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Has anyone ever heard of Felton Trading? (www.feltontrading.com)


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Has anyone ever heard of Felton Trading? (www.feltontrading.com)

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  #231 (permalink)
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  #232 (permalink)
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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exiledgoblin View Post
It seems we are condemned to talk past each other. I did not say that I took personal responsibility for all of the students who might have failed my courses and I certainly did not take responsibility for the failures of the shirkers. On the other hand, if most of my students failed then my dean would certainly not have accepted the argument that they were all shirkers.

The analogy between a college degree and career success and success after trader training is limited at best. There is a much tighter connection between training and desired outcome in the case of training traders. But even colleges track their alumni and do statistical correlations between earning a degree and career success. So there is nothing ridiculous about finding out how students make out after college. Its done all the time -- all over the world. In your case it would be trivial to survey your students without demanding brokerage statements. Methinks the mentor doth protest too much and too loudly.

A better analogy would be specific technical training that is skill based. I currently work in the IT industry. Not everyone who takes training from me on large enterprise software systems gets it. But 80% of the people in my courses do pass the course, where the conditions for a pass is the demonstrated capacity to install, configure, and administer the systems in question. Apparently trading is different. Most trading students pay good money for instruction and fail to succeed as traders because by your account they are shirkers. Another serious possibility is that the skills are just not transferable.

The problem with your proposed question is that its a "heads I win tails you lose" proposition. How will we define serious dedicated students? Well they are the one's who succeed, of course. So the answer to your version of a good question is that all of the real, dedicated, committed students succeed and the ones who fail, well they just didn't try.

I'm simply asking a basic statistical question: In a given population we have to assume shirkers, workers, dummies, geniuses and so on. We can gerrymander the results by proclaiming the successful ones as the workers and the rest are the shirkers. But this is a self-serving and self-authenticating argument.

Instead we just do the math: we offer a specific course of study. In this case training in a specific task and methodology. If 5% get it and the others do not some of the failures will be attributable to shirking, etc. Some of the success will be attributable to natural genius, etc. Some of the success will be attributable to the training. But in the end a very low success rate can only be attributable to a knowledge transmission failure. The method is teachable only to a select few and the odds of being among the few are very poor. It's simple mathematics.

No one is suggesting that you don't offer quality instruction. But the evidence seems clear: assuming that you have good software, that your mentoring is first rate, that only some of the failure can be written off as lack of effort and commitment then the conclusion seems obvious -- successful trading can be taught to a select few and investing your money in the unlikely prospect that you will be one of the few (if only you try hard enough) is equivalent to buying a lottery ticket.

may i applaud you for an excellent summary of the effectiveness of any teaching and/or training organization that involves dispensing knowledge, skill et al to others, free or fee....

there are just too many traders training schools that naturally assume that when a learner fails to proceed to trade with profitability that the learner does not apply oneself, or that the learner just does not get it; among numerous other often cited reasons.

few operators of those traders training schools would admit that perhaps the success or failure of those learners who summarily must be interested to learn how to trade to profitability, otherwise why would they pay a handsome sums of several thousands u.s. dollars to enroll....; that whether they would become successful or not, also have a lot to do with the processes and methodologies of imparting and transferring imperative knowledge from top down....

personally, i assume that it is important for all those desiring to learn how to trade with profitability to remember that their own fierce desire to succeed as well as the teaching schools' teaching methodologies are equally important, in order for both entities to succeed toward trading with profitability.

well stated sir. much appreciated indeed.

....I'm simply asking a basic statistical question: In a given population we have to assume shirkers, workers, dummies, geniuses and so on. We can gerrymander the results by proclaiming the successful ones as the workers and the rest are the shirkers. But this is a self-serving and self-authenticating argument.

Instead we just do the math: we offer a specific course of study. In this case training in a specific task and methodology. If 5% get it and the others do not some of the failures will be attributable to shirking, etc. Some of the success will be attributable to natural genius, etc. Some of the success will be attributable to the training. But in the end a very low success rate can only be attributable to a knowledge transmission failure. The method is teachable only to a select few and the odds of being among the few are very poor. It's simple mathematics.
....

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  #233 (permalink)
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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Hapster View Post
You've got WAYYYY too much time on your hands, dude.

คุณจะได้มีเวลา WAYYYY มากเกินไปในมือของคุณครับ

hi hap

wrong again.... (เดาผิดอีกแล้ว เพื่อนเอ๊ย!).... LOL

but i am going to abide by mike's suggestion which will be good for everyone.

besides, mike is the host and everyone ought to comply, K?

cheers....

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  #234 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
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Mike

Thanks Mike. My phones are always open to any trader wishing to discuss any aspect of trading. This is a great forum and should be limited to the exchange of useful information. You have my committment to help keep it that way.

