Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable! - futures io
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Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!


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Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!

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  #211 (permalink)
Los Angeles
 
 
Posts: 132 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 97 given, 109 received


KMTOPGUN View Post
Well I am now 2 months into my trading and have learnt a lot...a lot of what not to do...LOL.

In forex, after orders bigger than 4 lots no matter what broker you use, you will get constantly slipped. Believe me, it is not fun planning to lose $450 dollars what then turns out to be a $900 loss. Even in quiet market, I sometimes get slipped 5 ticks (pips) and that's too much. That's why I recently decided to move to futures, I have not moved yet, but I certainly will.

I love this thread for whatever reason... So I'd reply again with maybe one or two more sentences:

What a trader must look for is inefficiencies. There are many definitions what an inefficiency is, but mine is: it is something that happens over and over. And you just trade it. It is not necesarry always there. They come and go, you need to find several. Or you can create it within the order book or with large orders, it is not necessary on charts.

When you find one, you start looking for another and so on.

By the way, bobbyacim, you said you are trading 6E. I would say, this is the most difficult thing to trade, but probably the best to learn form. It's good you have finally made it!

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  #212 (permalink)
Tokyo, Japan
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT,MT4
Broker: Zen-Fire,MBT
Trading: ES,Oil,EUR/USD,GBP/USD
 
Posts: 8 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 28 given, 7 received

Every trader has different personality, thus different methods. There is no guarantee buying products from vendors can make you profitable. Perhaps those products do work for them. After all they are the makers and made it as they see fit for themselves and not everyone.

Some use oscillators,some hate it. Some use vsa, some don't understand what vsa is. My rule of thumb is to "trade what you understand" and understand your trade's r : r , winning ratio. If you don't,it's called gambling. Do your homework and do your math. Keep learning as there are tons of indicators and methods out there. One of them might work for you.

Reliable vendors and mentors are those who don't stress so much on some skycraping profits, but student's overall happiness. Those that help each other to trade for living or to earn some pocket money.

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  #213 (permalink)
desert CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, TOS, CQG-trader
Broker: AMP, DT, TDA
Trading: CL,NQ,YM
 
Posts: 2,130 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 2,372 given, 1,710 received


It' probably a given, but I've noticed in trading rooms, that candlesticks can vary widely especially on a dense tick chart like 400 for the 6e. What irks me is that how do I know that the recent "trap" bull candle I took for a breakout and ultimately lost in the trade wasn't puffed differently from my broker. And why at the same time, the host's chart shows a different looking candle? Or a different set of 2 or 3 candles that look widely different than the set on my chart? Sometimes the wick and bodies vary greatly and that can make a major difference in a trading decision.

ReaM, most forex brokers are notoriously suspected of trading and slipping against you as they are highly unregulated compared to futures trading. They don't seem to have an official regulator , Interbank if anything. While futures has the CFTC , NFA and SEC.


Hey Bobby, when are you going to come back and tells us about your C-P-B method?
Have you been testing it? Sounds like you are having success?

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  #214 (permalink)
UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Mirus/Zen
Trading: Futures - bonds, currencies, index
 
Posts: 288 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 70 given, 270 received

Where does it sound like he's having success? It was almost guaranteed to fail.

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  #215 (permalink)
desert CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, TOS, CQG-trader
Broker: AMP, DT, TDA
Trading: CL,NQ,YM
 
Posts: 2,130 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 2,372 given, 1,710 received

His last posts he said he was having success with cjbooth's method. Then he was integrating it with Perry's method and some of what he learned so he came up with his own system. It sounded like a change from what he was doing before i.e. the title of his thread. He came up with his own variation this time which was individually constructive. Although it has been more than a few weeks since he said he would be back to tell us how his new hybrid worked out...

Sometimes newly successful traders disappear and clear out of all forums i.e. they become too busy making money from their newfound golden goose.

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  #216 (permalink)
UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Mirus/Zen
Trading: Futures - bonds, currencies, index
 
Posts: 288 since Oct 2010
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Cloudy View Post
His last posts he said he was having success with cjbooth's method. Then he was integrating it with Perry's method and some of what he learned so he came up with his own system. It sounded like a change from what he was doing before i.e. the title of his thread. He came up with his own variation this time which was individually constructive. Although it has been more than a few weeks since he said he would be back to tell us how his new hybrid worked out...

Sometimes newly successful traders disappear and clear out of all forums i.e. they become too busy making money from their newfound golden goose.

I may have missed it, but I saw no evidence of him being successful with either method. The whole point being was that he had no idea how to measure success, so was quite happy to describe five winning trades as 'now successful'

So, as far as I can tell, he took two methods he had not been successful with, and rather than become successful with one of them, decided to combine both. The basis for the new method being successful is therefore really rather random. So, he decided to jump straight from unsuccessful trader to teaching guru, and bypass the part where you make money consistently.

You're right that traders sometimes disappear when successful, but do you really think bobby wouldn't be posting all over here if he was now actually making money.

Maybe I'm doing him a disservice, but we don't know do we....

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  #217 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 49,140 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 31,809 given, 95,761 received

Most of the time when someone disappears, I would have to say it is because they blew out their account or decided to give up on trading, even if just temporary.

