Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable! - Trading Reviews and Vendors | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!
Updated: Views / Replies:61,831 / 334
Created: by bobbyacim Attachments:11

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors – all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you don’t need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 11  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!

  #141 (permalink)
Elite Member
Honolulu, Hawaii
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: ATC/TT, AMP/Zen-Fire, AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: TF
 
bluemele's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,547 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 3,806 given, 2,826 received


Michael.H View Post
We've been through the whole track record before. I even offered to do it, with my trades and account number wiped off, and the next post said that ," I bet its Photoshoped", and then there were 30 other replies after that saying that i'm just showing off or a fake.
So whoever that wanted that proof, its obvious that its not gonna matter.

Yes, I thought that was poor thinking.

Your comments are spot on and I agree 100%. If you don't have a large amount of 'reserves' you will put yourself in a situation like many of us that requires daily living allowances to accommodate your large screen time etc. and if you fall into the trap of buying this and buying that and losing 100K here and 100K there, before you know it, you need JOB! haha...

I can tell that certain people have different levels of experience and I have to tell you Michael that your posts are awesome.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to bluemele for this post:
 
  #142 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Minneapolis+ MN / USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: 6E
 
Posts: 28 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 1 given, 46 received

I see the OP has decided to stop. He is doing the right thing. Hopes and desires are hard to let go. I liked his honest questions.

Basically it was two questions. How in the world does anyone figure this trading stuff out? and If no one is willing to tell me how to do it, will someone at least show me a Profit and loss statement so at least I know someone is doing it.

I made an absolute fortune in 1983, and to this day I still do not know how people found out about it. But find out they did. How do you do it was all they wanted to know.

In the earrly 90's I entered a national trading contest and did not win it but did very well. But I learned my lesson. Refco wanted me to move to Chicago and run an account. But anything I did for them was going to be their property, so I declined.

I just got out of a second in lifetime trade in the grains last week. But everyone that knew I traded years ago thinks that I no longer trade, and I will keep it that way.

As for daytrading, you have to do the math. How many winners do you have, how many losers? That's it.

Take last Friday for example. There were over 30 trades that i saw, in just one commodity, on just one day! All I want is 2 of them. It's like that almost every day.

By the way, that fotune I made in '83. I lost all of it and more. I did that one more time after that too. And over the yrs I have quit trading vowing to totally give it up, 3 times.

So, no, I will never ever give a clue as to what I know. The dues for gaing the knowledge were too high.

Here's real pain. My wife found me in a corner of the basement once and I had to tell her that I lost everything. Pork bellies. Swiss Franc, sugar, I hate them.

This has been a diversion for me. As I never read or listen to anything having to do with the markets. I was however gratefull for the posts in theNinja Trader forums.

Reply With Quote
The following 12 users say Thank You to farmer55 for this post:
 
  #143 (permalink)
Elite Member
UK
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Broker/Data: Mirus/Zen
Favorite Futures: Futures - bonds, currencies, index
 
Posts: 288 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 70 given, 267 received



Linds View Post

So I think these 'requests' for 'proof' are coming from that place in the retail traders psyche that would like to not rely quite so much on faith especially while in the early stages of development.

You and others argue it is a fruitless and even destructive quest to see the proof of another retail traders profitability - that may be the case - but I think the sentiment is easy enough to understand.

The sentiment is easy to understand, yes, but the reason the reaction to it is quite strong is that the desire for proof is utterly wrong (and I'm not talking about trading trainers here, as I mentioned earlier - that's a separate topic)

Let me explain why it's wrong.

1. Many traders requiring proof would not know how to interpret it. It would be meaningless.
2. If you get proof, you'll probably want to just copy the method. This will greatly delay your advancement as a trader
3. Getting proof will prove to you that trading can be profitable for others. This is a bad thing. If you find this out it could well cost you a lot of money trying to be profitable in the wrong way
4. Getting proof that it's possible will tell you nothing about whether or not you can be profitable, which is the real question.

That last one is really important. People are tempted to say - well at least I know it's possible. Well clearly it's possible - just read market wizards. But whether it's possible for you is a much more important question than whether it's profitable in general.

So, my advice is, work out how you could determine whether a trading method is consistently possible. Have a little read about error and statistics. Have a read about luck, drawdown, sharpe ratios and risk of ruin. Find out about testing and in/out sample data. Then develop your own methods, and test them. Make them your own. You will be so much closer to being a profitable trader.

