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Traders' opinion about PageTrader ES trading services (www.pagetrader.com)
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Traders' opinion about PageTrader ES trading services (www.pagetrader.com)

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Diego, Miami & On the lake (Summer)
 
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Platform: Ensign, Ninja, Sierra, TradeStation & MT4
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Although my writing style is usually fairly harsh (see my language above in previous post); David Williams is a vendor that has quite a sophisticated product.

I would recommend you do 4 things.

1) Review his webpage again and go through all the links.

2) Actually call him and his staff before you take a trial--they are real people--work hard--and David is quite open about what his stuff is and is not.

3) Go to Christian Financial Radio Network and listen to David from 12:30pm est to around 1:30pm est each day (or listen to the archived podcasts). He goes through alot of his stuff everyday.

4) A 3 day trial to his premium product is about $14.95 and as a trialer you can get a feel for what you think is valuable and what may not be valuable to you.

As stated above in my post--I have followed David's work for about 10 years and like any other commercial method it has strengths and weaknesses and your own situation (psychology, funds, trading style) also is unique to you.

I do think his seminar in Vegas is overpriced @7K; but everything in life is relative to how you use it, your existing funds, and one's trading style. A trader with limited capital simply cannot and will not spend that on education. A well-capitalized trader with many years of experience may believe that David's seminar will reveal an 'edge' that over time will more than pay for itself.

Frankly, many non-correlated indicators put together into one's own personal method is most likely just as good as anything else out there.

I don't believe there are many 'new' unique and 100% revolutionary methods out there. I find trading (with a small edge) comes down more to discipline, risk control, psychology and trading style more than the next 'best' method.

peace

r247

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  #12 (permalink)
Just starting out...
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Thanks researcher for the feedback. I will listen to him. I will go through site again.



researcher247 View Post
Although my writing style is usually fairly harsh (see my language above in previous post); David Williams is a vendor that has quite a sophisticated product.

I would recommend you do 4 things.

1) Review his webpage again and go through all the links.

2) Actually call him and his staff before you take a trial--they are real people--work hard--and David is quite open about what his stuff is and is not.

3) Go to Christian Financial Radio Network and listen to David from 12:30pm est to around 1:30pm est each day (or listen to the archived podcasts). He goes through alot of his stuff everyday.

4) A 3 day trial to his premium product is about $14.95 and as a trialer you can get a feel for what you think is valuable and what may not be valuable to you.

As stated above in my post--I have followed David's work for about 10 years and like any other commercial method it has strengths and weaknesses and your own situation (psychology, funds, trading style) also is unique to you.

I do think his seminar in Vegas is overpriced @7K; but everything in life is relative to how you use it, your existing funds, and one's trading style. A trader with limited capital simply cannot and will not spend that on education. A well-capitalized trader with many years of experience may believe that David's seminar will reveal an 'edge' that over time will more than pay for itself.

Frankly, many non-correlated indicators put together into one's own personal method is most likely just as good as anything else out there.

I don't believe there are many 'new' unique and 100% revolutionary methods out there. I find trading (with a small edge) comes down more to discipline, risk control, psychology and trading style more than the next 'best' method.

peace

r247


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  #13 (permalink)
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whyyo View Post
Thanks researcher for the feedback. I will listen to him. I will go through site again.

