Traders' opinion about PageTrader ES trading services (www.pagetrader.com) - futures io
futures io



Traders' opinion about PageTrader ES trading services (www.pagetrader.com)


Discussion in Trading Reviews and Vendors

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one researcher247 with 5 posts (18 thanks)
    2. looks_two GreatDane with 5 posts (5 thanks)
    3. looks_3 gvv1965 with 4 posts (9 thanks)
    4. looks_4 whyyo with 3 posts (1 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one MrOrange with 9 thanks per post
    2. looks_two thenckel with 8 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 researcher247 with 3.6 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 gvv1965 with 2.3 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 25,828 views
    2. thumb_up 54 thanks given
    3. group 10 followers
    1. forum 23 posts
    2. attach_file 0 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 125,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Traders' opinion about PageTrader ES trading services (www.pagetrader.com)

(login for full post details)
  #1 (permalink)
 gvv1965 
Rome, Italy
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation
Trading: ES, Options
 
gvv1965's Avatar
 
Posts: 12 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 10 given, 20 received

Hello,
I've recently had a free trial of PageTrader, trading the ES future.
On the plus side, the results were encouraging, in terms of trading performance, since the guy was able to catch the main swings of the day. Additionally, the support/resistance levels indicated in advance were right almost at the tick.
On the less positive side, trading techniques and rules are not disclosed, you just have to strigthly adhere to the trading signals that are given along the day.
I would be pleased to know if one of the good guys here on Big Mick's had any opinion about this service.
Thank you in advance
G.

Follow me on Twitter Started this thread Reply With Quote

Journal Challenge April 2021 results (now extended!):
Competing for $1800 in prizes from Jigsaw
looks_oneMaking a Living with the Microsby sstheo
(133 thanks from 19 posts)
looks_twoSalao's Journalby Salao
(45 thanks from 9 posts)
looks_3Deetee’s DAX Trading Journal (time based)by Deetee
(34 thanks from 15 posts)
looks_4Learning to Profit - A journey in algorithms and optionsby Syntax
(15 thanks from 12 posts)
looks_5Maybe a little bit different journalby Malykubo
(14 thanks from 13 posts)
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on futures io
Would You Sell Your System?
79 thanks
Big Mike in Ecuador
75 thanks
The Crude Dude Oil Trading System
61 thanks
The New Micro Contract - MICRO BITCOIN coming May 2021
25 thanks
futures io site changelog and issues/problem reporting
22 thanks
 
(login for full post details)
  #3 (permalink)
 David_R 
San Jose, Ca
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: Something moving
 
David_R's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,517 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 2,278 given, 2,412 received



gvv1965 View Post
Hello,
I've recently had a free trial of PageTrader, trading the ES future.
On the plus side, the results were encouraging, in terms of trading performance, since the guy was able to catch the main swings of the day. Additionally, the support/resistance levels indicated in advance were right almost at the tick.
On the less positive side, trading techniques and rules are not disclosed, you just have to strigthly adhere to the trading signals that are given along the day.
I would be pleased to know if one of the good guys here on Big Mick's had any opinion about this service.
Thank you in advance
G.

I tired it once for a month or so. I didn't necessarily have any success or failures with them. I think like most trading methods you need a good number of trades to see if its a good method or not. I did not like the fact that I was blind to what was going on. You get the page for a trade and either take it or not. At one time I inquired with them and said "it seems like the trades are counter trend.." They responded that "they are". i didn't like that.

It would be really the greatest thing to find a way to ride the coat tails of someone that is successful. All you need to do is click long here and short there. In my experience that is not enough. Psychology still gets in the way because you still may deal with loss in a negative manner and from that other emotions may arise etc. Everyone is different, so if it works for you thats great.

David

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to David_R for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #4 (permalink)
 gvv1965 
Rome, Italy
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation
Trading: ES, Options
 
gvv1965's Avatar
 
Posts: 12 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 10 given, 20 received


David_R View Post
At one time I inquired with them and said "it seems like the trades are counter trend.." They responded that "they are". i didn't like that.

