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TEN-THOUSAND IN EDUCATION, FINALLY PAYING OFF

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  #71 (permalink)
new york
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: mb trading
Trading: 6e
 
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Posts: 184 since Feb 2010


monpere View Post
Do you guys use one of the market profile tools like I/RT, Market Delta, etc.? What do you think of the market profile-ish indicators, like gomi's market profile indy, and dValueArea indy, which are based on volume at price, but do not use TPO's? I use dValueArea, and have developed a couple of setups using it, but I've never been able to observe price bouncing of the VAH/VAL consistently, or high/low volume nodes consistently, through all the historical data I've looked at, so I just dismissed it (I only looked at it on ETF's). What are the main things you guys personally look for when using Market Profile?

I have been thought by Reza to look at several M.P.s( 1 minute) and judge in which direction the POC is heading, that indicates the longterm trend. I may blend the day and nite profiles together to get a better long term outlook.

I look at the tops and bottoms of each MP's distribution to guage the longer term Resistance and Support

Next the width of each Value area and if the close of the day was inside Value area or outside.
Then I look for failed Range extensions and minus development along with Ledges to decide who is in control.
In the morning, I am looking at the initial balance and the lengh of the Range extension to determine if the market is showing signs that today wll be ranging or trending day behavior, and where the TPO's are relative to the open which hints at which direction the market may head within the first 1.5 hours. Volume distribution in also important, however Reza discounts it alot, says because of program-trading, volume no longer is a robust indicator of momentum.

Of course I use a stochastics and keltner channel to confirm a trade before entry.

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  #72 (permalink)
Germany
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MT4, StrategyRunner
Trading: ES,EUR/USD,Oil
 
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Posts: 123 since Dec 2010
Thanks: 68 given, 68 received


monpere View Post
I use dValueArea, and have developed a couple of setups using it, but I've never been able to observe price bouncing of the VAH/VAL consistently, or high/low volume nodes consistently, through all the historical data I've looked at, so I just dismissed it (I only looked at it on ETF's). What are the main things you guys personally look for when using Market Profile?

Like FT71 said, these levels are where you should do business. You need to observe pice action/indicators/market delta or whatever you use to make the decision, however.

The levels themselves are not enough to pull the trigger, also, there are too many of them and they depend on the look back period, so it's still tricky.

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  #73 (permalink)
Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,880 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,511 given, 4,954 received



monpere View Post
Do you guys use one of the market profile tools like I/RT, Market Delta, etc.? What do you think of the market profile-ish indicators, like gomi's market profile indy, and dValueArea indy, which are based on volume at price, but do not use TPO's? I use dValueArea, and have developed a couple of setups using it, but I've never been able to observe price bouncing of the VAH/VAL consistently, or high/low volume nodes consistently, through all the historical data I've looked at, so I just dismissed it (I only looked at it on ETF's). What are the main things you guys personally look for when using Market Profile?

I use MarketDelta but I/RT is the samething except for the footprint but anyway. I do not use Gomi's stuff as it is not really supported by anyone particularly. When i need to resolve a problem i usually need it NOW so the other platforms solve this problem also there are so many videos available for I/RT and MD which is not the case with Gomi's work. Also, i use DTN Market Access for backfilling which is a cheap way to get historical datas with 30 days of volume information. That's an option not available for Ninja. One more feature i like about MD and I/RT is the possibility to use them as a servor using the DDE protocol. So i am using that feature to update Excel and do some processing there. I use the Market Profile in my own personal way but mainly to know where clusters of volume or empty islands form along with the usual VAH/VAL and POC both the TPO and Volume flavors short, medium and long term. I use the longer term to have an idea where business was done or locate balance areas, large nodes etc. I take a note of these items and update my Excel accordingly once in a while. Finally, that's true that the VAH/VAL 'seems' to work better with instruments that do not move a lot like the ES but i like to see where are ledges and singles which can only be seen in the TPO format. Market Profile is a tool to locate areas where responsive activity is taking place as well as initiative activity so in that sense the visual arrangement of the tool lends itself well for this type of observation. Finally, althout i use the footprint to take the order flow into account i use it at very specific time when things are too fuzzy to see otherwise. However, the most important tool to me is the dynamic profile that comes with MD or I/RT. i have not seen that tool anywhere else. With it, you can draw a dynamic profile say of the last leg of a swing, this way you don't need to use a mathematical tool like the Fibonacci tool to see where a pullback is likely to go, you can objectively see where initiative activity took place and where one group is more likely to kick in again to defend that level. That's basically the things i like to observe with this MP tool.