That's just my advice. There are other approaches, but I've found if you don't treat it somewhat as a science you're just surfing on the ups and downs of luck.

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to Xeno for this post:
 
  #144 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Auburn ma
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Td Ameritrade
Favorite Futures: es
 
Posts: 13 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 21 given, 5 received

Some thoughts about leaving trading

I have read alot here over the last couple of months. Some comments really bother me like traders saying we are your competition, Find what works for yourself I understand about self reliance however speaking for myself I come here because they are tired of getting screwed by the institutional PLAYERS and looked for help to approach trading . You think there would be more help since us small timers would band together. I would think that people would lend more of a helping hand so the learning curve wouldn't be so steep. I for one would like to put together an algorthym for trading. Surely at least the technicals would be more easily shared. I know there are alot of techniques and some like different ones But there still should be some consensus on what is a good approach like how many time perids to use beginning with 1,3,5days etc followed by 1,5, 15 min. then followed by the best ticks to select and when they all line up you have a higher success of a profitable trade. Input for what works best for what your trading like ES, CL, etc would be helpful as well.
One still has to learn to understand the marketand be aware of the geopoloitical events as well how the economic calender effects trading or not. No one give give you the right personality for trading some people will be good at this some others not. So far I have made 1588$ since Jan 10th but that has been just on intuition and use of a forecastesing service for 6 weeks. I have not traded knowing full well I need better understanding of set ups. So if there is anyone who wants to lend a hand I am listening. Thanks

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to kctpac for this post:
 
  #145 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
 
Posts: 1,081 since May 2010
Thanks: 2,092 given, 595 received

Bobby, BTW: you need proof ? Here's your proof :

https://futures.io/elite-trading-journals/8619-10-per-day-video-journal.html

You can see all his trades AND his account statement.

Ok it's not live, but who cares, you just have to do what he does with live trades and you're in the money !!!

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to MetalTrade for this post:
 
  #146 (permalink)
Banned: User asked to be banned
Calgary, Canada
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multiple
Broker/Data: Multiple
Favorite Futures: Multiple
 
Deucalion's Avatar
 
Posts: 430 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 103 given, 1,207 received


bluemele View Post
Yes, I agree, it is interesting. Not saying it isn't done, but if you asked 6,000 business owners if they would publish their Quickbooks P&L for the month on a forum then that could be an issue as well. I personally would if asked and it could be as anonymous as trading. For some reason, traders don't feel the comfort, or truly there are no profitable traders to do so? Or, the profitable traders just don't want to?

We had a few threads on this and I think some traders seeing a profitable trader in action is a nice thing. But the reality is that few will truly hit the 2,000% per month returns that many claim throughout the trading world.

They wanted to burn Galileo at the stake because he said some so heretical that he was considered either mad or evil or both. Then, as now, truth was/is stranger than fiction. You can believe what your mind has been bullied into believing. At this point, the truth won't even matter.

Then there is the concept that if such profitable traders existed, I doubt anyone could ever convince them of truly simply coming up with their PNL for the sake of convincing someone with an internet logon of their ability. They would gladly accept anonymity, silence and derision.

Does that sound completely alien and unrealistic? If it does, you are simply not open minded enough....yet.

BTW - who is claiming 2000% a month?

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Deucalion for this post:
 
  #147 (permalink)
Elite Member
Honolulu, Hawaii
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: ATC/TT, AMP/Zen-Fire, AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: TF
 
bluemele's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,547 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 3,806 given, 2,826 received


Deucalion View Post
They wanted to burn Galileo at the stake because he said some so heretical that he was considered either mad or evil or both. Then, as now, truth was/is stranger than fiction. You can believe what your mind has been bullied into believing. At this point, the truth won't even matter.

Then there is the concept that if such profitable traders existed, I doubt anyone could ever convince them of truly simply coming up with their PNL for the sake of convincing someone with an internet logon of their ability. They would gladly accept anonymity, silence and derision.

Does that sound completely alien and unrealistic? If it does, you are simply not open minded enough....yet.

BTW - who is claiming 2000% a month?

Open minded. Hmmmm. What does that mean? I can't open my mind long enough to question myself.

And, per your question. YES, it does sound alien that people will buy Lamborghini's, multi-million dollar mansions, private jets, box seats at sporting events, blah blah blah and yet, they are concerned that an anonymous trading statement would bankrupt them.

In a world that relishes materialism and scoffs at people who 'just don't get it' (materialism and the greed or fascination of money money money) then it is hard to believe they will pay for all those items, but 'don't want to be noticed' by others for their ability to build wealth.

