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Has anyone ever heard of Felton Trading? (www.feltontrading.com)
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Has anyone ever heard of Felton Trading? (www.feltontrading.com)

  #271 (permalink)
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felton is a rare exception amongst education vendors


gg80108 View Post
I really liked having Felton comments here. It gave a measure of Inquisition in a form that u just would not get attending a demo room presentation where attendees cannot compare notes, nor does the vendor have the chance to ignore the questions that they do not like.. It gave me some ideas on the wicked line break bars and other methods he trades. I probably never would of stumbled across on my own.. I would welcome all vendors to the forum.. Everyone already knows a vendor is trying to sell u something, so what are we being protected from?

the question is not....so what are we being protected from?


most vendors, i'll venture to guess--more than 90% of them, are so full of it, i would quickly quit bmt;

if and when big mike allows them en mass to present whatever to elite members. i know for sure that they are many elite members here who could comfortably out perform 90% of those trading software promoters and traders training gurus or whatever names they want to call themselves.

however, in reference to felton, he is a rare exception amongst vendors. i personally knew for sure that his trading setups as presented to bmt members, are applicable, tradeable and if and when properly and timely applied, would be profitable with consistency.

i knew for sure that his setups work, 'cause his trading module as presented here was quite similar to one of my own trading setups which has been productive and profitable.

i have no biz relationship nor any commercial interest in or with felton traders training and education in whatever shape or form.

more importantly, as i recalled, roger himself always welcomed members of bmt to his trading room free of charge which has been a big plus for those progressing toward trading for profit with any degree of consistency.

however, to allow any and all vendors on board to hog their practically worthless wares, would be something that most traders with bmt would not tolerate, i am quite certain of that. any way, that is just my personal one man opinion which could differ significantly from big mike and other much more experienced traders around, K? cheers everyone.

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  #272 (permalink)
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gg80108 View Post
I really liked having Felton comments here. It gave a measure of Inquisition in a form that u just would not get attending a demo room presentation where attendees cannot compare notes, nor does the vendor have the chance to ignore the questions that they do not like.. It gave me some ideas on the wicked line break bars and other methods he trades. I probably never would of stumbled across on my own.. I would welcome all vendors to the forum.. Everyone already knows a vendor is trying to sell u something, so what are we being protected from?

Jealousy, perhaps? I don't know... just brainstorming here.

Cheers.... H

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  #273 (permalink)
Identify Evaluate Execute
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nakachalet View Post
the question is not....so what are we being protected from?


however, in reference to felton, he is a rare exception amongst vendors. i personally knew for sure that his trading setups as presented to bmt members, are applicable, tradeable and if and when properly and timely applied, would be profitable with consistency.

Hi, I've had a separate PC running 24 hours a day 7 days a week testing retail indicators including CCI, MACD, Stochastics, moving averages, RSI, Fibs etc. This involves millions of iterations of backtesting/forward testing and advanced financial analysis in excel. I concluded that none of them will provide consistent profitability over the long term.

In fact, I concluded that 95% of traders who make trading decisions using these indicators will either lose a large chunk of their capital or all of it. The problem is identifying the market changing from trend to chop is in my opinion an art and not a science. Filtering mechanisms are therefore of little help. Therefore Roger's system will get killed in chop. After all, the market is balanced 70-80% of the time.

So I strongly disagree with your statement that futures.io (formerly BMT) traders would be consistently profitable with Roger's system. My limited experience with people like Roger who say they successfully trade these retail indicator type setups is their success has come from their ability to read price action by default after trading for 10+ years. It's not because of the indicators themselves work, it's because they themselves have evolved without realizing they even need the indicators. In any case I have yet to see one single vendor who has offered to provide audited financial statements as to their consistent profitability. I have asked a few vendors but nobody has complied. Why is that? Because they fall into the 95% of losing traders mentioned above. As a licensed CPA I would welcome the opportunity to go through these documents in minute detail.

This is no reflection on Roger as he seems a nice guy, but the only vendors worth having in the forum in my opinion are those that are able to provide traders with the tools and insight on how to measure imbalances in market supply and demand and the ability to read market structure. If you can do those two things at a proficient or advanced level and have your psychology and money management under control then the chances of becoming a highly successful trader are much greater.

Cheers
DJ


Last edited by djkiwi; May 25th, 2012 at 02:07 AM.
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  #274 (permalink)
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djkiwi View Post
In any case I have yet to see one single vendor who has offered to providing audited financial statements as to their consistently profitability. I have asked a few vendors but nobody has complied. Why is that? Because they fall into the 95% of losing traders mentioned above. As a licensed CPA I would welcome the opportunity to go through these documents in minute detail.

Cheers
DJ

I am not addressing any vendor specifically. But, if a vendor starts to show actual real performance reports I believe he would have to be licensed. Its not that simple to release real results to the public without having strong legal consequences.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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  #275 (permalink)
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djkiwi View Post
Hi, I've had a separate PC running 24 hours a day 7 days a week testing retail indicators including CCI, MACD, Stochastics, moving averages, RSI, Fibs etc. This involves millions of iterations of backtesting/forward testing and advanced financial analysis in excel. I concluded that none of them will provide consistent profitability over the long term.