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  #74 (permalink)
Milan (I)
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker: Kinetick
Trading: FDAX,6E,CL,YM,NQ,ES
 
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Posts: 1,653 since Oct 2010
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trendisyourfriend View Post
I use MarketDelta but I/RT is the samething except for the footprint but anyway. I do not use Gomi's stuff as it is not really supported by anyone particularly. When i need to resolve a problem i usually need it NOW so the other platforms solve this problem also there are so many videos available for I/RT and MD which is not the case with Gomi's work. Also, i use DTN Market Access for backfilling which is a cheap way to get historical datas with 30 days of volume information. That's an option not available for Ninja. One more feature i like about MD and I/RT is the possibility to use them as a servor using the DDE protocol. So i am using that feature to update Excel and do some processing there. I use the Market Profile in my own personal way but mainly to know where clusters of volume or empty islands form along with the usual VAH/VAL and POC both the TPO and Volume flavors short, medium and long term. I use the longer term to have an idea where business was done or locate balance areas, large nodes etc. I take a note of these items and update my Excel accordingly once in a while. Finally, that's true that the VAH/VAL 'seems' to work better with instruments that do not move a lot like the ES but i like to see where are ledges and singles which can only be seen in the TPO format. Market Profile is a tool to locate areas where responsive activity is taking place as well as initiative activity so in that sense the visual arrangement of the tool lends itself well for this type of observation. Finally, althout i use the footprint to take the order flow into account i use it at very specific time when things are too fuzzy to see otherwise. However, the most important tool to me is the dynamic profile that comes with MD or I/RT. i have not seen that tool anywhere else. With it, you can draw a dynamic profile say of the last leg of a swing, this way you don't need to use a mathematical tool like the Fibonacci tool to see where a pullback is likely to go, you can objectively see where initiative activity took place and where one group is more likely to kick in again to defend that level. That's basically the things i like to observe with this MP tool.

I understand you prefer other methods but I think you're not fair with Gomi. I personally use GomCD to check my positions vs trend and to locate big players. With regards to documentation there is plenty of it in the wiki section and dedicated threads; videos are more fancy but not detailed as a guide or manual. The fact that Gomi staff is supported by his inventor is a great advantage and he is very fast and always there for an answer; last but not least it is all free and open source.

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  #75 (permalink)
UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Mirus/Zen
Trading: Futures - bonds, currencies, index
 
Posts: 288 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 70 given, 268 received


bobbyacim View Post
Dear Xeno,

But seriously, for the past 6 years I have bought and studied every "squiggly" line indicator, course, method, system out there with no better trading results than a flip of a coin.

Statistics is a branch of mathamatics, and although the market participants will not bestow a perfect BELL-CURVE graphic when it comes to market profile. I truly believe that it DOES OFFER AN EDGE. And to me;

If you'd come on this thread saying that you'd discovered MP and stats and you really liked them and that you'd found a good teacher; and that early signs in trading were encouraging, but it was early days, then there would have been no issue. But you came on saying you'd transformed your trading, you were now profitable and that your teacher was a 'master'. You then dropped the bombshell that you'd made only nine trades.

This is not just a question of you being over-enthusiastic. There are real issues here. There are newbies who will go out and buy courses and pay people money based on you saying you are profitable with this system.

I'm happy for you that you've found something you like, but the crux is this. You say you are profitable. I think all of us know when we use that word that we mean consistently profitable as a trader, not that a small set of trades is profitable.

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  #76 (permalink)
new york
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: mb trading
Trading: 6e
 
bobbyacim's Avatar
 
Posts: 184 since Feb 2010


Xeno View Post
If you'd come on this thread saying that you'd discovered MP and stats and you really liked them and that you'd found a good teacher; and that early signs in trading were encouraging, but it was early days, then there would have been no issue. But you came on saying you'd transformed your trading, you were now profitable and that your teacher was a 'master'. You then dropped the bombshell that you'd made only nine trades.

This is not just a question of you being over-enthusiastic. There are real issues here. There are newbies who will go out and buy courses and pay people money based on you saying you are profitable with this system.

I'm happy for you that you've found something you like, but the crux is this. You say you are profitable. I think all of us know when we use that word that we mean consistently profitable as a trader, not that a small set of trades is profitable.

Here are two trades from last night and the setup I rely on exclusivly for my entry trigger, but not for my trade strategy!!!

CHART IS A 1 RANGE

Firstly, I have a 200ema(RED) and 100 ema(Blue) for longer term trend direction that under no circumstances WILL I TAKE TRADE AGAINST!

