Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable! - futures io
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Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!


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Ten-thousand in Education and still not profitable!

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  #101 (permalink)
Houston,Tx
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
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Posts: 2,302 since Feb 2010
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farmer55 View Post
Monpere

I give up trying to explain to him that he is looking in the wrong place. The original post was about spending $10,000, and not getting what he payed for. But he's still trying these same ideas. Give up already and throw all that stuff away. But that is not what he wants to hear.

It's kinda like losing at poker. You know should cut your losses and walk away from the table, but you want to stay and "Get My Money Back" . So you stay and continue losing only now you're angry and scared. Eventually you can't Ante Up and they make you leave the table . So you go to the bar and have a few drinks to calm down and then you start thinking that the game must be rigged and you've been hood winked and no one every really wins at poker it's all a farce to cheat small guys like you out of your money. So you rail at anyone within listening distance in the bar about what a frickin scam Las Vegas is ... until everyone gets tired of listening to you and security throws you out and the Casino bans you.

The next morning you start looking for a better Casino.

Or maybe that's just me...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #102 (permalink)
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Manta, Ecuador
 
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
Not recently... he died in 1997.

"Let the boy marry your grandma! Who cares what people think?!"

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  #103 (permalink)
Legendary  Vendor: www.jigsawtrading.com 
Bangkok
 
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Platform: MultiCharts.NET, S5, Ninj
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I have just read the OP.

It seems everyone thinks it's his fault.

It isn't.

There's a combination of 2 factors at play. Them & Him.

Them - well, they are mostly a bunch of charlatans. That includes people like Elder, Link, Carter, Slater, Darvas, Nison etc. etc. etc. This certainly includes 99.999% of trading web sites.

It's all bunk. Total nonsense. Absolute bloody rubbish.

I know 4 people that make a living from day trading:

1 - Trades stocks on earnings & runs fund money to the tune of about $40M. It's sort of borrowed fund money. They trade stocks on/ahead of earnings. They also trade reactive to news. They trade anything. Will trade 30+ stocks a day. 1 trader supported by 3 analysts.
2 - Trades 40 or so stocks based on watching them every day for years. He knows the stocks like old friends. Trades his own account. Trades alone.
3 - Trades futures based on many years of experience & with extensive use of Tape & DOM. Uses a combination of price action & tape reading to get in on larger day moves. Trades alone - 1 or 2 trades a day.
4 - Trades news stocks based on L2 & Tape. Goes for sustained moves but with extremely tight exit criterias. Trades 8-10 times a day, many break even trades looking for an extended move.

The one thing about these people is that although they have different styles, they stick with what they do. They are experts at it. If they taught you everything tomorrow, you'd not be as good as them at what they do. It takes months and maybe even a year or more to get there.

So therein lies the problem. If you learn something from any web site called "e-mini" something - it is SURE to be bunk. Even if you focused on that for a decade, you'd still be trying to polish a turd. On the other hand, you will inevitably doubt your teacher even when taught something solid because you will never be good at it until it becomes second nature.

So - learn off someone that is profitable. Stick with what they teach. Journal the results & make it your own.

I can't see any other way. I do wholeheartedly believe in getting trained - just not by a monkey.

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  #104 (permalink)
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009


DionysusToast View Post
So - learn off someone that is profitable. Stick with what they teach. Journal the results & make it your own.
.

I agree 100%.. issue is, no-one wants to do hard work.. which is why all those sites with emini make more money from subscriptions than from actual trading about 90% of the time... everyone just wants traffic light solutions..


DionysusToast View Post
I can't see any other way. I do wholeheartedly believe in getting trained - just not by a monkey.

I agree 100% again... but as usual, the monkey will make it seem easy.. so most people will go with it because of the antics... and shun away from the difficulty of the real master... at the same time, because no-one wants to put the time and effort, those real masters just dont care to teach given their expectations are that you wont do the hard work.. unless you prove them otherwise

both things, learning and getting trained take time... most traders just like to go about it the easy way...

all the monkeys get the attention because they are claiming that you can make $1MM a year on an hour a day with minimal risk and investment.. which in reality is not a lie... just that it would require at least a $250K account and averaging 2%-3% net every single day.. which is of course not realistic for a new trader with $5K account and no idea of how to trade.. considering that is hard to be net possitive every single day.

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  #105 (permalink)
Auburn ma
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Td Ameritrade
Trading: es
 
Posts: 23 since Jan 2011
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I am a newbie and I 've learned 3 things about trading to be profitable good technicals
Know the market
the right mindset
______________

= profit -ability

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  #106 (permalink)
Los Angeles
 
 
Posts: 131 since Mar 2011
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Things that always seem to ruin me and my success is taking others advice or system or any other small detail that I am not able to test myself and blindly use. Not only in trading.