If you take a look @ what they teach day traders in prop shops, you'll certainly have an answer as to how effective these things are from their perspective.

What all this stuff offers is absolution from making a trading decision. If you have 3 things that 'line up' - then the actual decision is not in your hands. This is the allure. No-one wants to use discretion.

Funnily enough - the quest to find a 'magic setup' that will work forever based on some 'secret' indicator or combination of well know indicators is a much longer journey than hunkering down and just learning how to trade with discretion.

I have a friend who recently joined a prop shop. He is in training, they are paying him to train and will fund him when he shows he has 'got it'.

The amount of time that they expect a trainee to go from zero to trading 1-2 lots of their money?

12 weeks

Of course, teh interweb gurus generally claim it takes 10,000 hours....

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  #276 (permalink)
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i am so very pleased to have someone with so much experimental experiences to review


jkiwi;d224632
Hi, I've had a separate PC running 24 hours a day 7 days a week testing retail indicators including CCI, MACD, Stochastics, moving averages, RSI, Fibs etc. This involves millions of iterations of backtesting/forward testing and advanced financial analysis in excel. I concluded that none of them will provide consistent profitability over the long term.

In fact, I concluded that 95% of traders who make trading decisions using these indicators will either lose a large chunk of their capital or all of it. The problem is identifying the market changing from trend to chop is in my opinion an art and not a science. Filtering mechanisms are therefore of little help. Therefore Roger's system will get killed in chop. After all, the market is balanced 70-80% of the time.

So I strongly disagree with your statement that futures.io (formerly BMT) traders would be consistently profitable with Roger's system. My limited experience with people like Roger who say they successfully trade these retail indicator type setups is their success has come from their ability to read price action by default after trading for 10+ years. It's not because of the indicators themselves work, it's because they themselves have evolved without realizing they even need the indicators. In any case I have yet to see one single vendor who has offered to providing audited financial statements as to their consistently profitability. I have asked a few vendors but nobody has complied. Why is that? Because they fall into the 95% of losing traders mentioned above. As a licensed CPA I would welcome the opportunity to go through these documents in minute detail.

This is no reflection on Roger as he seems a nice guy, but the only vendors worth having in the forum in my opinion are those that are able to provide traders with the tools and insight on how to measure imbalances in market supply and demand and the ability to read market structure. If you can do those two things at a proficient or advanced level and have your psychology and money management under control control then the chances of becoming a highly successful trader are much greater.

Cheers
DJ

@jkiwi / dj

i am so very pleased that at long last within bmt itself, there emerges a person who is bold enough to tell us that the majority of what we use to trade with so very gleefully, happily and proudly, are practically useless....

specifically, it is categorically stated that.... In fact, I concluded that 95% of traders who make trading decisions using these indicators will either lose a large chunk of their capital or all of it....

alright, i'll call you my friend since you are also a member of bmt, OK?

my questions would center around:

1--what you stated and

2--what you claimed and

3--what you summarily concluded on feltonian setups, alright?
------------------

Q1--you stated....I concluded that none of them will provide consistent profitability over the long term.

what did you based your statistical analyses on, to be able to come to that conclusive summation?

pls do show us some raw data used, alright?

Q2--you stated....In fact, I concluded that 95% of traders who make trading decisions using these indicators will either lose a large chunk of their capital or all of it.

my friend, pls do share your raw data again, the data you used to statistically come to the conclusion that 95% of traders would lose their capital or all of it....OK?

in terms of statistical research and application, how did you arrive at that conclusive summation, pls?

Q3--you stated....Therefore Roger's system will get killed in chop.

my bold friend, how many days did you attend his trading rooms, pls?

and the data that you used to come to the conclusion stated above, were gathered from which session(s) in felton trading room, pls?

i am truly concerned regarding your statistical sample gathered from felton trading room, if you were in his room long enough or often enough in order to claim or to appraise your study or tentative conclusion as statistically valid and reliable with any degree of applicability at all?

it would be nice to see your data used in your claim, so we too could join you to acclaim your conclusion and summation as valid and reliable, K?

what do you think, my friend? have you been in his room often enough to gather unbiased data used in your personal comparison and study?

Q4--....So I strongly disagree with your statement that futures.io (formerly BMT) traders would be consistently profitable with Roger's system.

my friend, just what do you know about feltonian (a new name i just coined for roger, hope he'll like it) setups?

do you really have any PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE about feltonian or the theoretical framework behind the setups, pls?

Q5--....In any case I have yet to see one single vendor who has offered to providing audited financial statements as to their consistently profitability. I have asked a few vendors but nobody has complied. Why is that? Because they fall into the 95% of losing traders mentioned above.

pls do excuse the very crude comparison here OK?

just because a wise old frog at the bottom of a well tells all his great great grand children that the sky is round and very small indeed.... which is in line with every frog living at the bottom of that well. for every frog could see the sky is indeed round and tiny in compare with the bottom of their own well....

my friend, just because you are not cognizant of something outside of your immediate sphere of influence, that does not mean (or does it in your case?) that certain event does not exist nor that it could not exist--because you yourself are unfamiliar with it or perhaps even are ignorant of such possibility...? not calling you 'ignorant' OK?

