelous one! For the record I am not a student or member of Felton Trading, nor have I been. I have been in their trading room a few times as a guest and observed the processes. I also have a personal friend who is a member and is doing quite well with the tools that Felton trading provides. My friend was a somewhat decent trader (imo) before felton and he has become a more consistent trader and has been increasing his account and trading size since joining just over a year ago.

It is a lot of money for the Felton system/course and trade room so it is a substantial investment to be sure. I understand now that they offer a free trial of most of their software so something they did not offer before. It sounds like your expectations were for a green light / red light type of trading system with all the perfect settings to turn your PC into an ATM machine. I do know as do most others that everyone trades differently thus a good trade system to me mostly likely would be poor one to you as it all depends so much on our capital and trading risk style. So if Roger, or anyone for that matter, said to you here are the setting to be successful and you could see that they were successful with them and you weren't, would it be because of the settings or your execution? So hopefully you understand that settings are one thing, trade execution with you as the button pusher is another!

That said I have observed on numerous occasions when in the room where Rodger or someone else is doing live trading (by this I mean not market replay but live data. I honestly do not know if they are using real money accounts) and dynamically explaining their entry/exit decisions most of the time well ahead of the event. I also see that they post their daily trading records and I see that some days they do show loses. You can track back their daily trade win/loss on their website. Obviously they are more successful overall. Could you not have traded with them, regardless of settings? I think that is what they encourage new traders to do.

I was a little suprised about what you wrote about the settings as again the few times i've been in Roger and the others do not hesitate to show their settings (when asked) and freely share their chart templates. Roger and the other room moderators, they have different tweaks and settings according to their own trading style and again they tell you that as well as tease each other about their trading styles.

I've done my research on Roger felton (you can find plenty of posts here by him and about him as well as other forums) and I see he has been an indicator nut from day 1 and has shared his indicators (in the early days) freely (dang it!), so I am not suprised that he has a great many indicators and has exposed all types of settings to tweak them. From my research I see he was big on Divergence type trading and that is what he is probably most comfortable with whereas others in his room don't use the divergence signals. I note that Felton recently implemented an impressive Elliot wave indicator with the bar types he uses and some people use the indicator and others do not. Again it is a matter of finding what resonates with you.

As far as their trading, they close their room on Fridays to students only for training purposes, did you ever attend any of those? My friend tells me that that is where they will focus on the various indicators/methods they use (Hearsay since I haven't seen this) and answer very specifically the questions asked. My friend also told me that he an Roger spent time 1 on 1 together to get up and running as well as go through the various trades that Roger had made in the preceding days. Did you spend any time talking directly to Roger at all?

I realize this all might sound strange coming from someone who is not a student but to be honest when you wrote with such venom I really felt it was unfair based on what i have seen and heard. I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience. If you really did pay for Felton Trading then you are a lifetime member so I would suggest you go back and spend more time with Roger and simply follow his live trading until you are comfortable with what of his indicators resonates with you.

Regards,

I was a lifetime member and have attended all so called student lessons , there is not much in there. Every week there is a new software update to add to the confusion. The Tuesday psychology lesson is a marketing ploy for Dr Mike. If your friend is making money they just stumbled on a winning combination. Its in spite of Roger 's teaching rather than a result of it. There are too numerous variables. If you want go ahead and waste your money like I did go ahead . I am warning others so that they don't fall into the same deception.You seem like a paid spokesman from from Roger to give a defense of something you did not pay for . Don't lead others astray.

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wedzistar View Post
...You seem like a paid spokesman from from Roger to give a defense of something you did not pay for . Don't lead others astray.

For the record, I am not and never have been. And I agree, don't lead others astray. I defer to your membership experience and again sorry that you found no value there. Hopefully you will find something that works for you. Best of luck.

Regards,

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Tasker_182 View Post
For the record, I am not and never have been. And I agree, don't lead others astray. I defer to your membership experience and again sorry that you found no value there. Hopefully you will find something that works for you. Best of luck.

Regards,

When I told a friend of mine that I was Regor's student he told me that he had been a student of Roger in 2011 . He told me that of all coaches he had come across in this snake oil infested business, Roger was at the Bottom of the pile. I told my friend I would give him chance but I soon realized my friend was right. The man is full of hot air.

You have not paid a dime to the man and you have the cheeky to say its unfair to expose the fraudsters. What about the countless people being cheated of their hard earned money.How come there are not many students singing praises of the Roger here.

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  #378 (permalink)
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I am a Felton student and like their software and have been profitable with it. The key for me though is the one on one mentorship of Clint (the other moderator). He freely shares with his students how he trades, helps you develop a trade plan to suit you, helps set up rules, goes over your trades with you each week, etc. This has been invaluable to me and makes the Felton software worth the price for me. Did you take advantage of this wedzistar?

