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TEN-THOUSAND IN EDUCATION, FINALLY PAYING OFF
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TEN-THOUSAND IN EDUCATION, FINALLY PAYING OFF

  #251 (permalink)
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Honolulu, Hawaii
 
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jstnbrg View Post

I never would have gotten into the futures business if I hadn't known for certain that it was possible to make a lot of money doing it. I had plenty of career choices open to me. That's why I am sympathetic to all those "loners" out there who have not yet made it and are looking for proof. I had my proof and it resulted in a very fortuitous career choice. It took me three years in the pits before I really "made it" and there is no way I would have stuck out that career choice in the prime of my life if I hadn't had many many examples of success both to show me that it is possible and how it is done.

I think for me this sums it up nicely. That is exactly the point, and the whole point is that showing your statement isn't 'for you'. And in my opinion you have a right to not do anything just like you have a right not to contribute.

For instance, there are a couple journal/trade threads that are throwing out numbers and saying, "I did this trade" and or "I am doing that trade etc.." without knowing if these people are legit or just like to bullshit themselves along with everyone else. Not that knowing would then make you say, "hell yah, I am in!" but maybe a "well, this guy seems to be consistent and truly profitable which is inspiring and maybe I can glean something here."

I realized we have had this conversation at least 5 times over the last several months. Obviously we should agree to disagree, but for me, trading can also be a spectator sport. If a trader put on a trade and made $1M from that trade, I would want to watch. Am I following that method, NOPE, do I intend to learn that method, NOPE, but it sure is fun to watch, much like any sport or performance that shows mastery.

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  #252 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
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bobbyacim View Post
Here are 6 screen shots of a live trade I took this A.M. on the emini S&P around 7:30 EST , I usually try to avoid the S&P, but I saw a clear Hidden divergence between the price and BOTH indicators. There is a double bottom (see if you can spot it) and a lower low on the Stoch as well as a lower low on the CCI. This may have been a sign that a slightly larger SL may be in order.

.
Looked like a good trade:

1. Trend was up- but not too strong as evidenced by the top keltner channel was FLAT also notice a first lower low on price.
2. Stoch D & K turned up from the oversold area and ready to cross- in hindsight I should have waited for a solid cross from the K above the D
3. CCI curled up from the oversold area - maybe should have waited for CCI cross of zero line??
4. The ATR Stoploss appeared ONLY 2 ticks BELOW the Trigger bar; very low risk trade!!!!!!

ENTERED at 1330, keep an eye on the TP at 1332 until screen shot #6!

Took the buy, but not with my usual 5 tick arbitrary stop, NO; I used the A.T.R. stoploss indicator I recently added
Well, kept using the A.T.R stoploss, but I got stopped out anyway.
And, as you can see the price did reach 1332 and above. So if my stoploss was slightly larger, I could have walked with 2 points.

LESSON LEARNED: I have just increased the ATR settings from 1.5 to 1.7 on the emini S&P

Any/all critiques are welcomed on this trade...

1) I hope those $80 you lost wasn't real money. Next time trade demo/sim or if you insist trading with live money trade mini/micro lots of ES using CFDs. I know one broker is AVA where you can trade $0.125/$1.25 per tick. You will lose a whole lot less and remain in the game longer this way. Practising trading $50 per point is too expensive for a beginner unless you're a millionaire.

2) The 6E and ES are quite possibly one of the most brutal trading instruments especially if you are trying to earn a living day trading them. People tear each others to shreds in those markets. You get the most liquidity and lowest spreads but you get 2 instruments that rarely perform well on technicals alone. In my opinion Crude Oil and Silver are much much easier to trade.

3) I don't know anyone who trades solely based on divergence, cci, atr, etc. Use that maybe as a confirmation.

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  #253 (permalink)
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bluemele View Post
I think for me this sums it up nicely. That is exactly the point, and the whole point is that showing your statement isn't 'for you'. And in my opinion you have a right to not do anything just like you have a right not to contribute.

For instance, there are a couple journal/trade threads that are throwing out numbers and saying, "I did this trade" and or "I am doing that trade etc.." without knowing if these people are legit or just like to bullshit themselves along with everyone else. Not that knowing would then make you say, "hell yah, I am in!" but maybe a "well, this guy seems to be consistent and truly profitable which is inspiring and maybe I can glean something here."

