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Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!


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Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!

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  #1 (permalink)
 bobbyacim 
new york
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: mb trading
Trading: 6e
 
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Posts: 184 since Feb 2010

Myself as well as others I personally know have been dupped by the "Dream Merchants" of the trading world which includes Educators, System Vendors, Ebook Authors, Private Mentorship programs and even home spun system developers selling their wares on sites like ebay and Lulu.com- all claiming to be consistantly profitable!
My personal experience has been that none can offer any kind of PROOF OF ACTUAL PROFITABLITY when they are called out on it!! YOU JUST HAVE TO TAKE THEIR WORD FOR IT, WHY????

Oh, yes some can offer proof of OCCASIONAL PROFITS INTERMIXED WITH LOSSES,
BUT NO ONE IN THE LAST 6 YEARS OF MY EXHAUSTIVE SEARCH CAN OFFER PROOF THAT THEY CONSISTANTLY ARE PROFITABLE AND THEREFORE LIVE SOLEY OFF OF THEIR TRADING RESULTS!

For those who still cling to the mantra that the key to profitable trading is Education, Education, Education, let me give you a sample of the trading education I have participated in over the past 6 years and at an approx. cost of over $10,000

Eminiacademy $5,000
Eminitradingstrategies $1,500
4xmadeeasy $600
Teachmetotrade $999
Traders International $ 6000 (recieved partial refund)
E=MC2 trading method $500
and a slew of hardcover, ebooks and 10 page trading instuctional downloads

I have also clocked over 5,000 hours between metatrader and ninjatrader in sim mode.

Still not consistantly profitable, but as I said earlier, I can not find anyone else who is either, at least not with ACTUAL PROOF!!!

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  #3 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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I've been reading your posts the last few days.

To me, it seems very clear. You are searching externally for reasons why you are unprofitable. You are now even demanding proof someone else is profitable. Someone elses earnings have nothing to do with your own.

Stop looking externally, stop buying new methods, stop searching for something that is tangible that is going to change your trading. The problem is within, you need to focus on within to solve it.

Read my signature for steps you can take to start to become profitable.

Mike

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 PandaWarrior 
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Here is my two cents. You will never be successful until you have your blood sweat, tears and money in a method you design yourself. Yes you can borrow and steal from others, but until you understand it down to the nitty gritty details, you won't trust it. Thats why buying something from someone else almost never works. You don't trust it.

So quit trying. Take everything off the charts, and just trade price action. If you need something to show you support or resistance, you can find that stuff here on futures.io (formerly BMT).

If you can build something you believe in, you will make it to profitability. But stop chasing the gurus. Most of them trade something they built for themselves and I believe they make it work for themselves, but the likelihood of you emulating that success is very small.

Lastly, never ever ever blame anyone or anything for your success or failure. It is entirely your doing so stop blaming and start looking internally for the answers. I bet the $10K and 5000 hours are not looking at the same exact set up. Instead I bet you have 100 hours looking at 50 different set ups. You need 1000 hours looking at the same set up to really begin to understand, 5000 hours will get you really good and 10000 hours should put you into the realm of greatness. But it all has to be with the same set up, otherwise you are just spinning your wheels.

Have fun.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
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 itrade2win 
New York
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Charts, TOS
Trading: E-mini S&P 500
 
Posts: 753 since Aug 2010
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I have seen that you have three threads started in this forum, but not a Journal thread. Which leads me to ask, do you keep a personal journal? And if not, I strongly suggest that you do. It will open doors that you will not believe. It opened my eyes that after looking back at a few months of my journal with charts that I knew nothing about the markets and with a short period of time I turned my results around tremendously. At least I don't make entries in the wrong direction anymore....lol.

Do yourself a favor and start a journal thread in this forum. Trust me, you will be glad you did.

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  #6 (permalink)
 bobbyacim 
new york
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Posts: 184 since Feb 2010


aztrader9 View Post
Here is my two cents. You will never be successful until you have your blood sweat, tears and money in a method you design yourself. Yes you can borrow and steal from others, but until you understand it down to the nitty gritty details, you won't trust it. Thats why buying something from someone else almost never works. You don't trust it.

So quit trying. Take everything off the charts, and just trade price action. If you need something to show you support or resistance, you can find that stuff here on futures.io (formerly BMT).

If you can build something you believe in, you will make it to profitability. But stop chasing the gurus. Most of them trade something they built for themselves and I believe they make it work for themselves, but the likelihood of you emulating that success is very small.

Lastly, never ever ever blame anyone or anything for your success or failure. It is entirely your doing so stop blaming and start looking internally for the answers. I bet the $10K and 5000 hours are not looking at the same exact set up. Instead I bet you have 100 hours looking at 50 different set ups. You need 1000 hours looking at the same set up to really begin to understand, 5000 hours will get you really good and 10000 hours should put you into the realm of greatness. But it all has to be with the same set up, otherwise you are just spinning your wheels.

Have fun.

First, something I would like to say to BIG MIKE;
Mike, I respect and greatly admire what you have built here, solely for the purpose of exchanging ideas, techniques and methodologies for the betterment of others like myself who are struggling with their trading, and for a lot longer than 6 years! Extremely Commendable Sir!

HOWEVER, wheather a method that I could devise myself would suit me better or wheather looking internally for answers is the solution, etc, etc..
I remain true to the main reason for starting this thread

IN 6 YEARS OF EXHAUSTIVE SEARCHING, I HAVE NOT FOUND ANY RETAIL DAYTRADER WHO UPON CLAIMING TO BE CONSISTANTLY PROFITABLE, CAN OFFER ANY CONCRETE PROOF OF SUCH. WHY?