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wedzistar View Post
When I told a friend of mine that I was Regor's student he told me that he had been a student of Roger in 2011 . He told me that of all coaches he had come across in this snake oil infested business, Roger was at the Bottom of the pile. I told my friend I would give him chance but I soon realized my friend was right. The man is full of hot air.

You have not paid a dime to the man and you have the cheeky to say its unfair to expose the fraudsters. What about the countless people being cheated of their hard earned money.How come there are not many students singing praises of the Roger here.

Hey man,

" ...you have the cheeky to say its unfair to expose the fraudsters." I never said that, why are you quoting inaccurately and why are you incorrectly interpreting what i've said? You said many libelous things, if you can provide proof it would help your case otherwise you are ineffectively distributing your anger.

"How come there are not many students singing praises of the Roger here." Typically on forum boards when one person sings the praises of a particular product or service or vendor people like yourself come out and rip apart any type of positive review, throwing out terminology like snake-oil salesman, fraudster, etc, all without a shred of any kind of proof.

While it is important to share that you've had a bad experience and nothing wrong with giving your opinion you need to calm it down and provide the facts so that other that read this later will understand what you found wrong and what is it that made this particular vendor so bad in your opinion. Being hateful and libelous is no way to effectively communicate.

I have always thought that all vendors and products should be treated with suspicion until their merits can be proven to yourself. Not all vendors and products are a good match for every trader. To get past the "snake oil" types you as a potential customer have to do your due diligence before you buy.

"Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." - Woody Allen
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  #380 (permalink)
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I spoke to Clint the first week I subscribed and asked how best can i take advantage of this software . Which setups can someone start with BR,SM,HD,SA etc as they were too many. He just waffled without giving any details . I then arranged for a one on one with Roger who went to give me a similar answer, wasting an hour . I then asked him to direct me to previous training sessions but he could n't as most of them I watched either they are discussing a new signal addition or software upgrade . No clear structure as to which way to go. I sent an email to Clint to arrange another one on one he did not reply to the email. I kept attending the room and most of the time its pure waffling and promises that "students " there special training after visitors have left. I tried to actually see if there was any merit of sending visitors away as the student classes are nothing special at all. I realized this was a ploy to make visitors feel they are missing out on something yet there is really no substance at all.There really no explanation on how to filter the SM , BR too many to mention. He keeps on saying the student has to come with his own rules effectively developing a system from the numerous indicators he sells. Clint has too many templates and charts and change too often.

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For due diligence to work , those who have actually experienced the service have to be honest which I am . You on the other hand you have not spent any money and you spend your time reading forums and responding to criticism pretending to be a neutral party when in fact you are a beneficiary of the fraud. The only person who feels hurt by snake oil or fraudster tags is a the snake oil himself. You clearly are working for Roger or another similar fraudster. I hope other members are not misled your kind. Wolves in sheep's clothing.

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wedzistar View Post
For due diligence to work , those who have actually experienced the service have to be honest which I am . You on the other hand you have not spent any money and you spend your time reading forums and responding to criticism pretending to be a neutral party when in fact you are a beneficiary of the fraud. The only person who feels hurt by snake oil or fraudster tags is a the snake oil himself. You clearly are working for Roger or another similar fraudster. I hope other members are not misled your kind. Wolves in sheep's clothing.

Sorry, but you continue to be wrong.

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  #383 (permalink)
San Diego
 
Experience: Beginner
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wedzistar View Post
I spoke to Clint the first week I subscribed and asked how best can i take advantage of this software . Which setups can someone start with BR,SM,HD,SA etc as they were too many. He just waffled without giving any details . I then arranged for a one on one with Roger who went to give me a similar answer, wasting an hour . I then asked him to direct me to previous training sessions but he could n't as most of them I watched either they are discussing a new signal addition or software upgrade . No clear structure as to which way to go. I sent an email to Clint to arrange another one on one he did not reply to the email. I kept attending the room and most of the time its pure waffling and promises that "students " there special training after visitors have left. I tried to actually see if there was any merit of sending visitors away as the student classes are nothing special at all. I realized this was a ploy to make visitors feel they are missing out on something yet there is really no substance at all.There really no explanation on how to filter the SM , BR too many to mention. He keeps on saying the student has to come with his own rules effectively developing a system from the numerous indicators he sells. Clint has too many templates and charts and change too often.

My experience with Clint has been much different. Sorry it did not work out for you.

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  #384 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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Manta, Ecuador
 
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wedzistar View Post
You clearly are working for Roger or another similar fraudster.

While I have no love lost for Roger Felton, you are out of line making such an accusation. Unless you post explicit proof you are not welcome to continue this line of discussion in this manner.