It would be really the greatest thing to find a way to ride the coat tails of someone that is successful. All you need to do is click long here and short there. In my experience that is not enough. Psychology still gets in the way because you still may deal with loss in a negative manner and from that other emotions may arise etc. Everyone is different, so if it works for you thats great.

David

Hi David, thank you for your answer.
I agree with you, it looks like they trade quite often against the trend.. I decided to extend the trial for one month and will strictly follow their indications, while keeping an accurate register of my trades.
By the end of the month, I will compare my results that will incorporate real slippage and any eventual... psychological failures, with their theoretical results and will keep the group posted.
In the mean time, whoever else has any significant experience to share, will be very much appreciated.

Follow me on Twitter Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to gvv1965 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #5 (permalink)
 researcher247 
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: Advanced
 
Posts: 426 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 255 given, 751 received

Wrap your noggin' around this.

David Williams believes he has found something no one in the world ever found!

Reflected Wave

He pulled in 2.5 million in 1995 and he will pull in another 300K for his 2 seminars this year.

I have followed his work fairly closely on and off for nearly 10 years.

I would LOVE for someone to look at his reflected wave charts (I have more examples that I have captured and listened on his daily CFRN broadcast) and reverse engineer it.

However, his heavy-handed legal contract to attend is insane.

Watch out for his background check he will run on you and you are subject to bodily search.

Fine, he is adept at 'spatial forecasting' (wasn't Hurst too); but reflected wave is something that he discovered and one can use an indicator in an 'unusual' way to see both directionality and timing.

His dates are +/- 1 'timeframe/bar or whichever timeframe you are using.

I tend to think he is an extremely good businessman; admittedly he is a conservative trader and does not trade every day--his subscription base through pagetrader is massive and he has a knack for countertrend trading.

I just thought everyone would enjoy the 'pitch' for 7K.

I attended his webinars and listened to CFRN for several weeks. He continued to always say that conservative trading is best.

He is not a CTA but does use a broker that gives out trade 'suggestions' with good management and rules and targets.

I get the feeling he is equally talented as a long-term businessman as he is a 'forecaster.'

He even states there is a difference between being able to forecast a market move and to successfully trade it.

It is unfortunate that after making so so much money that he prices regular people out of his 'beautiful secret'--the Reflected Wave.

Believe me; even if every trader got the same information from this indicator; we would all use different timeframes and different approaches and different ways of trading it.

It truly is a marketer's world.

peace

r247

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to researcher247 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #6 (permalink)
 David_R 
San Jose, Ca
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: Something moving
 
David_R's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,517 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 2,278 given, 2,412 received


researcher247 View Post
Wrap your noggin' around this.

David Williams believes he has found something no one in the world ever found!

Reflected Wave

He pulled in 2.5 million in 1995 and he will pull in another 300K for his 2 seminars this year.

I have followed his work fairly closely on and off for nearly 10 years.

I would LOVE for someone to look at his reflected wave charts (I have more examples that I have captured and listened on his daily CFRN broadcast) and reverse engineer it.

However, his heavy-handed legal contract to attend is insane.

Watch out for his background check he will run on you and you are subject to bodily search.

Fine, he is adept at 'spatial forecasting' (wasn't Hurst too); but reflected wave is something that he discovered and one can use an indicator in an 'unusual' way to see both directionality and timing.

His dates are +/- 1 'timeframe/bar or whichever timeframe you are using.

I tend to think he is an extremely good businessman; admittedly he is a conservative trader and does not trade every day--his subscription base through pagetrader is massive and he has a knack for countertrend trading.

I just thought everyone would enjoy the 'pitch' for 7K.

I attended his webinars and listened to CFRN for several weeks. He continued to always say that conservative trading is best.

He is not a CTA but does use a broker that gives out trade 'suggestions' with good management and rules and targets.

I get the feeling he is equally talented as a long-term businessman as he is a 'forecaster.'

He even states there is a difference between being able to forecast a market move and to successfully trade it.

It is unfortunate that after making so so much money that he prices regular people out of his 'beautiful secret'--the Reflected Wave.

Believe me; even if every trader got the same information from this indicator; we would all use different timeframes and different approaches and different ways of trading it.

