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Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!


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Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!

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  #321 (permalink)
 TrendTraderBH 
Detroit, Michigan
 
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@Steven.

I agree totally with needing a trading psychology although I took the route of a private practice trading psychologist....it was money well spent (at least better spent than all the "systems" I bought).

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  #322 (permalink)
 researcher247 
Chicago, IL
 
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Of course!

The final frontier in trading is 'iron-willed' discipline with near-flawless execution and steely resolve.

Without it you should probably just work a real job.

Armed with it though; one gets to have the freedom that buying and selling money gives.

I still attend at least 1 archived or real-time webinar on psychology every week. I also see a trading psychologist approximately 20X's per year (I have traded full time for 27+ years now).

It is burned into my brain. Basically, successful traders brainwash (in a good way) themselves with repetition so that the concepts soak into the subconscious.

Every Sunday I skip that supernatural worship thing that some people do and read from my own good 'book(s)' on psychology and trade management and technical analysis.

This is what separates small-lot and/or marginal traders and those that then are able to trade size and create wealth over a significant amount of time (years).

There is no wealth without work. It begins within.

peace

Hedvig

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  #323 (permalink)
 gcaldridge 
port charlotte, florida
 
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Steven Sontag View Post
There are many factors that determine success in trading. It is a good idea to check out you trading psychology.
Go to ultimatetradingpsychology.com Patrick has a good free 5 lesson course to get you started.

Steven:

Thanks for the post. Websites and books like this are a great idea for people to realize that they themselves are 90% of the problem and when they can successfully change their behavior they can be successful traders (can be - not will be).

I am amazed at the growing number of sites and sitechologists that are out there now telling us how we need to look after our own emotions and psychology. The intent is valid but they make it seem easy. I am amazed that they are so successful as traders that they need to run these businesses telling other people how to make money. I grow more skeptical of them every day.

On Patrick's site one of his 'key' points is:
How to quickly and easily achieve incredible self discipline, that will enable you to cut loses quickly, let your profits run and follow your system and rules

It is not quick and it is not easy. If you don't have self discipline today, as I don't, it is going to take a lot of time and effort to develop it.

Becoming a professional trader is like becoming any (successful) professional. Anyone who thinks it is easy and quick to become a golfer to compete with the likes of Tiger Woods is truly self deluded.
=============================================================================

I had a boss who used to regularly remind me of the old adage "if you're not part of the solution you are part of the problem!". Anyone can criticize but always propose an action when you do criticize.

The action I am proposing is the formation of a self-help group perhaps along the lines of Weight Watchers, Alcoholics Anonymous. The purpose of the group would be to develop a program and then support each other in that program to develop self discipline. The group doubled last week - from 1 to 2! Is anyone else interested?

Geoff

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  #324 (permalink)
 arjfca 
Montreal, Canada
 
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researcher247 View Post
Of course!

The final frontier in trading is 'iron-willed' discipline with near-flawless execution and steely resolve.

Without it you should probably just work a real job.

Armed with it though; one gets to have the freedom that buying and selling money gives.

I still attend at least 1 archived or real-time webinar on psychology every week. I also see a trading psychologist approximately 20X's per year (I have traded full time for 27+ years now).

It is burned into my brain. Basically, successful traders brainwash (in a good way) themselves with repetition so that the concepts soak into the subconscious.

Every Sunday I skip that supernatural worship thing that some people do and read from my own good 'book(s)' on psychology and trade management and technical analysis.

This is what separates small-lot and/or marginal traders and those that then are able to trade size and create wealth over a significant amount of time (years).

There is no wealth without work. It begins within.

peace

Hedvig

Hello Hedvig

Mind to share web site, books , CD etc. that helped you on the psychological side of the business

Martin

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  #325 (permalink)
 researcher247 
Chicago, IL
 
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Posts: 430 since Oct 2009
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Hola,

I have mentioned several of these sources on my deviant personal trading/lifestyle journal.

You'll have to wade through my ramblings to find the links. I hyperlinked most of them.

It's over here: Forums - Deep thoughts...

Peace

Hedvig

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  #326 (permalink)
 nakachalet 
siam, west coast andaman sea
 
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I had a boss who used to regularly remind me of the old adage "if you're not part of the solution you are part of the problem!". Anyone can criticize but always propose an action when you do criticize.

The action I am proposing is the formation of a self-help group perhaps along the lines of Weight Watchers, Alcoholics Anonymous. The purpose of the group would be to develop a program and then support each other in that program to develop self discipline. The group doubled last week - from 1 to 2! Is anyone else interested?

Geoff

@geoff

am lazily interested, nevertheless interested.

beam me up and count me as #3 or just @2.5, K?

and put me in your linkage and loop, K?

thx for a great charitable idea and we'll see if it goes any where.

warm regards

<by the way, are you the same geoff who sometimes serves as technician answering some members' technical questions, in certain company, pls?>

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  #327 (permalink)
 gcaldridge 
port charlotte, florida
 
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nakachalet View Post
I had a boss who used to regularly remind me of the old adage "if you're not part of the solution you are part of the problem!". Anyone can criticize but always propose an action when you do criticize.

