Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable! - futures io
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Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!


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Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!

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  #261 (permalink)
desert CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, TOS, CQG-trader
Broker: AMP, DT, TDA
Trading: CL,NQ,YM
 
Posts: 2,130 since Jul 2011
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I would agree Bobby for the most part. Sim does have uses in developing skill in entry and practice reading the charts. It is practice. Then in a real session, stop losses of real money take a huge psychological toll. Despite what books say, it's never easy to forget the real monetary loss and move on. (It's always easier to waste/lose other people's money, like what the federal&state governments are doing. The author's of trading books are not trading your account or money, they are making money selling the book one is reading.) Even worse with multiple contracts. When one is losing that much more money on the line. extra thoughts: So I guess that makes a better case for not having an under-funded account. But a lot of us are trying to trade in order to accumulate a bigger account!

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  #262 (permalink)
desert CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Posts: 2,130 since Jul 2011
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I just had to share this link. It was so funny! emg at elitetrader at it again:

Forums - The Path to Heaven or Hell

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  #263 (permalink)
Portland, OR
 
Experience: None
 
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That's hilarious. Why's everyone giving him a hard time? Lol

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  #264 (permalink)
Greensboro NC
 
Experience: None
Platform: TOS/ NT Dorman
Trading: ES TF CL
 
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Posts: 1,352 since Sep 2011
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Cloudy View Post
I just had to share this link. It was so funny! emg at elitetrader at it again:

Forums - The Path to Heaven or Hell

still laughing, keep them coming

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  #265 (permalink)
Victoria, TX
 
Experience: Master
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus Futrues, Zen-Fire, IQFeed, Kinetick
Trading: 6E, CL, GC
 
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Posts: 132 since Apr 2010


bobbyacim View Post
WHY IS EVERYONE VEERING OFF TOPIC??
Perhaps because no one on this forum can honestly say they are CONSISTANTLY PROFITABLE AND BACK IT UP WITH PROOF EITHER???

Although a agreed that THE RUMPLED ONE was his own worse enemy and most likely his own cause for being banned from this site as well as others. After six long and expensive years of this journey, I must concur with some of the conclusions he drew, among them;
A) THAT IF ANY METHOD OUT THERE COULD BE CONSISTANTLY PROFITABLE, IT WOULD HAVE GONE VIRAL A LONG TIME AGO AND EVERYONE WOULD KNOW ABOUT IT

Hello Bobby,

I think that after 6 years and $10,000 you're feeling angry and frustrated and just want to vent. Typing all caps doesn't bother me at all. But a lot of people here are honestly trying to help and you might be missing their point, too.

If you are upset, angry, confused, disillusioned and frustrated, there is no way in hell you will ever succeed as a trader. Do you actually believe that there are no successful traders just because they don't feel an obligation to divulge their private personal financial information to you? That the trillions of dollars flying around in the various markets every day never lands in trader's pockets just because it never lands in yours? And do you really think that there is a trading system that you can buy that would be consistently profitable for all...for no other reason than they bought it? That was a joke, right?

Any trader who has been at it for 6 years should know that the holy grail is only traded by the tooth fairy...and she doesn't share it with anyone.

The traders who make it are the ones that never give up. They are also the ones who can overcome anger and frustration and get back to work. You still have a long way to go.

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  #266 (permalink)
DetroitMIUSA
 
 
Posts: 193 since Feb 2012

rogerf Bobby is clearly insane!

I would ask him these questions:

How long did you do your education for?
How long did you sim trade for b4 you went live and lost real money?
How much mentoring did you get and from whom and for how long?

The 10K you spent/lost/are down? Did you start with that in your capital account to begin with? That's sort of the norm and it's probly still underfunded.

I started with 3k both times I went in there live. I didn't blow out either time but was smart enough to GTFO of there and admit I was wasn't ready. EASSSSiely 10k+ hours of time, vids, reading, studying. Mentoring from traders who are CP and who both told me NO power don't go in there live yet. I have been at IT for like 2.5 years and just got in here to try to learn even more than I already know. Still sim trading, Still learning. EVERYDAY!!!

Now here it is from a realist Bobby... DO your self a favor and just work at Burger King. You are NOT a trader. You are a poser who is a wanna be trader. YOU are going down a road of anger that is going to get you found with the stool or bucket knocked over underneath you.

I'll take a Whopper with cheese!!!

Trade smart OR JUST DON"T TRADE.....

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  #267 (permalink)
NY + NY/USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Optimus Futures- Rithmic
Trading: CL, 6E
 
Posts: 236 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 11 given, 1,270 received


bobbyacim View Post
WHY IS EVERYONE VEERING OFF TOPIC??
Perhaps because no one on this forum can honestly say they are CONSISTANTLY PROFITABLE AND BACK IT UP WITH PROOF EITHER???