I realized we have had this conversation at least 5 times over the last several months. Obviously we should agree to disagree, but for me, trading can also be a spectator sport. If a trader put on a trade and made $1M from that trade, I would want to watch. Am I following that method, NOPE, do I intend to learn that method, NOPE, but it sure is fun to watch, much like any sport or performance that shows mastery.

Here's a question, what would be the result if every member on futures.io (formerly BMT) just showed their broker statement, instead of sharing their method, or gave any advice? Just a string of threads with broker statements proving they or are or are not profitable. Wouldn't that be inspiration * 1000, but learning * 0.

Ok, let's make it more practical. What if, Bike Mike changed the rules of the forum and said only people who provide their statements can post? What would happen then? Do you think the amount of what you learn from futures.io (formerly BMT) would increase, decrease or remain the same? Do you think that proof would change the path of your trading career? Do you think 1000 profitable broker statements is going to motivate you enough to change your counter trend strategy with a 200 tick stop and 2 tick target to become profitable? I assume if proof is that important the answer to that question would be yes.

Well, I would suggest that, if we got 1000 profitable broker statements posted tomorrow, all the people asking for proof of profitability would be very satisfied and very inspired, but they would be exactly in the same place in their trading, they would just have tired eyes from reading 1000 broker statements.

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  #254 (permalink)
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bobbyacim View Post
Because unless you are definitively successful and profitable in your trading, you stand on weak ground to JUDGE conclusively why I or any of the other 30,000 readers on the forum are still struggling.

Ah, is that the reason you ignore so much of the advice on this thread? And then back the ridiculous proposal to have your forum status linked to your profitability. I can imagine profitable traders running a mile from this site, because the result would be people continually badgering them to be 'taught' their system, and people obsessed with greed hanging off their every word.

6 years experience and you think learning a lesson is increasing your stop from 1.5 atr to 1.7 atr (this is two pages after deciding to stop looking for the holy grail)

Until you know why that absolutely is the wrong way to learn, I guarantee you 99% you will never be consistently profitable. But of course feel free to completely ignore me since I'm uninterested in some macho, hero elevating, stamp of approval from my profit statements.

Truth is truth, and rubbish is rubbish, whoever writes it, and I don't need a piece of paper to be able to argue the point properly.

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  #255 (permalink)
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adaseb View Post
1) I hope those $80 you lost wasn't real money. Next time trade demo/sim or if you insist trading with live money trade mini/micro lots of ES using CFDs. I know one broker is AVA where you can trade $0.125/$1.25 per tick. You will lose a whole lot less and remain in the game longer this way. Practising trading $50 per point is too expensive for a beginner unless you're a millionaire.

2) The 6E and ES are quite possibly one of the most brutal trading instruments especially if you are trying to earn a living day trading them. People tear each others to shreds in those markets. You get the most liquidity and lowest spreads but you get 2 instruments that rarely perform well on technicals alone. In my opinion Crude Oil and Silver are much much easier to trade.

3) I don't know anyone who trades solely based on divergence, cci, atr, etc. Use that maybe as a confirmation.

Thanks for the input. I have 5 years at this and over 5000 hours. Thats why I've been trading at 12.50 per tick.
I was trading 3 contracts, until after 15 trades, I incurred a string of losses. so after 21 trades I am down 2K.

FYI, Traders international award winning setup is pure divergence
Roger Felton is divergence
several other big name courses also teach it.

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  #256 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
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monpere View Post
Here's a question, what would be the result if every member on futures.io (formerly BMT) just showed their broker statement, instead of sharing their method, or gave any advice? Just a string of threads with broker statements proving they or are or are not profitable. Wouldn't that be inspiration * 1000, but learning * 0.

Ok, let's make it more practical. What if, Bike Mike changed the rules of the forum and said only people who provide their statements can post? What would happen then? Do you think the amount of what you learn from futures.io (formerly BMT) would increase, decrease or remain the same? Do you think that proof would change the path of your trading career? Do you think 1000 profitable broker statements is going to motivate you enough to change your counter trend strategy with a 200 tick stop and 2 tick target to become profitable? I assume if proof is that important the answer to that question would be yes.