The action I am proposing is the formation of a self-help group perhaps along the lines of Weight Watchers, Alcoholics Anonymous. The purpose of the group would be to develop a program and then support each other in that program to develop self discipline. The group doubled last week - from 1 to 2! Is anyone else interested?

Geoff

@geoff

am lazily interested, nevertheless interested.

beam me up and count me as #3 or just @2.5, K?

and put me in your linkage and loop, K?

thx for a great charitable idea and we'll see if it goes any where.

warm regards

<by the way, are you the same geoff who sometimes serves as technician answering some members' technical questions, in certain company, pls?>

Thank you for your 'lazy' interest 

I really appreciate your honesty in admitting this. That alone puts you far ahead of most people who say they want to learn to trade. I believe that becoming a successful, professional trader requires complete commitment (and interest). You’re either all-in or you’re out.

The first two to show ‘interest’ did not respond to my follow-up e-mails so I consider them to not be fully interested either. As a result I see that the group I wanted to build has a membership of only 1 – me.

I can 100% understand that others do not see me as the leader or co-ordinator to form such a group. I can also 100% understand that others do not think this can be done via an internet-group. If I could see an alternative I would jump at it. The one possibility of paying for a coach would work for me if I had already seen a coach that I would pay or knew how to find one.

To wrap this up, I am convinced that to become a professional trader takes the same time, commitment and discipline as becoming a commercial pilot, golfer or poker player. It takes years of concerted, focused, committed effort so that one’s underlying way of thinking, perceiving and behavior changes to be consistent with the trading environment.

If/when I determine how I can do this and how I can work it into a group I’ll put a posting back on Big Mike.

Regards

Geoff


PS - I'm not that 'other' guy.

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  #328 (permalink)
 kab0000 
London, United Kingdom
 
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Slipknot511 View Post
success has much less to do with education and much more to do with discipline and the right mindset.
Discipline will lead to consistency. With even a modicum of consistency, patterns in your behavior can be identified and adjusted. Without some sort of consistency, it is impossible to improve as a trader since your results will essentially be random. If your results are random, you can't even identify problems much less correct them.
This is why everyone says you must keep a trade journal & log all of your trades. But I can tell you, if you don't stick with one method and trade it consistently, that trading journal is useless.
Most all traders want instant success or they have unrealistic goals. This leads them to "system search". They will try a system for a few days or weeks and if their expectations aren't met, they will move on, assuming that the system is the reason they are not making money. The reality is that poor behavior patterns are the reason they fail. But without sticking with one system long enough, those patterns never have a chance to reveal themselves.
Sooner or later you have to admit that the only common denominator in all of the failed systems you tried is you. Once you can fully embrace this, then you can stick with one system, even if you consistently lose, long enough to start seeing the behavior patterns that are causing you to lose. Only then can you stand a chance at correcting the true weak link in your trading... and it has nothing to do with how much you have spent on education.

@Slipknot511

These are wise words (IMHO) and if there was anything that amounted to a holy grail then this would be it. Stick to a system and realise mindset and discipline are as important if not more important than the system itself. You hear this a lot but I don't think most get it.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
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  #329 (permalink)
 kab0000 
London, United Kingdom
 
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tigertrader View Post
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I am not sure why there are those on this thread, that are so preoccupied with seeing other peoples' P&L. You either believe in yourself, or you don't. Trying to motivate yourself by seeing someone else's positive P&L, isn't going to be the difference between your success or failure, but believing in yourself will.

@tigertrader

I agree with the part of your statement where you say "You either believe in yourself, or you don't" but in order for some to get to this stage they may require evidence based observations (not saying that they are owed this).

I'm sure most have heard of Roger Bannister and the 4 min mile barrier. More importantly what happened after he broke it? I'm not sure if we are allowed to post videos from other sites but this short clip should illustrate the power of that evidence based observation:


With that being said and thinking about it as I am writing now it would stand to reason that very few if any successful traders would want others believing that they too could be success if this is a nil sum game. Why would they want the extra competition? It would stand to reason then that you would not get many wanting to show the money they make for that reason (assuming this unicorn does exist )

*This is an edit after reading the thread further and realising someone has already posted the Roger Bannister illustration. Apologies for the repetition.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
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  #330 (permalink)
 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
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i think the person that made the post had a point. the trading educators that sold him all of that over price b.s. told some fairy tails along the way. we have all herd the same bed time storys. is there any one on this forum that trust trading vendors. any thing sold by a trading vendor should there not be a big red stamp ..buyer be ware and some a skull an cross bones. i fell sorry for the guy..

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