Q6--you stated....As a licensed CPA I would welcome the opportunity to go through these documents in minute detail.

as a licensed cpa, you really ought to conduct yourself more professionally than what you've shown here so far, my friend.

my friend, being licensed as a cpa is not an easy task to come by, even though some states do not care much about the standard of professionalism in accounting, but with you it could be an exception, alright?

to be honest now, and i do hope you and everyone else here would agree that being a license holder is one thing and it is so far distance from being competent which is another monkey altogether, don't you agree, my friend?

now it is your turn to enlighten us with your facts and figures used in your summation et al, OK? only if you want to share, OK? you are under no duress nor pressure to do anything OK?

however, if you only have verbiage but no RELEVANT DATA USED to justify your conclusion then pls do not bother to respond, alright? because talk and verbiage as everyone knows, is cheap. and it is particularly cheap when it has to do with trading, OK, my friend. and there is nothing personal involved here either, K? and thx much for reading.

my humble apology to all other members who have to suffer through all my rambling and infringing upon your time and space. have a wonderful and safe weekend, everyone.

SHALOM and enjoy the attachment without any recourse whatever.

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Last edited by nakachalet; May 25th, 2012 at 03:43 PM.
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  #277 (permalink)
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DionysusToast View Post
If you take a look @ what they teach day traders in prop shops, you'll certainly have an answer as to how effective these things are from their perspective.

What all this stuff offers is absolution from making a trading decision. If you have 3 things that 'line up' - then the actual decision is not in your hands. This is the allure. No-one wants to use discretion.

Funnily enough - the quest to find a 'magic setup' that will work forever based on some 'secret' indicator or combination of well know indicators is a much longer journey than hunkering down and just learning how to trade with discretion.

I have a friend who recently joined a prop shop. He is in training, they are paying him to train and will fund him when he shows he has 'got it'.

The amount of time that they expect a trainee to go from zero to trading 1-2 lots of their money?

12 weeks

Of course, teh interweb gurus generally claim it takes 10,000 hours....

I think you must compare other things beyond time/hours.

It could be the case where prop shops have a designed a program in place run by experienced traders
addressing things that a trader might take months or years to discover on his/her own.

Most self-directed traders are ON THEIR OWN with a screen making mistakes on their OWN CAPITAL.
This makes the game completely different for the most of us.

Lastly, not all prop shops are a recipe of success, because I know quite a few in the industry who run them.
It took some of them quite a a few years to build a solid team.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.

Last edited by mattz; May 26th, 2012 at 10:21 AM.
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  #278 (permalink)
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How many have made it thread.

https://futures.io/psychology-money-management/3649-primary-source-income-how-many-have-made.html
From the score keeping on this thread, looks like most BM traders need some ideas, maybe from vendors?

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  #279 (permalink)
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Agreed. I for one can't learn to trade just from reading forums although there is great info here. My major weaknesses are on the psychological/emotional side of trading and that's where I think a mentor would really help. But consider my perspective - I am a finance/accounting manager in my full time job. I could have never done that job just by reading books/forums. I had to attend and graduate from college and learn my craft from professors. I guess that is what I am used to.

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  #280 (permalink)
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djkiwi View Post
Hi, I've had a separate PC running 24 hours a day 7 days a week testing retail indicators including CCI, MACD, Stochastics, moving averages, RSI, Fibs etc. This involves millions of iterations of backtesting/forward testing and advanced financial analysis in excel. I concluded that none of them will provide consistent profitability over the long term.

In fact, I concluded that 95% of traders who make trading decisions using these indicators will either lose a large chunk of their capital or all of it. The problem is identifying the market changing from trend to chop is in my opinion an art and not a science. Filtering mechanisms are therefore of little help. Therefore Roger's system will get killed in chop. After all, the market is balanced 70-80% of the time.

So I strongly disagree with your statement that futures.io (formerly BMT) traders would be consistently profitable with Roger's system. My limited experience with people like Roger who say they successfully trade these retail indicator type setups is their success has come from their ability to read price action by default after trading for 10+ years. It's not because of the indicators themselves work, it's because they themselves have evolved without realizing they even need the indicators. In any case I have yet to see one single vendor who has offered to provide audited financial statements as to their consistent profitability. I have asked a few vendors but nobody has complied. Why is that? Because they fall into the 95% of losing traders mentioned above. As a licensed CPA I would welcome the opportunity to go through these documents in minute detail.

This is no reflection on Roger as he seems a nice guy, but the only vendors worth having in the forum in my opinion are those that are able to provide traders with the tools and insight on how to measure imbalances in market supply and demand and the ability to read market structure. If you can do those two things at a proficient or advanced level and have your psychology and money management under control then the chances of becoming a highly successful trader are much greater.

Cheers
DJ

Post of the year....O well the first half anyway. Thank you Sir!

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