It truly is a marketer's world.

peace

r247

Its so wonderful, its so fantastic. Pick tops and bottoms and make millions. All for only $7000. So, is he sharing out of the kindness of his heart or is it just a bunch of BS? I say, if its so good, lock yourself in a room and trade the damn thing and make a fortune and don't go after poor souls looking for a way to find success in trading.

d

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #7 (permalink)
 gvv1965 
Rome, Italy
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation
Trading: ES, Options
 
gvv1965's Avatar
 
Posts: 12 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 10 given, 20 received


researcher247 View Post
Wrap your noggin' around this.

David Williams believes he has found something no one in the world ever found!

Reflected Wave

He pulled in 2.5 million in 1995 and he will pull in another 300K for his 2 seminars this year.

I have followed his work fairly closely on and off for nearly 10 years.

I would LOVE for someone to look at his reflected wave charts (I have more examples that I have captured and listened on his daily CFRN broadcast) and reverse engineer it.

However, his heavy-handed legal contract to attend is insane.

Watch out for his background check he will run on you and you are subject to bodily search.

Fine, he is adept at 'spatial forecasting' (wasn't Hurst too); but reflected wave is something that he discovered and one can use an indicator in an 'unusual' way to see both directionality and timing.

His dates are +/- 1 'timeframe/bar or whichever timeframe you are using.

I tend to think he is an extremely good businessman; admittedly he is a conservative trader and does not trade every day--his subscription base through pagetrader is massive and he has a knack for countertrend trading.

I just thought everyone would enjoy the 'pitch' for 7K.

I attended his webinars and listened to CFRN for several weeks. He continued to always say that conservative trading is best.

He is not a CTA but does use a broker that gives out trade 'suggestions' with good management and rules and targets.

I get the feeling he is equally talented as a long-term businessman as he is a 'forecaster.'

He even states there is a difference between being able to forecast a market move and to successfully trade it.

It is unfortunate that after making so so much money that he prices regular people out of his 'beautiful secret'--the Reflected Wave.

Believe me; even if every trader got the same information from this indicator; we would all use different timeframes and different approaches and different ways of trading it.

It truly is a marketer's world.

peace

r247

R247,
very interesting point. I tend to distrust kinda of "holy grail" or "Mida's touch" stuff. Indeed, if there were such a secret, I would be willing to sell everything I own to pay for it. I would just keep my last 1000 dollars for stock market speculation, after the secret has been disclosed.
By the way, I agree with you that, at least according to my first week of the trial period. The guy until know was good in his forecats, thoug if the trades he suggests are often endangered by slippage. I will continue to follow him with the utmost attention and will share my opinions here in the forum.
Thank you very much for your thoughtful post.


David_R View Post
Its so wonderful, its so fantastic. Pick tops and bottoms and make millions. All for only $7000. So, is he sharing out of the kindness of his heart or is it just a bunch of BS? I say, if its so good, lock yourself in a room and trade the damn thing and make a fortune and don't go after poor souls looking for a way to find success in trading.

d

David, I totally agree with your bad feeling about those sales pitches. However, I can somewhat understand the desire of teaching or of sharing anything good a person could have discovered. In other words, though if I would certainly use any eventual discovered secret for my financial benefit, I would also feel a sense of great accomplishment in teaching and sharing, maybe just to a selected circle of friends and maybe with different terms and financial conditions.
Indeed, this tremendous secret that, according to the author, could be understood just in the first 20 minutes of the 7000K seminar (this was told during a webinar) looks much more similar to that BS you mentioned than to a real holy grail.
Greetings from Italy to you and R247 and thank you again for your helpful support.

Follow me on Twitter Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to gvv1965 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #8 (permalink)
whyyo
New York
 
 
Posts: 5 since Apr 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

What else did you guys find out? I am interested in signing up with them for the regular trades, but I my budget is limited because I am just starting out. I don't have 7k to pay for training. I don't want to throw a bunch of my cash away, I would prefer to keep it in my account.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #9 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 49,983 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,458 given, 98,241 received


whyyo View Post
I don't have 7k to pay for training. I don't want to throw a bunch of my cash away, I would prefer to keep it in my account.