Mike

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  #385 (permalink)
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: nijia trader
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the trading concept of his method is looking for cum. delts diveragances at key reference points. cum. delta the way he explanes it is traders using market orders... some how the use of market orders not limit orders has grater meaning... save your 1000.00 i did not see any edage there. just use the divergance of the volume brake down indicator in gom... it works better.... he sold the corse to a third party who is resalling it now...

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  #386 (permalink)
Castle Pines N, CO.
 
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forgiven View Post
the trading concept of his method is looking for cum. delts diveragances at key reference points. cum. delta the way he explanes it is traders using market orders... some how the use of market orders not limit orders has grater meaning... save your 1000.00 i did not see any edage there. just use the divergance of the volume brake down indicator in gom... it works better.... he sold the corse to a third party who is resalling it now...

Seems like what u use for "key reference point" is of equal or greater importance then confirmation indication? The key reference point is what makes u a winner overall imho.

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  #387 (permalink)
Europe
 
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Felton method has nothing to do with deltas or cum. deltas, do you mean Fulcrum Trader?





forgiven View Post
the trading concept of his method is looking for cum. delts diveragances at key reference points. cum. delta the way he explanes it is traders using market orders... some how the use of market orders not limit orders has grater meaning... save your 1000.00 i did not see any edage there. just use the divergance of the volume brake down indicator in gom... it works better.... he sold the corse to a third party who is resalling it now...


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  #388 (permalink)
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
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yes you are 100% corect i ment Fulcrum Trade ... i will remove the post ....thanks

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  #389 (permalink)
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
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post removed not correct

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  #390 (permalink)
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
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gg80108 View Post
Seems like what u use for "key reference point" is of equal or greater importance then confirmation indication? The key reference point is what makes u a winner overall imho.

the key reference point is where you can look for a reversal, unless you can read orderflow you can only place a trade and hope it holds.. l never had any luck looking for diveragances on any indicators as a filter to pre- quilify the zone i have picked to hold or fail. that is all i am saying

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  #391 (permalink)
Fletcher NC
 
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  #392 (permalink)
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Hi all...I've been meaning to do this for a while, so with the renewed discussion on Felton's room, I thought now was a good time to do it!
I started a post on here...oh going on 3 years ago now...I meant it to be an impartial way to show my experience from joining Felton to being a profitable trader. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. And I had the time, at that point in my life, to really "dig in"...I watched back trainings, learned the software, sat in on live trading every day and watched the live trainings every day. I had conversations directly with Roger and Clint. I learned the system so quickly, that when I started helping others in the room, they made me an official helper for quite some time. I think I'm qualified to say I know both Roger and Clint pretty well, along with the system and the room. Although caveat that at this point, I haven't logged in for well over a year. Here is the rest of my story as I typed it up maybe 6 months ago:

When I began in the room, Roger (Felton) was scalping using line break charts. I’d watch him consistently win 80%+ of his trades. That is real-time trading, but NOT live trading. I’ve had my discussions with him on why he won’t trade live on screen and I understand his reasons for it. I don’t think that invalidates what he does per se.

I loved having someplace to go every day…I was quite new with futures, about 6 months, when I joined the Felton room. I loved the daily trainings. I started connecting with other traders. It helps not to be so isolated when you’re trying to make this your livelihood. It’s also great that you can get on the phone with Roger or Clint at any time, at no charge.

At some point in, maybe 6 months or so, I realized I still didn’t have a set of trading RULES. I talked to Roger about this. It left me very disappointed. He thinks “rules” are money management. To me, they are quite different. Rules for entry and exit are not money management. He doesn’t seem to understand or acknowledge the difference. Clint, for sure, understands that. So I called Clint. He talked me through how to put together a basic set of rules and start testing them. Clint is the gem of the organization.

My biggest complaint is that Roger made constant changes to how he trades in the room….there is always a new pet indicator that he created (or found and tweaked and called it his own). Then he discovered what he calls “renko supreme” bars…which are really just his version of the unirenkos you can find on futures.io (formerly BMT) for free. These bars were quite a radical departure from what he had been doing and some days he seemed to be hitting consistent (scalp) winners. So I decided to try it. Luckily I was still in sim only at that point, as I had some of the worst losing days ever. Nothing seemed to win with those bars, at least not for me. I began asking others in the room how they were doing. I couldn’t find anyone who was profitable with these things except people who were using other / more traditional methods in tandem…e.g. time-based bars, traditional technical analysis, etc. Even Clint and Roger’s daily profit postings seemed to be quite poor compared to their line break days.

I spent quite some time on the phone with Roger, explaining this and suggesting that perhaps he could let Clint continue to show the line breaks that had worked so well for many, and he could show the renko supremes and therefore, folks could have a choice. He seemed to like the idea, but nothing came of it. That’s when I lost interest and focused on my own path, which took me back to basics.