Please understand I am strictly speaking about daytrading. Because swing trading and longer term is different, with these longer timeframes, you are rising above the so-called noise. Although if prices are fractal, then it can be argued that the longer term charts are just a greater amount of noise.

ENJOY YOUR HOLIDAYS EVERYONE AND GOD BLESS.

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  #7 (permalink)
 ideaman 
Pennslyvania
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 42 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 4 given, 39 received

Hi Bobbyacim:

Here's my 2 cents. 1982 I took the Richard D.Wycoff correspondence course. Took about a year to complete. I knew the principles of supply & demand, effort vs result and cause & effect, springs, upthrusts and falling thru the ice, etc. I plotted barcharts and point & figure by hand and focused, (operative word), on a hand full of companies and paper traded them, I knew them inside and out. I became consistantly profitable in stocks, I would also sell puts to buy and sell calls to sell etc etc.

I had one big problem, and still do, my DNA. It was totally boring having to wait to trade, I have no patience. I hated it, I must have action. I can't get past one chapter of any book without it becoming agony. They warned students against the temptation to wonder off searching for the holy grail. So in 1990 guess what I did. I am still looking for it. My sin is greater than anyone else's because I know what I need to do but can't get my self to do it. For some reason I must always be in a hurry.

So I'll throw some advice out there, take it for what it's worth. You shouldn't trade anything unless you know what make's it tick, it's personalities. You must study it as if you were a scientist studying an alien life form. Just sit and watch it. After 3 to 6 months a light bulb will come on. Ah Hah! Yep. You just discovered one thing it does 90 % of the time. THEN AND ONLY THEN do you put an indicator on the chart soley for the purpose to enhance that particular personality. Most people throw indicators on a chart just to see what sticks.

Good luck on your journey.

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  #8 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
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bobbyacim View Post
I remain true to the main reason for starting this thread

IN 6 YEARS OF EXHAUSTIVE SEARCHING, I HAVE NOT FOUND ANY RETAIL DAYTRADER WHO UPON CLAIMING TO BE CONSISTANTLY PROFITABLE, CAN OFFER ANY CONCRETE PROOF OF SUCH. WHY?

The title of your thread "Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable" seems to be a cry for help of sorts, you are saying you've spent a lot of time and money and yet you are unable to make money in the market.

But now you are saying the main reason for the thread has nothing to do with your trading performance or how much time or money you've spent, but instead has everything to do with finding a trader who will prove to you they are profitable. It's confusing because it has nothing to do with the title of the thread.

If you are trying to turn your trading around, then you can take my advice and start moving in that direction and accepting responsibility for your own actions. It's the complete opposite direction you are heading now, which is the constant search for someone else to justify a method or program to you, proving to you it is worth your time or money, or satisfying your desire to know if they are profitable. No one forced you to buy any vendors programs or methods (no gun to your head), you are responsible for your own decisions and actions. Many traders come to futures.io (formerly BMT) after making such purchases and realize they were a mistake, then they right the ship and start down a different path, one that places the emphasis on their own method and their own actions and accountability and responsibility for their own trading.

Mike

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  #9 (permalink)
 DavidHP 
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bobbyacim View Post
IN 6 YEARS OF EXHAUSTIVE SEARCHING, I HAVE NOT FOUND ANY RETAIL DAYTRADER WHO UPON CLAIMING TO BE CONSISTANTLY PROFITABLE, CAN OFFER ANY CONCRETE PROOF OF SUCH. WHY?

Several points to consider:

1. TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS RUDE!!!
2. You have been looking in the wrong place.
3. You have been asking the wrong question.
4. Traders owe you NOTHING and proving profitability does nothing for them.
5. The purpose of trading is to transfer your account into mine.
(I am your competition why should I help you?)

and lastly... I owe you NOTHING... Anything I give you or allow you to see is being gracious.

Trading is tough. If you can't handle that, perhaps you need to try something else.

Rejoice in the Thunderstorms of Life . . .
Knowing it's not about Clouds or Wind. . .
But Learning to Dance in the Rain ! ! !
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 thatguy 
New Brunswick, NJ
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Trading: N/A
 
Posts: 133 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 46 given, 155 received



bobbyacim View Post
IN 6 YEARS OF EXHAUSTIVE SEARCHING, I HAVE NOT FOUND ANY RETAIL DAYTRADER WHO UPON CLAIMING TO BE CONSISTANTLY PROFITABLE, CAN OFFER ANY CONCRETE PROOF OF SUCH. WHY?

Maybe because the real profitable ones don't care if you think they are profitable, nor care to impress you or feel that they owe you anything to prove that they are? Just because you type in bold capital letters, doesn't mean people will fall over their feet to prove to you that they are profitable.

Let's say some does. Then what? How is this going to help you? Are you going to be profitable all of a sudden too?

Just because you spent time and money on something, doesn't mean you will be successful. You also need to apply yourself in the correct way. I see numerous overweight people at the gym I go to, who spent 90% of their time talking to their friends, taking phone calls while half-assing it on the treadmill or just sit around taking a "rest". I can just imagine them telling their friends that they cannot understand why they don't lose weight since they go to the gym all the time.

Unless you take responsibility and apply yourself, you will always be that person in the gym wasting your time and money getting nowhere.

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