Things like Stop Loss. It is a whole science to where one should put it. This phrase you won't find that often in forums. They will just tell you "SL behind the last swing" and I tell you, it's bullshit! Don't listen to them! Stop listening! To anything. Just look at the chart and look yourself where you put it. The idea of stoploss: to put it as close as possible but where it is least likely reached! That's it!

I don't want to call myself profitable even though I start having consistent success. A year from now, if I am success, I will tell you here in this very thread. I will also tell you, if I had no success.

Small exercise: Look at EURUSD H1 chart from February 13 until today. Tell me, on what days would you short the pair?

Waiting for your answer.

Sorry I had to use larger letters (my eyes)


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  #107 (permalink)
Springfield,Missouri, USA
 
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Trading: CL, TF, 6E
 
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The OP's question assumes that education and trading success are related to each other. I don't believe they are.
success has much less to do with education and much more to do with discipline and the right mindset.
Discipline will lead to consistency. With even a modicum of consistency, patterns in your behavior can be identified and adjusted. Without some sort of consistency, it is impossible to improve as a trader since your results will essentially be random. If your results are random, you can't even identify problems much less correct them.
This is why everyone says you must keep a trade journal & log all of your trades. But I can tell you, if you don't stick with one method and trade it consistently, that trading journal is useless.
Most all traders want instant success or they have unrealistic goals. This leads them to "system search". They will try a system for a few days or weeks and if their expectations aren't met, they will move on, assuming that the system is the reason they are not making money. The reality is that poor behavior patterns are the reason they fail. But without sticking with one system long enough, those patterns never have a chance to reveal themselves.
Sooner or later you have to admit that the only common denominator in all of the failed systems you tried is you. Once you can fully embrace this, then you can stick with one system, even if you consistently lose, long enough to start seeing the behavior patterns that are causing you to lose. Only then can you stand a chance at correcting the true weak link in your trading... and it has nothing to do with how much you have spent on education.

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  #108 (permalink)
new york
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: mb trading
Trading: 6e
 
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Posts: 184 since Feb 2010

Dear Folks,,
I have finally thrown in the towel, -I quit this fools game of thinking I can anticipate the behavior of thousands of traders in the span of a few minutes, and do it consistantly day in and day out. Hey if George Soros admited that his trade of the century was a one-in-a-life-time occurance; then who am to think I can do that day-in and day-out.

I am going back to working on constructing a convential business or opening a franschise where according to the department of commerce, I will have at least a 30-40% chance of success for at least the first 5 years!!!

It's so funny that over 6,000 have viewed this post and no one has been able to sqash this topic by offering any kind of proof of long term sustained profitability.

Thank you for all the input and I wish everyone eventual success.

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  #109 (permalink)
 
 
Posts: 1,081 since May 2010


bobbyacim View Post
Dear Folks,,
I have finally thrown in the towel, -I quit this fools game of thinking I can anticipate the behavior of thousands of traders in the span of a few minutes, and do it consistantly day in and day out. Hey if George Soros admited that his trade of the century was a one-in-a-life-time occurance; then who am to think I can do that day-in and day-out.

I am going back to working on constructing a convential business or opening a franschise where according to the department of commerce, I will have at least a 30-40% chance of success for at least the first 5 years!!!

It's so funny that over 6,000 have viewed this post and no one has been able to sqash this topic by offering any kind of proof of long term sustained profitability.

Thank you for all the input and I wish everyone eventual success.

I wish you all the best in your business.

You know what Bobby, I'm sure you will run your business better because of your trading ordeal. No really, you will be harder and more consistent, hence even more active on number crunching.

Just go for it buddy, grab the market by the balls and shake all the money out of it, you deserve it. Remember 1 thing : PROFIT, make sure you don't just do business, do business only when you got the profit. There are too much people going into business grabbing deals and working on them without earning enough.

May the force be with you!

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  #110 (permalink)
Springfield,Missouri, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader (It's a love/hate relationship)
Trading: CL, TF, 6E
 
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Posts: 176 since May 2010
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This raises another point: Trading cannot just be about making money. You MUST have a passion for trading. The markets place traders under some of the most adverse psychological stress possible. If it's only about money for you, there are easier ways to do it. Trading is without a doubt the hardest way of making easy money.
I trade because I can't do anything else. I love it. I'm addicted to it. Doing anything else for the rest of my life would be a death sentence. I love the game that much.

I appreciate Bobby's honesty and openness. Never, ever, ever give up and you will find your passion. And it has nothing to do with money. Do what you love and you will never work another day in your life. If you find your passion & it also pays the mortgage and groceries, then you'll be the luckiest man on earth.

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