If I'm looking to short, BOTh have to be pointing DOWN, 200 MUST BE above 100, and spreading apart EVEN SLIGHTLY!

If the distance between them is narrowing, that is a caution; if they are horizontal (as confirmed by using my cross-hair pointer as a measure of how horizontal they are) THAT IS AN EXTREME CAUTION.

Then, I only use the fast K of Stochastics(7,9,3) for main heads-up, WITH LEVELS OF 65 AND 35, WHEN k CROSSES DOWN PAST 65, this is main trigger ( The cross must occur with a nice rounding EFFECT above the 65 level)

The standard MACD is my secondary CONFIRMATION; I omit the histogram completely. The Macd CROSS must cross shortly after the main Stochastic cross.

Nice extra: The Bollenger Bands are starting to narrow near my expected entry and candlesticks are sitting on one of the bands.

The setup is very good, however I DO NOT RELY ON SQUIGGLY LINE INDICATORS FOR THE DECISION TO TAKE THE TRADE, I RELY ON MY MARKET PROFILE SCREEN THAT SITS ACTIVE RIGHT NEXT TO MY TRADING SCREEN.

2011-04-14_1724 - bobbyacim's library

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  #77 (permalink)
 
 
Posts: 1,081 since May 2010

you can post your monthly broker p&l just here in a message, that's ok for me

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  #78 (permalink)
new york
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: mb trading
Trading: 6e
 
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Posts: 184 since Feb 2010


MetalTrade View Post
you can post your monthly broker p&l just here in a message, that's ok for me

Unfortunately,

I just joined the approx 96% of traders who lose money daytrading, AGAIN!!!
Had several weeks of slow and progressively succesful trades for 1-2 points using 1:2 risk reward ratio.
AND in the last few days, I LOST ALL MY PROFITS!!!!

Backtracking... looks like my trading sessions became very choppy and after a few loses, instead of stopping for the day, I fell into the REVENGE TRADING MODE.

OH WELL, LOOKS LIKE AFTER 5 YEARS OF GRUELING STUDY, AND 5000 HOURS OF SCREEN TIME, THE ONLY THING I HAVE ACHIEVED IS THAT INSTEAD OF LOSING MY ACCOUNT QUICKLY, NOW, I LOSE IT SLOWLY, BIT BY BIT.....

I AM NOW GOING TO ONLY TRADE THE LONDON OPEN FOR THE FIRST 1/2 AND WILL ONLY TAKE A BREAKOUT OF THE OPENING RANGE WHICH M.P. APPEARS TO LEND ITSELF TO. IF THIS DOES NOT RECOVER MY LOSES, I AM GOING TO BREAK MY LAPTOP INTO A MILLION PIECES, SHRUG OFF 5 YEARS OF MY LIFE AND FORGET COMPLETELY ABOUT TRADING!!!!!

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  #79 (permalink)
 
 
Posts: 1,081 since May 2010

bobby, thanks for your honesty

i appreciate it, kudos to you

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  #80 (permalink)
Honolulu, Hawaii
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: ATC/TT, AMP/Zen-Fire, AMP/CQG
Trading: TF
 
bluemele's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,547 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 3,803 given, 2,833 received



bobbyacim View Post
Unfortunately,
lI just joined the approx 96% of traders who lose money daytrading, AGAIN!!!
Had several weeks of slow and progressively succesful trades for 1-2 points using 1:2 risk reward ratio.
AND in the last few days, I LOST ALL MY PROFITS!!!!

Backtracking, looks like my trading session became very choppy and after a few loses, instread of stopping for the day, I fell into the REVENGE TRADING MODE.

OH WELL, LOOKS LIKE AFTER 5 YEARS OF GRUELING STUDY, AND 5000 HOURS OF SCREEN TIME, THE ONLY THING I HAVE ACHIEVED IS THAT INSTEAD OF LOSING MY ACCOUNT QUICKLY, NOW, I LOSE IT SLOWLY, BIT BY BIT.....

I AM NOW GOING TO ONLY TRADE THE LONDON OPEN FOR THE FIRST 1/2 AND WILL ONLY TAKE A BREAKOUT OF THE OPENING RANGE WHICH M.P. APPEARS TO LEND ITSELF TO. IF THIS DOES NOT RECOVER MY LOSES, I AM GOING TO BREAK MY LAPTOP INTO A MILLION PIECES, SHRUG OFF 5 YEARS OF MY LIFE AND FORGET COMPLETELY ABOUT TRADING!!!!!

Well, I hope you did other things with your life during those 5 years.

Not to be a wise ass, but money isn't everything.

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