Well, I would suggest that, if we got 1000 profitable broker statements posted tomorrow, all the people asking for proof of profitability would be very satisfied and very inspired, but they would be exactly in the same place in their trading, they would just have tired eyes from reading 1000 broker statements.

Put in the most simplest of terms; I feel a lot more comfortable taking advice about money and life from someone who has proven his reasoning in live situations. I.E.
If he's flying the plane I'm on, I'd like to know he has actual air time.
If he is giving me financial advice, he has actually made someone money with it.
If he is pulling my wisdom tooth, he has done it live.
It he's operating on me, he has actually operated on live bodies and NOT JUST ON A CADAVOR!

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  #257 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
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Xeno View Post
Ah, is that the reason you ignore so much of the advice on this thread? And then back the ridiculous proposal to have your forum status linked to your profitability. I can imagine profitable traders running a mile from this site, because the result would be people continually badgering them to be 'taught' their system, and people obsessed with greed hanging off their every word.

6 years experience and you think learning a lesson is increasing your stop from 1.5 atr to 1.7 atr (this is two pages after deciding to stop looking for the holy grail)

Until you know why that absolutely is the wrong way to learn, I guarantee you 99% you will never be consistently profitable. But of course feel free to completely ignore me since I'm uninterested in some macho, hero elevating, stamp of approval from my profit statements.

Truth is truth, and rubbish is rubbish, whoever writes it, and I don't need a piece of paper to be able to argue the point properly.

Dear Xeno,

Could you share with us, what you consider a better derived Stoploss than basing it on the prior candles Average true range. Maybe, even what has worked for you my dear friend.

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  #258 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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bobbyacim View Post
Dear Xeno,

Could you share with us, what you consider a better derived Stoploss than basing it on the prior candles Average true range. Maybe, even what has worked for you my dear friend.

I'm not Xeno, but I already told you what I believe is the best way to do it. Based on what price is doing. I call it price action. I suggest you read everything here, probably several times, so it sinks in:

https://futures.io/elite-circle/3506-elusive-price-action-how-trade.html

Watch the videos. Read all the shared charts and mark up. Then participate with your own charts and questions, and people will help you.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
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  #259 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
new york
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Xeno View Post
Ah, is that the reason you ignore so much of the advice on this thread? And then back the ridiculous proposal to have your forum status linked to your profitability. I can imagine profitable traders running a mile from this site, because the result would be people continually badgering them to be 'taught' their system, and people obsessed with greed hanging off their every word.

6 years experience and you think learning a lesson is increasing your stop from 1.5 atr to 1.7 atr (this is two pages after deciding to stop looking for the holy grail)

Until you know why that absolutely is the wrong way to learn, I guarantee you 99% you will never be consistently profitable. But of course feel free to completely ignore me since I'm uninterested in some macho, hero elevating, stamp of approval from my profit statements.

Truth is truth, and rubbish is rubbish, whoever writes it, and I don't need a piece of paper to be able to argue the point properly.

I see you oversimplyfy when it fits your needs. Yes increasing my stoploss was a very valuble lession for me the other day, only becouse that aspect of the trade alone, cost me the trade!!

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  #260 (permalink)
Elite Member
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bobbyacim View Post
Put in the most simplest of terms; I feel a lot more comfortable taking advice about money and life from someone who has proven his reasoning in live situations. I.E.
If he's flying the plane I'm on, I'd like to know he has actual air time.
If he is giving me financial advice, he has actually made someone money with it.
If he is pulling my wisdom tooth, he has done it live.
It he's operating on me, he has actually operated on live bodies and NOT JUST ON A CADAVOR!

Well given that you are still not profitable after 6 years and $10k, then every person you learned from, and every advice you have ever gotten must have been from un-profitable traders. Someone, just posted their broker statement on another thread which you referred to here. So, you finally got your proof. Why are you not closing this thread, and go learn from that guy, and him alone, since he is the only one who has shown you a statement. Everything else from anyone else on this site is rubbish. Am I way of base, or am I looking at things too logically.

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