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Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!
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Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!

  #271 (permalink)
Elite Member
desert CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, TOS
Broker/Data: AMP/wCQG, TDA
Favorite Futures: CL,YM
 
Posts: 2,023 since Jul 2011
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Thanks very much for the advice Roztom. I've re-read it to try to get it to sink in. I'll print it out and tape it as I've done with Jaguar52's post. I'm probably undercapitalized. To risk 1% I shouldn't trade even 1 contract. Thanks, I appreciate it. Just my thoughts: So maybe I should just wait a year or two to save up. Or move to Forex. Or forget trading altogether and stick to sim for at least 2 years. I already blew most of my risk capital in previous years on scams of options trading, and options and stock newsletters by so called "famous" trading educators of the past century, and CNBC celebrities and guests. At one time I could trade 3 contracts at 1% risk. But I didn't find daytrading until last year.

I'll be curious to see how the "blowup journal" goal of 2K to 2 million fares:

https://futures.io/trading-journals/17844-blowing-up.html


Last edited by Cloudy; February 25th, 2012 at 01:05 PM.
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  #272 (permalink)
Elite Member
Chicago, IL. USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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Cloudy: What ever amount of risk capital you have might work if you can adjust the product you trade plus costs so the % that is in line with your equity size...

Early on in the StoneAge I traded Bean Oil, Corn, Soybean Meal... they are low margin products and the tick value is not outrageous... Bean products for example track Soybeans which are like greased lightening... so you could get less volatility with the products but allow yourself to trade a live market tied to a volatile product so you can toughen up your psyche... and learn to read market/proce behavior...

I'm sure there are better markets today where you can scale down the point size and still employ some good money management... potential scales to better manage risk...

I believe a 2 lot is a minimum configuration... IMHO the first scale is specifically to reduce risk at a high probability target based on volatility... then you can manage the other postion (s) according to your plan - another topic all together..

If you do not have this process then do SIM until you can achieve CP..

If 1% or less is what you need then scale down what you trade to fit. The trading process is pretty much generic across the spectrum with the exception of specific individual market idiosyncicies...

Maybe some others here can give you some suggestions...

Regards,

Tom

Nothing To It But To Do It
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  #273 (permalink)
Elite Member
Concord, NH USA
 
Futures Experience: None
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ChrisNucleus's Avatar
 
Posts: 20 since Feb 2012
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I love this thread...


This gentleman will CHECK his CHILDS TUTOR TO MAKE SURE SHE IS CREDENTIALED, he'll RESEARCH his DENTIST TO SEE IF HE HAS ANY MALPRACTICE SUITES PENDING AND
he doesn't KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT, WHENEVER he BUYs A BUSINESS, he'll ASK TO LOOK AT THE BOOKS!


But... he'll indiscriminately drop 10k on a trading education w/out first doing the appropriate research to find out if these 'educational materials' are going to truly give him a statistical edge that would sway the probabilities in his favor.

All this... only to soon find out that trading isn't really trading until you've got real $ on the table, some skin in the game & there is a true risk of loss.

My advice... Sell all the stuff you bought, take that $ and start trading w/ it. Because thats when your real education is gonna begin!


Last edited by ChrisNucleus; February 26th, 2012 at 06:38 PM. Reason: grammatical
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  #274 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
GrandRapids, Michigan
 
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Billbb's Avatar
 
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DavidHP View Post
Several points to consider:

1. TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS RUDE!!!
2. You have been looking in the wrong place.
3. You have been asking the wrong question.
4. Traders owe you NOTHING and proving profitability does nothing for them.
5. The purpose of trading is to transfer your account into mine.
(I am your competition why should I help you?)

and lastly... I owe you NOTHING... Anything I give you or allow you to see is being gracious.

Trading is tough. If you can't handle that, perhaps you need to try something else.

I like this one...That was good and its very true!

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  #275 (permalink)
Elite Member
Reno, Nevada
 
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phantomtrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 155 since May 2011
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Trading is Tough

This is a tough business. Get over it. Everybody has spent money on software, systems, mentors, teachers, etc. Most everybody has blown an account or two before really getting serious.

Here's the thing: Either you're committed to do the hard work, take what you've learned, continue researching and learning and put it all together into a methodology which is uniquely your own, or you're going to fail. No one copy-cats in this business. You can be sitting next to the best trader in the world who shares all his/her secrets. But you have another thing coming if you think you're going to mimic his/her trades. It doesn't happen that way. Trading skill is an evolutionary process. You have to be persistent, particularly in the event of losses. If you're not in it, you can't win it.

About individual P/L's, what good is it to see someone else's profits or losses? You can't duplicate what that person is doing. And just because that person has "done it", doesn't mean YOU can do it too.