If that is what happened to him, then I would hope some people learned to stop searching for someone else to do the job for them... These guys are always searching for some magic indicator, system, method, to make you profitable... and never addressing their poor risk management, poor money management, poor trade management, poor execution, etc...

Mike

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  #218 (permalink)
Ukraine
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Spoon
 
Posts: 18 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 2 given, 4 received


bobbyacim View Post
Myself as well as others I personally know have been dupped by the "Dream Merchants" of the trading world which includes Educators, System Vendors, Ebook Authors, Private Mentorship programs and even home spun system developers selling their wares on sites like ebay and Lulu.com- all claiming to be consistantly profitable!
My personal experience has been that none can offer any kind of PROOF OF ACTUAL PROFITABLITY when they are called out on it!! YOU JUST HAVE TO TAKE THEIR WORD FOR IT, WHY????

Oh, yes some can offer proof of OCCASIONAL PROFITS INTERMIXED WITH LOSSES,
BUT NO ONE IN THE LAST 6 YEARS OF MY EXHAUSTIVE SEARCH CAN OFFER PROOF THAT THEY CONSISTANTLY ARE PROFITABLE AND THEREFORE LIVE SOLEY OFF OF THEIR TRADING RESULTS!

For those who still cling to the mantra that the key to profitable trading is Education, Education, Education, let me give you a sample of the trading education I have participated in over the past 6 years and at an approx. cost of over $10,000

Eminiacademy $5,000
Eminitradingstrategies $1,500
4xmadeeasy $600
Teachmetotrade $999
Traders International $ 6000 (recieved partial refund)
E=MC2 trading method $500
and a slew of hardcover, ebooks and 10 page trading instuctional downloads

I have also clocked over 5,000 hours between metatrader and ninjatrader in sim mode.

Still not consistantly profitable, but as I said earlier, I can not find anyone else who is either, at least not with ACTUAL PROOF!!!

My personal recommendation: keep an eye on the trend and stop seek a guru and golden systems.You'll never find it.

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  #219 (permalink)
NY + NY/USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Optimus Futures- Rithmic
Trading: CL, 6E
 
Posts: 236 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 11 given, 1,270 received


Vitaliy View Post
My personal recommendation: keep an eye on the trend and stop seek a guru and golden systems.You'll never find it.

This one is my favorites. If you come across something like this you better run the other way as fast as you can.

There is no special answer to this business. It more often than not comes down to dogged determination, steeled perseverance, simple to trade methods, deep pockets, and a bit of luck. Teaching forces me to stay sharp and focused as I practice what I preach. There is no magic to it. Nothing special about it. It is tiring, emotionally draining, and frustrating. The only thing that keeps me going is the profits. If there were some other way for me to make as much in a few hours as I do now, then believe me I would do it.

Too much sim is just as bad as too little. Sooner or later you have to take a plunge into the deep end. Swimming side to side in 3 ft of water is just not the same as making it to the other (deep) end of the pool.

The future is completely unknown. Back-testing creates the statistical probability that only forward real time cash trading can verify. I have first hand experience in blowing out my accounts trading that statistical probability.

That image of bags of money is the 1 in 100,000,000 trader. Likely you will never know about him or her.

For me, remaining flexible in a fluid environment has helped make a huge difference in my expectations and results.
So, for me, 1 tick is better than no ticks, a break-even is better than a stop out, and -10 is better than -20. I keep in mind that I am working, and that each trade must produce a profit. I focus on making a profit each time I click the mouse - as much as I can, with as little risk as I can, and accept the fact that I trade to make a living.

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  #220 (permalink)
Chicago, IL. USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: IRT, Bookmap
Broker: EdgeClear, Rithmic
Trading: ES/NQ/Volume Profile
 
Posts: 38 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 24 given, 79 received


I probably will be the poster-person for a slow learner.. I started in 1980 and am still learning every day... I know that despite all of it and having the opportunity to trade with some very large traders over the years that you can never take your eye off the ball or stop trying to improve.. This is not a static business...

When we discuss profitability I personally know several screen traders making in the 7 figure area... they trade huge numbers... That is not me... not my personality... these guys made the transition from the floor.

Personally I started as a screen trader, I couldn't afford to buy or lease a seat.. when I started a screen was a quote machine...

The point is, you can make it in this business and you don't need the holy grail to do it, but you do need a process that is consistent, is aligned with you psycologically and a money management structure that keeps you balanced.

Complexity - too many moving parts creates potential conflict... in the decision making process..simple is better... Screen time is an essential element if you are a discretionary trader - which I am... within a structured process...

Think about it - if there was a turn-key money machine we'd all go out and buy it and push our $ through it for a yield... then be financially independent... sorry... no freebies...

There's a lot of good information here.. If you have to "force" yourself to fit someone elses process then it will never be yours...Psycologically you must be aligned with your process..make it yours...what charts, instrument, timeframe, indicators, contracts, stops, targets, scales. Define a good trade, recognize a bad one.

Have a process/journal to modify behavior...

Losing $ in trading is tuition... try not to keep repeating the class.

You can succeed and it will be the most challanging journey you may ever go on.. but worth the sacrifice and self doubts along the way..just know all of us (I assume) have been or are there today.

Tom

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