All the info you need is posted already. You have your answer...

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/

Visit other sites? Please spread the word about your experience with our community!
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #10 (permalink)
whyyo
New York
 
 
Posts: 5 since Apr 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received



Big Mike View Post
All the info you need is posted already. You have your answer...

Mike

Sorry Mike, just wanted to know what gvv thought of the trial, if they continued on etc. I can't take the training, so I was interested in their regular trades they sell. Just wanted to know how it worked out.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #11 (permalink)
 researcher247 
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: Advanced
 
Posts: 426 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 255 given, 751 received

Although my writing style is usually fairly harsh (see my language above in previous post); David Williams is a vendor that has quite a sophisticated product.

I would recommend you do 4 things.

1) Review his webpage again and go through all the links.

2) Actually call him and his staff before you take a trial--they are real people--work hard--and David is quite open about what his stuff is and is not.

3) Go to Christian Financial Radio Network and listen to David from 12:30pm est to around 1:30pm est each day (or listen to the archived podcasts). He goes through alot of his stuff everyday.

4) A 3 day trial to his premium product is about $14.95 and as a trialer you can get a feel for what you think is valuable and what may not be valuable to you.

As stated above in my post--I have followed David's work for about 10 years and like any other commercial method it has strengths and weaknesses and your own situation (psychology, funds, trading style) also is unique to you.

I do think his seminar in Vegas is overpriced @7K; but everything in life is relative to how you use it, your existing funds, and one's trading style. A trader with limited capital simply cannot and will not spend that on education. A well-capitalized trader with many years of experience may believe that David's seminar will reveal an 'edge' that over time will more than pay for itself.

Frankly, many non-correlated indicators put together into one's own personal method is most likely just as good as anything else out there.

I don't believe there are many 'new' unique and 100% revolutionary methods out there. I find trading (with a small edge) comes down more to discipline, risk control, psychology and trading style more than the next 'best' method.

peace

r247

Reply With Quote
The following 8 users say Thank You to researcher247 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #12 (permalink)
whyyo
New York
 
 
Posts: 5 since Apr 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

Thanks researcher for the feedback. I will listen to him. I will go through site again.



researcher247 View Post
Although my writing style is usually fairly harsh (see my language above in previous post); David Williams is a vendor that has quite a sophisticated product.

I would recommend you do 4 things.

1) Review his webpage again and go through all the links.

2) Actually call him and his staff before you take a trial--they are real people--work hard--and David is quite open about what his stuff is and is not.

3) Go to Christian Financial Radio Network and listen to David from 12:30pm est to around 1:30pm est each day (or listen to the archived podcasts). He goes through alot of his stuff everyday.

4) A 3 day trial to his premium product is about $14.95 and as a trialer you can get a feel for what you think is valuable and what may not be valuable to you.

As stated above in my post--I have followed David's work for about 10 years and like any other commercial method it has strengths and weaknesses and your own situation (psychology, funds, trading style) also is unique to you.

I do think his seminar in Vegas is overpriced @7K; but everything in life is relative to how you use it, your existing funds, and one's trading style. A trader with limited capital simply cannot and will not spend that on education. A well-capitalized trader with many years of experience may believe that David's seminar will reveal an 'edge' that over time will more than pay for itself.

Frankly, many non-correlated indicators put together into one's own personal method is most likely just as good as anything else out there.

I don't believe there are many 'new' unique and 100% revolutionary methods out there. I find trading (with a small edge) comes down more to discipline, risk control, psychology and trading style more than the next 'best' method.

peace

r247


Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to whyyo for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #13 (permalink)
 gvv1965 
Rome, Italy
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation
Trading: ES, Options
 
gvv1965's Avatar
 
Posts: 12 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 10 given, 20 received


whyyo View Post
Thanks researcher for the feedback. I will listen to him. I will go through site again.

