Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!
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I have been a spectator for most of this thread and agree with most of the posts. It is my understanding that he is not looking for motivation by seeing consistency, but looking for validation that an average retail trader can be consistently profitable. In doing so, this would be his determining factor in weather to continue in this venture. It would also validate if most retail traders are not just hobbyist, dreamers who can't compete with the institutional traders.
But, again I stand on the side that there are very profitable traders right here in this forum and it is kind of obvious who they are. My broker has a leader board as well and you can see the profits these guys are making and the beginners with small profits. Would most if not all brokers websites have a leader board?
Bobby, I hope I didn't speak out of line or implied something that is not you're intentions.
Last edited by itrade2win; December 31st, 2010 at 11:45 AM.
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But if you would receive 5 statements that showed you profits of over $100k a year in daytrading for like 10 years in a row, even then you would have all the odds against you to become profitable.
It would be nice if this thread were closed. Bobbyaicm has made a very valid point: he's spent a lot of money on education and never seen proof of success in retail day trading.
He didn't ask for help. He didn't ask for advice. He didn't ask for etiquette reminders. He asked if anyone could show him proof of success in retail day trading.
I'd say there are plenty of forum members who have also spent a lot of money on education and never seen proof of success in retail day trading. Reading through this thread and reading all the unsolicited advice and condescending statements directed toward Bobby, I'm compelled to add simply this: seeing a simple trading statement will not provide proof. To see proof of success as a retail trader you really need to find someone who is successful and spend some time with them. See where they live, what they drive, what their lifestyle is and get to know their circumstances. For example, if you were injured at work, received a multi-million dollar settlement, and now "trade for a living", then it might not be your trading that is actually providing your lifestyle. Another example... if your wife is a cardiac surgeon and you stay home with the kids - and trade - then even though you might put in profitable months now and again, it's not the trading that is providing your lifestyle.
It seems that to really get proof of success in retail day trading, it would be necessary to actually get to know the person, learn about their backgrounds and what other activities they engage in, etc. I believe there are a handful of successful retail traders here. The problem is, most successful traders already have pretty full lives and are not likely open to letting someone into their personal space for the purpose of proving something to them.
@Bobby, I like your question. And I don't care whether you type in all caps, or without punctuation (like sharky does), or any other way you choose to communicate. However, I don't know how to solve your situation short of you actually finding someone in your area that would be willing to help. One last point: as per another thread here, it's not easy to find retail day traders because quite often, if you ask what they do for a living, they will not say "I'm a day trader." Best of luck and have a great 2011.
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LOL...Again, no one is negating that. At least I'm not. It is my understanding that he is just looking for validation that there are profitable retail traders that exist, nothing more or less.
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And it would no longer work. Any potential profits would be competed out of any method that went viral. Your understanding of the markets you trade is the method. Your judgment is the method.
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows..."
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I think he really knows the answer to that question. To think otherwise, would be ludicrous. Peel away the layers, and I believe you are left with a very frustrated and envious individual.
Most people can't stand the thought of other people making money, while they are not. It is one of the reasons traders chase the market, buy tops, sell bottoms, and make other bad decisions; because they worry about others catching the move, while they are missing out.
Big Mike is spot on in his assessment and his advice.
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This is a healthy approach. I find that the expectations from any program are beyond what could be delivered.
When looking for education specifically in trading today, I am always looking for specific things that would serve as a building block on top of what I know. I am not looking to imitate anyone, adopt a new method with each book, etc.
Too often I see retail based traders change course and method with every vendor they trust.
if that is the route you take, it's irrelevant if you spend $10K or $30K because the fee for each vendor is different. More $$ does not mean more quality.
Rather then looking at someone's bottom line results that no one supplies ( and sometimes legally can't) evaluate if the program could serve as building block in your foundation to becoming a trader. This change in thinking would help you determine if you need to take another course that promises to "help with psychology"..."trade with the trend" and "cut your losses short"...sooner that later you will see a pattern within educators that repeat the same thing.
Let's admit to something: we can't as traders completely trade someone else methodology because we have our own risk tolerance and capital. So, the only thing we could look for is TRUE and genuine approaches that would help us shape our way of thinking of market action not for manuals to follow.
I do believe in education and I was mentored once myself over a decade ago.
My mentoring sessions resembled the episodes of the "Soup Nuttsy" from Seinfeld...he was a different kind of guy to say the least, but he got some things drilled into my head.
PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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And it will continue to stand, because even those who have what you want will not give it to you, and even if a few did you would just consider them to be outliers. No one here denies that the vast majority majority of day traders fail. Even the vast majority of would be pit traders fail, and in some sense they are professionals.
I have seen traders that you would term "professional" succeed spectacularly with no advantage over you except a stronger platform (TT) a direct connection to the exchange, which is available to you, capital, training, ability, and a powerful belief in themselves. Many of these guys do not use charts, don't even have them on their workstations. They trade pairs called the FITE or the NOB or the EUFOR. Frequently their strongest skill is execution.
IMO, a professional is just an amateur who has succeeded.
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows..."
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Bobby, if your goal is to be a profitable trader, I would suggest using your time to journal and learn from your own actions and mistakes so you can maximize your strengths and minimize your weaknesses. But, I have a feeling this approach does not agree with you, so that probably means you would be happier doing something other than trading.
However, if your goal is simply to make money (without being a trader yourself), and if you want someone else to trade for you as it seems like you may (you keep looking externally for methods and systems), why not simply hire a financial advisor from some big firm and go put your money to work with them, and let them handle the methodology. This would seem to be a better fit for you, this way you can spend your time researching the firm and the credentials of the person handling your money, which seems to be a strong suit for you, and not micro-manage the day to day operation of trading, which seems to be a weak point for you.
I agree I've often said a "Master" trader is just a trader who has made all the mistakes and survived.
Mike
Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.
Need help? 1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first. 2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses. 3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make. 4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance. 5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers. 6) Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.
I've often said a "Master" trader is just a trader who has made all the mistakes and survived.