Look, I have made a few million, I was lucky enough to do it somewhat young. I had learned that I am cool and poor people suck and they just don't 'get it' and it is a lack of 'hard work' and diligence and perseverance etc.. I am the best, others aren't or my class of people are better than your class of people or I can buy things that you can't, blah blah blah.... The only person who can see my financial statement is my CPA because because because...

I don't want to see anyone's statements, well, yes I do if they claim something. If I was on a real estate side and some new developers said, I want to see your balance sheet or financial statement, I would balk. No doubt. But, I think it is a bit different game as I can show ownership of an asset and you can quickly surmise what reality is within that investment within about 5 seconds if you have any experience.

With trading, beginning traders are reaching out saying, can someone show me some profitability because I have given it my all and I am coming up short. Some NEED to see that glimmer of hope as that is what drives them to move forward. You can say, 'well, those people are weak, and that would just be more trouble for everyone'....

I agree that too much negativity is cast out and saying well, you can't prove it, but this is the only profession I know that is so guarded in secrecy that you can't actually figure out what someone has done. To some, following is a way to get started, to others, it isn't and we all have different paths. I have seen vendors that start with something, and a student takes it to a whole new level beyond the original.

I love when people use the words 'right' and 'wrong'. or 'should'. I used it in a post last night and I laugh everytime I am so RIGHT and everyone should do what I tell them and believe what I believe etc.. We are all wrong. Every time, wrong. In some dimension, in some way, but we are also right. Just a matter in my opinion of the context one can see when making that decision.

Done w/ this conversation for now. We are all too smart for our own good.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to bluemele for this post:
 
  #148 (permalink)
Elite Member
Paradise, USA
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Big Charts
Favorite Futures: E-mini, Forex, Futures, Equities, Options
 
rtrade's Avatar
 
Posts: 502 since Nov 2010
Thanks: 578 given, 375 received


Michael.H View Post

What makes you think you can do it with an account that small?

This is all my opinion of course, and personal experience. If anyone is willing to prove how then can make 50k+ a year with a 10k account, i would really like to meet that person, and let him trade my account. I will even split the profits with him.

Are you SERIOUS? But then again, I'll take your word that you're an accomplished Trader/Master.

If I accomplish this, how do you propose trading your account and splitting profits?

And if I build up my trading account to 50k, what incentive do I have in trading your account....more Leverage?

thanks

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." --- "Therefore, I Believe it and I will see it. And every day and in every way, I am healthier, wealthier, and wiser."
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to rtrade for this post:
 
  #149 (permalink)
Elite Member
Quebec
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker/Data: Stage 5 trading/AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,695 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,041 given, 4,490 received

Once upon a time a student desparately wishing to attain self-realisation asked his master, what is GOD ? His master replied... that's something you must experience by yourself. End of discussion

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to trendisyourfriend for this post:
 
  #150 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Minneapolis+ MN / USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: 6E
 
Posts: 28 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 1 given, 46 received


kctpac

I'll lend a helping hand. It will be something you will not want to hear. And others will say "If you can't say something constructive, don't say anything." But it will be the best advice you will get.

I for one would like to put together an algorthym for trading. Surely at least the technicals would be more easily shared. I know there are alot of techniques and some like different ones But there still should be some consensus on what is a good approach like how many time perids to use beginning with 1,3,5days etc followed by 1,5, 15 min. then followed by the best ticks to select and when they all line up you have a higher success of a profitable trade.

Forget all that stuff you just wrote! Not one of those things is going to make you money! It's all the same worthless stuff. It's unending. It just doesn't work.

You've already bought into the notion that new and better indicators are all that stand between you and success.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to farmer55 for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Dec 7

Linda Bradford Raschke: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TEN-THOUSAND IN EDUCATION, FINALLY PAYING OFF bobbyacim Trading Reviews and Vendors 303 March 15th, 2017 03:55 AM
Homeland-Security Business Still Booming Ten Years Later Quick Summary News and Current Events 0 May 29th, 2011 11:30 AM
Journey of a thousand ticks drmartell Elite Trading Journals 24 November 14th, 2010 12:33 PM
Top Ten Reasons I'm Ready To Leave My Home Office tigertrader Off-Topic 8 August 26th, 2010 11:32 AM
Enter to win: Ten commission free trades from Mirus Futures Big Mike Feedback and Announcements 12 June 30th, 2010 10:26 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:59 AM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-11-18 in 0.15 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.162.250.227