Whyyo,

I agree with what Researcher wrote.
I've been following PageTrader for more than a month until now and I would synthetize my experience as follows:
  • on the positive side:
    • The guy has a very prudent approach and the risk related to each trade, though if the minimum amount is 2 contracts, is in my opinion tolerable even for a not deep pocketed trader (By the way, I would probably suggest a minimum of 15-20K as account size)
    • The support and resistance that are identified on a daily basis are more than often sound and reliable.
    • On average, there are 2 -3 trades per day, so no overtrading, something I personally cannot afford, also due to the fact I need to couple my trading with a full time, pervasive job
    • Access is given to the trades placed with the system in the recent past (some of them are really impressive since they are truly able to catch significant swings) and I have checked they are true to the real trades suggested live. Everybody so can make his/her own evaluations on that.
  • On the less positive side:
    • Stop appears to be placed mechanically, on the basis of a fixed amount of risk or @ breakeven
    • The rationale behind the exits is completely hidden, as are the pillars of the calls for trades.
    • In certain days the system tends to trade decisively counter trend (you might like or dislike it)
In all fairness, this is a very personal opinion, based on my (questionable) background as trader and as followers of PageTrader, so I hope you and the rest of the people on this forum will take it as a mere contribution to an ongoing discussion, forgiving first of all my English (I'm Italian) and any eventual ingenuity in my considerations.

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  #14 (permalink)
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I tried pagetrader for about 6 months a couple of years ago. I have honestly been dying to write a review of this trading service for a while. I feel like it's one of the biggest scams going. I lost thousands of dollars trading his exact signals, which were totally aweful.

The problem, or the 'scam' part of pagetrader is that the system recommends going long or short at a particular price, PLUS OR MINUS two ticks. When they report the results, and advertise them on their site, they assume the best possible entry price. This effectively exaggerates all their results by two ticks, and if you go through ALL their posted results (which i have), you'll see they average two ticks per trade!!! I went back over months and months of their results and did the math myself.

Here's an example to illustrate what i mean:

They will recommend a buy limit order on the ES at 1332.0, and suggest that you could get up to two ticks earlier than that. IF the price comes down to 1332.5 and bounces up from there, they assume that you DID get in 2 ticks earlier (even though you likely wouldn't have filled), and made money on the trade. They report this as a winner.

If the price comes down to 1331.5, they assume you got filled at 1332.0 (even though they suggested you could get in as early as 1332.5). So, if this trade happens to be a winner, they report that they got in at 1332.0 (again, even though they suggested you could get in as early as 1332.5). See the problem? In addition to that, of course if this trade was a stop out, they report a loss of two ticks less than what it would really be if you got in at 1332.5.

So, they have a methodology which seems to break-even, and they exaggerate all the results by two ticks because they're assuming best-case scenario, so overall it looks like their results are profitable.

TOTAL SCAM ARTISTS.

I have been a member of many many trading rooms, and lost thousands of dollars with lots of them (like i did with pagetrader), but i REALLY hate these guys because i think they are completely dishonest.

I would highly recommend staying away, and not getting sucked in by their reported results, because they are total BS.

Cheers.

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  #15 (permalink)
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MrOrange View Post
I tried pagetrader for about 6 months a couple of years ago. I have honestly been dying to write a review of this trading service for a while. I feel like it's one of the biggest scams going. I lost thousands of dollars trading his exact signals, which were totally aweful.

The problem, or the 'scam' part of pagetrader is that the system recommends going long or short at a particular price, PLUS OR MINUS two ticks. When they report the results, and advertise them on their site, they assume the best possible entry price. This effectively exaggerates all their results by two ticks, and if you go through ALL their posted results (which i have), you'll see they average two ticks per trade!!! I went back over months and months of their results and did the math myself.

Here's an example to illustrate what i mean:

They will recommend a buy limit order on the ES at 1332.0, and suggest that you could get up to two ticks earlier than that. IF the price comes down to 1332.5 and bounces up from there, they assume that you DID get in 2 ticks earlier (even though you likely wouldn't have filled), and made money on the trade. They report this as a winner.

If the price comes down to 1331.5, they assume you got filled at 1332.0 (even though they suggested you could get in as early as 1332.5). So, if this trade happens to be a winner, they report that they got in at 1332.0 (again, even though they suggested you could get in as early as 1332.5). See the problem? In addition to that, of course if this trade was a stop out, they report a loss of two ticks less than what it would really be if you got in at 1332.5.