Although a agreed that THE RUMPLED ONE was his own worse enemy and most likely his own cause for being banned from this site as well as others. After six long and expensive years of this journey, I must concur with some of the conclusions he drew, among them;
A) THAT IF ANY METHOD OUT THERE COULD BE CONSISTANTLY PROFITABLE, IT WOULD HAVE GONE VIRAL A LONG TIME AGO AND EVERYONE WOULD KNOW ABOUT IT

Pay particular attention to items **
Trading is as complicated as you make it.
Trading involves risk management.
Trading requires above average patience and discipline.
Trading is a business venture requiring some kind of planned actions.
Trading well takes time and has a steep learning curve.
Trading for a living requires making money on a consistent basis.
**Mass sharing of strategies is a deception. It's obvious purpose is enticing new traders to participate in the inventory pool. It produces self destructive results and supplies the market with a steady flow or losers. Traders with successful methods are more likely to safe-guard their methods and share them sparingly, if at all.
**Most successful strategies and methods work for very few other than the person who developed it.
Not all strategies fit all time frames, chart types, or instruments. Universal strategies are about as good as coin flipping, and minute, period, or sensitivity adjustments are about as good as coin flipping on a rainy day.
Most traders expectations are way out of line with what is possible in the beginning.
Most traders exceed their expectation once profitable consistency is achieved.
Many traders lose consistently because they are unwilling to approach trading as a learned and developed skill.
Many traders think that trading is not a competitive activity.
Many traders have a habit of trading what they think, wish, want, expect, hope, and dream rather than what is happening on their charts.
Many traders place more emphasis on trading theories, statistics, formulas, and potential rather than the fluid right edge just before the unknown.
Many traders go brain-dead once the leap into the unknown is made, and cannot pull the rip-cord at the proper time, often enough to remain above ground long enough to not break their accounts.
90% lose, and you are most likely to be in that category the first year, or longer.
Stop trading once your risk capitol is gone. Do something else.
The minimal funding without educational budgeting is $15k per contract until you have a successful performance of profitable trading for at least 1 year.
Once successful sim trading is achieved, you have a 50% chance of being able to repeat those results with cash. The deciding factor is self control.

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  #268 (permalink)
Chicago, IL. USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: IRT, Bookmap
Broker: EdgeClear, Rithmic
Trading: ES/NQ/Volume Profile
 
Posts: 38 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 24 given, 79 received

Jaguar52: Your post is by far the most succienct summary of what this business is all about.. all in one place at one time...

Succes is this business is not a direct replication of what works for someone else.

Many try to mimic someone elses plan which is why vendors do so well and most vendo students do so poorly - assuming the vendor has something of value... (not referring to you here)

If we could truly replicate/mimic someone elses success/plan then we would all know about it, go and sign up and then have our own ATM... success in this business is fought for and won every day.

Plug & Play just doesn't exist for the retail trader, IMHO.

Regards,

Tom

Nothing To It But To Do It
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  #269 (permalink)
desert CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, TOS, CQG-trader
Broker: AMP, DT, TDA
Trading: CL,NQ,YM
 
Posts: 2,130 since Jul 2011
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Great stuff in your post Jaguar52. Probably been said before here and there, but all in one place is nice. I want to print it and tape it.

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  #270 (permalink)
Chicago, IL. USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: IRT, Bookmap
Broker: EdgeClear, Rithmic
Trading: ES/NQ/Volume Profile
 
Posts: 38 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 24 given, 79 received



Cloudy View Post
I would agree Bobby for the most part. Sim does have uses in developing skill in entry and practice reading the charts. It is practice. Then in a real session, stop losses of real money take a huge psychological toll. Despite what books say, it's never easy to forget the real monetary loss and move on. (It's always easier to waste/lose other people's money, like what the federal&state governments are doing. The author's of trading books are not trading your account or money, they are making money selling the book one is reading.) Even worse with multiple contracts. When one is losing that much more money on the line. extra thoughts: So I guess that makes a better case for not having an under-funded account. But a lot of us are trying to trade in order to accumulate a bigger account!

Cloudy: I think multiple contracts are absolutly necessary to succeed in this business.... Without a 2 - 3 lot unit you cannot scale and layoff some risk... I trade in multiples of 3... The first 2 are taken out at high probability targets or even together - that's my bread and butter.. I'm CP with those...and then the last 1/3 is a runner.. Quite often the runner ends up a small winner or a scratch... I also don't get to keep a large % of the open trade on it (daytrading) since I give it room.. but when things get going it's nice to have...

I also add to winners as continuation trades using my runner Open trade Equity as a cushion.. There are a number of ways to do it...

As far as the psycological effects of trading multiple contracts and taking a loss... IMHO your account size has to be large enough that any loss you take is just a bump in the road..If any size loss creates severe stress than I believe the account is under capitalized... I risk apx $300 per 3 lot as a disaster stop... it rarely gets taken..

I wait for the market to come to my areas of interest..then I just step in front of the train... when I see my setups at my levels/areas of interest. I do not wait for indicators since they lag and I would have to almost double my risk by giving up any entry edge. I often get in .075 - 1.25 from the bottom of a swing... or retracement (ES) on entry. Indicators are nice when they eventually confirm if I'm right - gives me some psycological room to breath then I just manage the position..

Key here is that proper capitalization is required to be aligned with you psyche... For me I want $300. to impact me like $30. I don't like lossing 30 cts or even $30. so my account has to be large enough so that $300 is inconsequential to it and to my mental state... just what I had to do to accomodate my feelings of risk aversion/loss...

I try to keep my risk to about 1% per trade max - sometimes often less 0.75%... then they are just numbers.. I had to teach myself that it is overhead, cost of production, Inventory to try to seperate myself from it emotionally as much as possible..

I know others here risk a larger percentage of their $ but as soon as I think Money and not Trade I am hosed..

Just how I managed it for my own Psyche... YMMV..

Regards,

Tom

Nothing To It But To Do It
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