The most valuable education you can get in this business is free - it's here on this board, it's in webinars and other free tools easily found on the internet. It's people who are willing to share and answer questions. I share with people all the time and I'm happy to do it. But it's up to the individual to make it happen.

I've blown accounts and I've bought a lot of crap out there - but I consider all this as a learning experience - you always take away something - even if it's only learning what you should NOT do. I don't consider it a waste of time or money.

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Last edited by phantomtrader; March 30th, 2012 at 03:20 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #276 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Quebec
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker/Data: Stage 5 trading/AMP/CQG
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trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,690 since Oct 2009
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No doubt this is a tough business but you can quite certainly copy or try to adopt another person methodology. That's how i have learned about all of the things i know, whether it be music, computer programming, graphic arts etc.. No one needs to recreate the wheel from scratch, it has already been done. By all means, use what other traders have discovered. Let's just take Perryg's or CJBooth's system, i would have no problem referring any trader to these methods. That may be a good starting place for many. So i would tend to disagree with your statement in bold as i think that's probably the best way to learn and start in this business.


phantomtrader View Post
This is a tough business. Get over it. Everybody has spent money on software, systems, mentors, teachers, etc. Most everybody has blown an account or two before really getting serious.

Here's the thing: Either you're committed to do the hard work, take what you've learned, continue researching and learning and put it all together into a methodology which is uniquely your own, or you're going to fail. No one copy-cats in this business. You can be sitting next to the best trader in the world who shares all his/her secrets. But you have another thing coming if you think you're going to mimic his/her trades. It doesn't happen that way. Trading skill is an evolutionary process. You have to be persistent, particularly in the event of losses. If you're not in it, you can't win it.

About individual P/L's, what good is it to see someone else's profits or losses? You can't duplicate what that person is doing. And just because that person has "done it", doesn't mean YOU can do it too.

The most valuable education you can get in this business is free - it's here on this board, it's in webinars and other free tools easily found on the internet. It's people who are willing to share and answer questions. I share with people all the time and I'm happy to do it. But it's up to the individual to make it happen.

I've blown accounts and I've bought a lot of crap out there - but I consider all this as a learning experience - you always take away something - even if it's only learning what you should NOT do. I don't consider it a waste of time or money.


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  #277 (permalink)
Elite Member
Reno, Nevada
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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phantomtrader's Avatar
 
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trendisyourfriend View Post
No doubt this is a tough business but you can quite certainly copy or try to adopt another person methodology. That's how i have learned about all of the things i know, whether it be music, computer programming, graphic arts etc.. No one needs to recreate the wheel from scratch, it has already been done. By all means, use what other traders have discovered. Let's just take Perryg's or CJBooth's system, i would have no problem referring any trader to these methods. That may be a good starting place for many. So i would tend to disagree with your statement in bold as i think that's probably the best way to learn and start in this business.

Yes, you can certainly learn from people. But they will not take exactly the same trades - that's what I mean by copy cating - two traders, no matter how much they mimic a strategy, will not have the same P/L unless the strategy is automated. Learning a good technique does not necessarily mean that everyone utilizing that technique will trade exactly the same way.

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  #278 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Quebec
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker/Data: Stage 5 trading/AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,690 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,039 given, 4,479 received

I would think that for most people that is so evident, but you need to start somewhere and the best place is from others. Imagine you would want to learn to play guitar, would you get into your basement and try to learn it by your own? How much efficient would it be? I would most certainly be happy to meet Clapton or Santana or whoever and learn from them. Of course, i would not expect to be the next Clapton or Santana.


phantomtrader View Post
Yes, you can certainly learn from people. But they will not take exactly the same trades - that's what I mean by copy cating - two traders, no matter how much they mimic a strategy, will not have the same P/L unless the strategy is automated. Learning a good technique does not necessarily mean that everyone utilizing that technique will trade exactly the same way.


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  #279 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
DetroitMIUSA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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SM, Market Makers & HFT's

Are NOT hanging at futures.io (formerly BMT). You can bet your whole account on it!! The professionals who ARE here are here because they like to hang out and have fun and talk about trading not to teach newbie's WTF to do.

I talk to 1 professional trader only here who trades what I trade and am fortunate enough to be able to ask him questions and get constructive criticism OFF this board because he is cool enough to take my calls.

Here is some advice you can take to the grave with you. "Everyone who smiles at you IS NOT your friend"

The traders who make bank everyday in the live market who have an edge certainly do not tell other traders about it. It's why they are rich!!!

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  #280 (permalink)
Site Administrator
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PowerBroker View Post
SM, Market Makers & HFT's Are NOT hanging at futures.io (formerly BMT). You can bet your whole account on it!!

There are a very large number of institutions and professionals here. They never post or show themselves, but some have talked to me privately, and others I see from the view of being the Administrator (for example, their out of office replies when receiving webinar invitations, etc).

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