Whyyo,

I agree with what Researcher wrote.
I've been following PageTrader for more than a month until now and I would synthetize my experience as follows:
  • on the positive side:
    • The guy has a very prudent approach and the risk related to each trade, though if the minimum amount is 2 contracts, is in my opinion tolerable even for a not deep pocketed trader (By the way, I would probably suggest a minimum of 15-20K as account size)
    • The support and resistance that are identified on a daily basis are more than often sound and reliable.
    • On average, there are 2 -3 trades per day, so no overtrading, something I personally cannot afford, also due to the fact I need to couple my trading with a full time, pervasive job
    • Access is given to the trades placed with the system in the recent past (some of them are really impressive since they are truly able to catch significant swings) and I have checked they are true to the real trades suggested live. Everybody so can make his/her own evaluations on that.
  • On the less positive side:
    • Stop appears to be placed mechanically, on the basis of a fixed amount of risk or @ breakeven
    • The rationale behind the exits is completely hidden, as are the pillars of the calls for trades.
    • In certain days the system tends to trade decisively counter trend (you might like or dislike it)
In all fairness, this is a very personal opinion, based on my (questionable) background as trader and as followers of PageTrader, so I hope you and the rest of the people on this forum will take it as a mere contribution to an ongoing discussion, forgiving first of all my English (I'm Italian) and any eventual ingenuity in my considerations.

Follow me on Twitter Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to gvv1965 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #14 (permalink)
MrOrange
New York
 
 
Posts: 3 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 10 received

I tried pagetrader for about 6 months a couple of years ago. I have honestly been dying to write a review of this trading service for a while. I feel like it's one of the biggest scams going. I lost thousands of dollars trading his exact signals, which were totally aweful.

The problem, or the 'scam' part of pagetrader is that the system recommends going long or short at a particular price, PLUS OR MINUS two ticks. When they report the results, and advertise them on their site, they assume the best possible entry price. This effectively exaggerates all their results by two ticks, and if you go through ALL their posted results (which i have), you'll see they average two ticks per trade!!! I went back over months and months of their results and did the math myself.

Here's an example to illustrate what i mean:

They will recommend a buy limit order on the ES at 1332.0, and suggest that you could get up to two ticks earlier than that. IF the price comes down to 1332.5 and bounces up from there, they assume that you DID get in 2 ticks earlier (even though you likely wouldn't have filled), and made money on the trade. They report this as a winner.

If the price comes down to 1331.5, they assume you got filled at 1332.0 (even though they suggested you could get in as early as 1332.5). So, if this trade happens to be a winner, they report that they got in at 1332.0 (again, even though they suggested you could get in as early as 1332.5). See the problem? In addition to that, of course if this trade was a stop out, they report a loss of two ticks less than what it would really be if you got in at 1332.5.

So, they have a methodology which seems to break-even, and they exaggerate all the results by two ticks because they're assuming best-case scenario, so overall it looks like their results are profitable.

TOTAL SCAM ARTISTS.

I have been a member of many many trading rooms, and lost thousands of dollars with lots of them (like i did with pagetrader), but i REALLY hate these guys because i think they are completely dishonest.

I would highly recommend staying away, and not getting sucked in by their reported results, because they are total BS.

Cheers.

Reply With Quote
The following 9 users say Thank You to MrOrange for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #15 (permalink)
 thenckel 
Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: AMP Futures/Zen-Fire
Trading: ES, FESX, FDAX, ER2, currency futures, oil
 
thenckel's Avatar
 
Posts: 5 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received


MrOrange View Post
I tried pagetrader for about 6 months a couple of years ago. I have honestly been dying to write a review of this trading service for a while. I feel like it's one of the biggest scams going. I lost thousands of dollars trading his exact signals, which were totally aweful.

The problem, or the 'scam' part of pagetrader is that the system recommends going long or short at a particular price, PLUS OR MINUS two ticks. When they report the results, and advertise them on their site, they assume the best possible entry price. This effectively exaggerates all their results by two ticks, and if you go through ALL their posted results (which i have), you'll see they average two ticks per trade!!! I went back over months and months of their results and did the math myself.

Here's an example to illustrate what i mean:

They will recommend a buy limit order on the ES at 1332.0, and suggest that you could get up to two ticks earlier than that. IF the price comes down to 1332.5 and bounces up from there, they assume that you DID get in 2 ticks earlier (even though you likely wouldn't have filled), and made money on the trade. They report this as a winner.