So, they have a methodology which seems to break-even, and they exaggerate all the results by two ticks because they're assuming best-case scenario, so overall it looks like their results are profitable.

TOTAL SCAM ARTISTS.

I have been a member of many many trading rooms, and lost thousands of dollars with lots of them (like i did with pagetrader), but i REALLY hate these guys because i think they are completely dishonest.

I would highly recommend staying away, and not getting sucked in by their reported results, because they are total BS.

Cheers.

I couldn't agree more, MrOrange. I did the same exercise as you a couple of years ago (albeit on only three months' data) and came exactly to the same conclusion.

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  #16 (permalink)
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Tampa, FL
 
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Platform: NT, SC
 
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researcher247 View Post
Although my writing style is usually fairly harsh (see my language above in previous post); David Williams is a vendor that has quite a sophisticated product.

I do think his seminar in Vegas is overpriced @7K; but everything in life is relative to how you use it, your existing funds, and one's trading style. A trader with limited capital simply cannot and will not spend that on education. A well-capitalized trader with many years of experience may believe that David's seminar will reveal an 'edge' that over time will more than pay for itself.

Frankly, many non-correlated indicators put together into one's own personal method is most likely just as good as anything else out there.

I don't believe there are many 'new' unique and 100% revolutionary methods out there. I find trading (with a small edge) comes down more to discipline, risk control, psychology and trading style more than the next 'best' method.

peace

r247

r247, Thanks for the feedback. Did you actually take the Reflected Wave course, or are you only referencing the PageTrader site/signals? Thanks!

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  #17 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Diego, Miami & On the lake (Summer)
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ensign, Ninja, Sierra, TradeStation & MT4
Broker/Data: CQG, TT & FinFX
Favorite Futures: indices/notes/currencies/ metals/energies
 
Posts: 368 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 139 given, 602 received

Hola,

I cannot and will not answer your 1st question.

I have subscribed to his swingtrading 'bean service' and his 's/r' levels in the past; several times. I have my own methods to daytrade; so I did 'trial' his pagetrader every 3 years or so beginning in the early '00s--no subscription to daytrading pagetrader.

I hope you understand.

peace

hedvig

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  #18 (permalink)
Elite Member
Tampa, FL
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT, SC
 
Posts: 44 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 10 given, 32 received


researcher247 View Post
Hola,

I cannot and will not answer your 1st question.

I have subscribed to his swingtrading 'bean service' and his 's/r' levels in the past; several times. I have my own methods to daytrade; so I did 'trial' his pagetrader every 3 years or so beginning in the early '00s--no subscription to daytrading pagetrader.

I hope you understand.

peace

hedvig

lol... Thanks for the answer. I figured the non-disclosure was just regarding the specifics of it, not simply whether or not you actually TOOK the course. Boy, that's a BIT stringent.

I'm sure you won't be able to answer anything else then, unfortunately. Though I guess there's not much more to say, either. Obviously, it isn't as incredible of a predictor as portrayed. I imagine they're cherry-picking the charts they show. Or my other concern is they're showing the timeframe where it was most accurate, but not the others that weren't, and they would have made it hard to trade, as they may have conflicted with the other timeframes?

Anyway, thanks for responding, to the best that you could without suffering the wrath of a swarm of lawyers.

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  #19 (permalink)
Elite Member
Tampa, FL
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT, SC
 
Posts: 44 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 10 given, 32 received

Gerry Fagnant pagetrader room - RUN!

Sitting through one of Pagetrader's webinars, and their traderoom moderator claims that he's traded for 30 years, and trades huge size, including holding overnight. Quite the talker.

It turns out because he hasn't been a trader, he's been a broker (salesman). That is until he was permanently barred from doing so, as a result of taking loans from customers (which is illegal) and then failing to pay even the interest on them. No doubt he lost that money in the market.

I so wish I could have posted in the webinar, but they use GoToMeeting where posts only go to the hosts.

GERARD FAGNANT - BrokerCheck

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