So while this is probably too long a story, here is a summary of my experience and viewpoints on Felton Trading:

Pros:
• It gives you a place to go every day and connect with others, see real-time trading
• Daily training
• Access to Roger and/or Clint
• Clint is also available for some technical support issues
• “Dr Mike” gives a chat on psychology of trading every Tuesday (just enough to try to sell you his services)
• If you listen to Clint’s trainings, you’ll totally get the basics of journaling, creating and testing rules, etc.
• Other students who do well are asked to create videos of how they trade and those are available to you, some of which are quite useful

Cons:
• Roger is constantly changing up his system. If you keep changing with him, you will never be profitable. (Possible remedy: when you find something you like, stick with it and don’t keep following his new gadgets…but if you’re in the room, that’s difficult to do)
• You will not learn much in the way of basic technical analysis here and I do believe it is important to long term consistent profitability
• The system is a memory hog on your machine; and watch out for updates as it can sometimes be buggy and crash your system and/or break your templates and you have to re-create them.

Summary:
Do you “need” this room? No. Do you “need” any trading room? No. As one of my personal heroes, Linda Raschke says…there are no shortcuts…do the work. Learn the basics, sit with your charts, start seeing patterns and setups for yourself. Learn to master your emotions. READ…a LOT. That having been said, if you want someplace to go every day and can find your own discipline to keep to the basics and create your own set of rules, the FT system may work for you. It’s not an out-of-the-box panacea for doing the work, however. And I don’t think anything is. But for what the Felton system costs, I think there are better options out there.

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  #393 (permalink)
Philadelphia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: SierraCharts, Ninja
Broker: Optimus (Rithmic)
Trading: Futures (ES, TF) Options
 
Posts: 10 since Jun 2011
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I remember Jill from the room when I was in there a couple yrs back or so. Felton was one of my first trading experiences. I was curious if Jill ever found success with them, but sadly no. Nor did I. I agree with everything she said about the room. It's a nice environment with helpful, positive people. But that's not going to make anyone a profitable trader.

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  #394 (permalink)
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: nijia trader
Broker: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
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they should stick to sell computers

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  #395 (permalink)
the coin hunter
virginia
 
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cloudy deleted the link but you can google 'tradingschools reviews felton-trading' and read it yourself, the review touches on some good points on how to evaluate a trading room. It's worth a quick read.

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  #396 (permalink)
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: nijia trader
Broker: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
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Big Mike View Post
Except when some vendors list his "track record" like a spreadsheet, with all the money you could have made trading his system, and none of those trades were taken live - or in some cases, some vendors are known for not being clear about what they call as trades in the room, and the winners show up in the "track record" report on the website but losers are no where to be found.

@monpere, would you stop trading your system live, and instead only trade it sim and run a room selling those signals?

Mike

show a veto making it look as easy as falling of a log..then a huge profit curve with no draw down going back years// over 300,000 trading 2 contracts in two years or so... no a single draw down...it is the grail// come on in

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  #397 (permalink)
Philadelphia, Pa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Charts
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Trading: CL, ES
 
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Posts: 144 since Jun 2009
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Got an email from these guys today. Had a trial years ago. Now the contact info shows a phone number and address in Chile. Weird, but I bet it's still a sham

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  #398 (permalink)
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Bookmap
Trading: RTY
 
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Posts: 40 since Nov 2011
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longboat View Post
Got an email from these guys today. Had a trial years ago. Now the contact info shows a phone number and address in Chile. Weird, but I bet it's still a sham

That is very strange. I heard maybe a year ago that they closed down...although I was a PAID member, no one ever contacted me (and my email address has not changed) so I don't know why I never got a note. I don't think they were a scam, but I don't think the old guy that ran it was a very good trader or at least not a replicatable trader.

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  #399 (permalink)
desert CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, SC, ToS
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I stumbled on a review of Felton , amusingly by Dean Handley two years ago. So Felton's still doing his fuzzy obfuscating malarky after being gone from here. Worth some entertainment if bored :


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  #400 (permalink)
Kansas City Mo.
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradestation
Broker: tradestation
Trading: es
 
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Posts: 47 since Dec 2009
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Knew Rodger and have had many conversations with him when he was with Afshin in Texas. He quickly learned when he was on his own to push as many methodologies as possible to be able to find a few that were profitable and ignore the rest. The sales staff at Traders International was taught how to show winners and patterns as profitable after the fact and shining recaps that would make sales easier.

Rodger keeps a few different sim accounts running so he"ll always be able to show profits that are totally unrealistic to any real time trader. His likeability keeps those in his programs off the fact that he"s never trading real money but just a great salesman pushing new system after new system. some people always want to believe they've found the holy grail. how many times does Rodger pop up within a few $$ of his daily goal on his sim accounts without ever showing any trades?

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