If the price comes down to 1331.5, they assume you got filled at 1332.0 (even though they suggested you could get in as early as 1332.5). So, if this trade happens to be a winner, they report that they got in at 1332.0 (again, even though they suggested you could get in as early as 1332.5). See the problem? In addition to that, of course if this trade was a stop out, they report a loss of two ticks less than what it would really be if you got in at 1332.5.

So, they have a methodology which seems to break-even, and they exaggerate all the results by two ticks because they're assuming best-case scenario, so overall it looks like their results are profitable.

TOTAL SCAM ARTISTS.

I have been a member of many many trading rooms, and lost thousands of dollars with lots of them (like i did with pagetrader), but i REALLY hate these guys because i think they are completely dishonest.

I would highly recommend staying away, and not getting sucked in by their reported results, because they are total BS.

Cheers.

I couldn't agree more, MrOrange. I did the same exercise as you a couple of years ago (albeit on only three months' data) and came exactly to the same conclusion.

Reply With Quote
The following 8 users say Thank You to thenckel for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #16 (permalink)
 GreatDane 
Tampa, FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT, SC
 
Posts: 52 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 31 given, 34 received


researcher247 View Post
Although my writing style is usually fairly harsh (see my language above in previous post); David Williams is a vendor that has quite a sophisticated product.

I do think his seminar in Vegas is overpriced @7K; but everything in life is relative to how you use it, your existing funds, and one's trading style. A trader with limited capital simply cannot and will not spend that on education. A well-capitalized trader with many years of experience may believe that David's seminar will reveal an 'edge' that over time will more than pay for itself.

Frankly, many non-correlated indicators put together into one's own personal method is most likely just as good as anything else out there.

I don't believe there are many 'new' unique and 100% revolutionary methods out there. I find trading (with a small edge) comes down more to discipline, risk control, psychology and trading style more than the next 'best' method.

peace

r247

r247, Thanks for the feedback. Did you actually take the Reflected Wave course, or are you only referencing the PageTrader site/signals? Thanks!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to GreatDane for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #17 (permalink)
 researcher247 
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: Advanced
 
Posts: 426 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 255 given, 751 received

Hola,

I cannot and will not answer your 1st question.

I have subscribed to his swingtrading 'bean service' and his 's/r' levels in the past; several times. I have my own methods to daytrade; so I did 'trial' his pagetrader every 3 years or so beginning in the early '00s--no subscription to daytrading pagetrader.

I hope you understand.

peace

hedvig

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to researcher247 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #18 (permalink)
 GreatDane 
Tampa, FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT, SC
 
Posts: 52 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 31 given, 34 received


researcher247 View Post
Hola,

I cannot and will not answer your 1st question.

I have subscribed to his swingtrading 'bean service' and his 's/r' levels in the past; several times. I have my own methods to daytrade; so I did 'trial' his pagetrader every 3 years or so beginning in the early '00s--no subscription to daytrading pagetrader.

I hope you understand.

peace

hedvig

lol... Thanks for the answer. I figured the non-disclosure was just regarding the specifics of it, not simply whether or not you actually TOOK the course. Boy, that's a BIT stringent.

I'm sure you won't be able to answer anything else then, unfortunately. Though I guess there's not much more to say, either. Obviously, it isn't as incredible of a predictor as portrayed. I imagine they're cherry-picking the charts they show. Or my other concern is they're showing the timeframe where it was most accurate, but not the others that weren't, and they would have made it hard to trade, as they may have conflicted with the other timeframes?

Anyway, thanks for responding, to the best that you could without suffering the wrath of a swarm of lawyers.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to GreatDane for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #19 (permalink)
 GreatDane 
Tampa, FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT, SC
 
Posts: 52 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 31 given, 34 received

Sitting through one of Pagetrader's webinars, and their traderoom moderator claims that he's traded for 30 years, and trades huge size, including holding overnight. Quite the talker.

It turns out because he hasn't been a trader, he's been a broker (salesman). That is until he was permanently barred from doing so, as a result of taking loans from customers (which is illegal) and then failing to pay even the interest on them. No doubt he lost that money in the market.