Roger

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  #235 (permalink)
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So...it's been a few months since I joined (see my original posting back in Nov and update in Dec probably).
I had at least a month's derailment with some personal things going on...that having been said, I've been turning the corner being consistent in making money in sim! I think one of the crucial aspects has been consistency in the training and mentoring...every day, I have been in the room, listening to Roger and Clint and their teachings. Often it's a repeat topic and that's perfect...helps it sink in and reinforce. Their training goes beyond just the indicators...it taps into psychology which is huge for any trader, and also the more mundane aspects like journaling, discipline, daily routine. I'm very grateful to have found them...don't know that I'd have gotten this far by now without them.

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  #236 (permalink)
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I have been in Roger's room for a few days and liked it. It seems he is a good trader and the methods he uses make sense from what I could tell.

I didn't continue because the emphasis in his rooms seems to be on scalping, something I was not aware of before I registered for the free trial. I don't like to scalp for 5 ticks, just too stressful.


Of course, divergences appear on any time frame so maybe it would have made sense for me to stay.

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  #237 (permalink)
Chicago, IL
 
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Hi Seeker,
I used to feel the same way. The first very pricey futures class I took (from an options education company!) taught you to manually figure out support and resistance, buy off support, sell off resistance, and let your winners run. That's great. Until it turns on you and you give it all back. Or you think it will turn and you cut your profit short. The market is so unpredictable these days that I'm a total convert to scalping. If I can find a 5 or 10 tick winner with a high degree of predictability (and I can...75 to 90%)...then why not? I will often put on 2, take off one at a predetermined 5 or 10 tick profit, depending on the market, and let the 2nd run for a while with a b/e stop. If you catch a bit of a trend, you can take many more ticks than 5 or 10. And Felton's indicators are really set up for finding these scalps with a high degree of predictability. I, personally, have even had a few 100% days. Some other rooms I have tried out are going for 5 or 10 ticks with a horrible degree of predictability and huge stops....that's a recipe for disaster.

One thing I should point out, however...is that you can use the FT system for trending as well....you don't HAVE to only scalp. I personally, find that I'd rather take a fairly sure scalp and if I want to trend, let another one run on the house's money.

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  #238 (permalink)
Victoria, TX
 
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TheSeeker View Post
I have been in Roger's room for a few days and liked it. It seems he is a good trader and the methods he uses make sense from what I could tell.

I didn't continue because the emphasis in his rooms seems to be on scalping, something I was not aware of before I registered for the free trial. I don't like to scalp for 5 ticks, just too stressful.


Of course, divergences appear on any time frame so maybe it would have made sense for me to stay.

You're certainly welcome to come back in as often as you like. The FT System works for trend trading, swing and position trading as well as scalping so it's probably my fault you missed that. Although I do catch trends when they are really high potential moves, I normally just scalp for 5 to 20 ticks.

Never allow yourself to "be sold" on any trading system. Quick decisions are almost always a mistake. If a system is right for you, you will know. But you can learn a lot about trading by simply watching and asking lots of questions...and it doesn't cost a dime.

Roger

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  #239 (permalink)
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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;191655
I have been in Roger's room for a few days and liked it. It seems he is a good trader and the methods he uses make sense from what I could tell.

I didn't continue because the emphasis in his rooms seems to be on scalping, something I was not aware of before I registered for the free trial. I don't like to scalp for 5 ticks, just too stressful.


Of course, divergences appear on any time frame so maybe it would have made sense for me to stay.

@TheSeeker

a serious trader would consider consistent profitable trades of 4+ tics each click of the order, quite acceptable, in his/her repertoire; especially for someone who has not been in the trading pool with the sharks for a few years.

alright, theseeker, if the name were changed to other than SCALP, would that make any different in your trading perception and acceptance of such trading system, pls?

if i were learning how to trade, i would welcome a consist 5+ tics profit for each click of the mouse.

furthermore, for such a generous offer for bmt trader to return as often as a trader likes--to watch and learn from an established trading room, i would immediately jump on such generosity.

besides, many a time, starting out as a scalp trade, the scalp position would loom into longer terms position as well.

in my opinion, if trading for 5 tics is stressful, then trading for a full point would it or won't it be even more stressful, pls?

i am by no means trying to challenge you nor to discourage you.... but just like you to rethink the concept of profitability, K?

from my personal experience, it is much much more stressful to trade for a full point or a few points. generally, as a trader tries to trade for greater profitability each session, the stake and the risk are correspondingly greater as well.

even if a trader mastered all the trading setups, there is to be mastered from this trading forum or others; there is still no guarantee that he/she would survive with the sharks in real time.

theseeker, there are plenty of greater traders and trading advices around here which can ultimately help you and others to trade more proficiently and profitably. hope you would have the patient to seek that golden needle in the hay stack. wishing you the best in trading. you can learn lots from roger's trading room plus many many good logical trading advices as well. <no, i am not in biz with roger, nor have any financial interest in his biz, ok. just like to give him credit where it is due>

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  #240 (permalink)
Germany
 
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My problem with scalping for 5 ticks is that the reward to risk will be usually lower than 1. You'll need a high win rate to overcome the poorer R:R.

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