I so wish I could have posted in the webinar, but they use GoToMeeting where posts only go to the hosts.

GERARD FAGNANT - BrokerCheck

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to GreatDane for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #20 (permalink)
 estrade 
Austin/TX
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Trading: ES, TF
 
Posts: 48 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 3 given, 19 received

This course was a total joke.

It uses 1 common indicator... and +1 or -1 bar



How much can the market move on a 240 minute, 60 minute or even a 5 minute bar.



Makes his money from people who know nothing about trading at his seminars.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to estrade for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #21 (permalink)
 GreatDane 
Tampa, FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT, SC
 
Posts: 52 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 31 given, 34 received

Thanks, ES. So you took the course? I'd be suspicious, too - have been - but then I see his broker statements and... I don't know how he can be so profitable unless he's basing it on something else. We all who've been around awhile are rightfully suspicious - doubtful - of a simple indicator that is the grail. And your point about +/- a bar has always concerned me, too. But, he seems to be able to trade it?!

Just confirming, you did take the course?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #22 (permalink)
 researcher247 
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: Advanced
 
Posts: 426 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 255 given, 751 received

People around the internet have said Reflected Wave is a PSAR indicator and he 'fades' it - works in non-trending smaller-move conditions.

However, the +1/-1 bar is a long-time scam of vendors and also, other timeframes always take precedent (higher).

David is just a smooth talker - even in his premium monthly subscriptions along w/his trading room guy you can't document his reco's 100% objectively 'cause he goes over so many markets and conveniently has all kinds of ways to qualify his entry or non-entry.

A million ways to distract and then take 100% credit for every single move.

I documented him for 2 months in fall of '17 without paying him one single shekel for every single service he offered at his website (except paying for his Vegas seminars).

The Squares Principle Seminar is probably a variation on another theme he is now constantly advertising for.

David Williams works very hard and rarely takes time off - it's just I don't believe he can teach others how to analyze the market for profits.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to researcher247 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #23 (permalink)
 researcher247 
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: Advanced
 
Posts: 426 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 255 given, 751 received

I was paid for my time to properly documented David Williams services last fall by a wealthy investor.

I put in over 60 hours per week for 2 months and documented every single facet of his subscriptions.

After about 1 month one begins to see everything that he is doing and all the ways it is not objective, nor can you follow what he is doing without much subjectivity (oh - and alot of his swingtrades don't have hard stops) - nice, huh?

I could go on and on but please save your shekels on this one everyone.

peace...

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to researcher247 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #24 (permalink)
 GreatDane 
Tampa, FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT, SC
 
Posts: 52 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 31 given, 34 received

Thanks for the feedback! Particularly the point about the lack of stops. Obviously, you've had a thorough look at it, so I should simply accept that and move along. I previously also read another who noted that it was a PSAR, but the PSAR isn't based on a future time factor, which I believe is what Reflected Wave does, so that didn't make sense. And his new one, Square Principle, is a price based one with targets (not where to get in), so that seems to be different (Measured Moves?)

Those testimonials for the intraday calls throw me, too; curious if there were those when you were trialing and documenting all of the trades?

But again, there are other ways to trade, and I don't know why I still wonder about this. What with the caveats of the one bar either way, and whichever timeframe called a trade successfully, that he shows, were other trades that would have caused one to either lose or to not take the trade, but we don't see?

At one point I did a trial to the room, and intraday it was a mess. No clear signals given, and very disorganized. Maybe it's gotten better; again, he shows testimonials from current customers indicating that they were successful...

Anyway, thanks again for the feedback Hedvig, and I still would be curious of ES actually took the course. But regardless, I guess it doesn't matter since he wasn't satisfied. Though I did contact someone who took the Reflected Wave course and a couple years later he said he did still use it. Neverthless, time to move on.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to GreatDane for this post:


futures io Trading Community Trading Reviews and Vendors > Traders' opinion about PageTrader ES trading services (www.pagetrader.com)


Last Updated on May 13, 2018


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing
 

Journal Challenge w/$1,800 in prizes!

April

Seven Trading Mistakes Solved With Smart Trading Tools w/Brannigan Barrett

Elite only
     



Copyright © 2021 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts