I followed the eminisniper trades since friday to see what the fuss is about.
I'm not going to explain the system since I understand that they worked something out, and if you want it, go pay for it.
Last Friday, they took 3 trades in the room on the 6E (the 6E is the instrument it should work the best) and all 3 were losers.
This morning I traded their system, I took 2 of their standard trades (live) with 3 contracts like I always do, both of them stopped out. They were perfect entries according to a seasoned eminisniper trader.
Then I took 1 divergence trade, the so called highest-probability trade, and again it was a looser. It was a perfect entry according to their system.
So far, I can't say I'm impressed with their system. They say January hasn't been good compared to last year.
interesting to hear about your observations of eminisniper.
Would you mind posting the entries for the trades of this morning ?
I like to use oscillator divergences, too, and trade bounces from moving averages, but only when there is confluence with certain areas of the market profile, so that limits the number of trades drastically (but also increases accuracy).
While I have found good ways of employing market profile in trading, I feel my technical analysis could be improved upon, that's why I've been thinking of taking a look at eminisniper.
Will also explore ESFXtrader's CCL scalping method, quite impressing !
E.G., I had one setup at 8.03 Paris time in the EUR/USD - short at about 1.2917... confirmed by divergence. No further setups thus far in the EUR/USD.
I have been on vacation, so I don't really know how the markets moved the past few days, but It seems that even though the eminisniper system trades with the trend, the system actually gets very few entries in strong trends. Because they trade deep pullbacks, they miss all the shallow pullbacks of very strong trends. There has been an occasional mention of an alternative entry method to catch some of these shallow pullbacks, but it is not an official part of the method, I think, and they do not trade that entry in the room.
The following user says Thank You to monpere for this post:
Sorry guys, I can't give anything about the trades, I don't find that fair since it's a commercial system, I payed to use it, not to give information about it away.
Since I joined because everybody was raving about the results, I feel that I can also post my results, and they are BAD. I lost money (more than $1500 now) by taking those trades of them, but that's completely my responsibility.
I see in another post, you urged traders to learn from your mistakes and to use SIM until profitable, which I agree with 100%. Why didn't you take that advice with a new method?
I entered on the exact same way you should enter, just like they enter in the room. On the exact same price level. Stop limit orders.
They are saying that December was great, but January is not. Well, I'm trading in January, not in last month. I don't care about my trades in December, that was December. I care about my current trades now.
hmm, without showing anything what someone talks about here (trades / charts .... ) negative storys are the same as positive storys for me : pushing , bashing, useless.
this doesnt help any one here .
just my 2 cent.
max-td
The following 2 users say Thank You to max-td for this post:
Because he's probably not a new / struggling trader and is not mesmerized by charlatans who put a system on the market, then for example:
1. Have 2 moderators, neither of whom trade the system the same way.
2. Continually pass on setups that are valid according to their rules.
3. Often take trades that are not valid according to their rules.
4. Trade single contracts with, for example, a 6 to 8 tick target and then explain they often only get 1 setup per day. (Look at their Youtube video and then decide if you think that represents 1 or 2 setups per day.) Then do the math with a single contract and 1 or 2 setups per day (most of them losing lately) and decide if what they are making is going to further your financial cause.
5. Foolishly play "whack-a-chart" looking at way too many markets, missing setups while looking at products they do not trade, and then pointing out the winning trades that they missed on the markets their method is marketed to work with.
6. Changing the system already. (One guy is using one type of candle, the other guy switched to another.)
7. Explaining to the room their poor performance is due to the fact that the markets are "really quiet" or "just not moving" when each day over 300,000 contracts are trading on both their primary markets, it's the first week of January, and there have been ample extended moves in both directions every day.
8. Started taking trades on CL for the first time (according to one of the moderators) just this week and seem really amazed by CL volatility.
9. Actually asked the students in the room if there was any news events to be aware of when trading CL.
Very nice and friendly guys, and quite clear they are not making their money from trading.
The following 5 users say Thank You to timefreedom for this post:
Timefreedom - I could not have said it better. I have been with them since they started and you hit the nail on the head with all of your concerns. There is no doubt in my mind that they have not been using this system very long and they have probably created it just to open a room.
The following 2 users say Thank You to SawDr for this post:
I also bought the system just to check it out because it was very inexpensive, and I've written an indicator with the rules as I understand them. Using HeikenAshi bars with the strict rules it is not profitable, and breaks even if I add a coupe of my own filters. Using Range bars it loses money no matter how I traded it.
The following 3 users say Thank You to monpere for this post:
today's 6e 3 range chart had 3 divergence trades and 2 wins, 1 loss.
long at 5:45 am central, winner
long at 6:38 am central, loser
long at about 10:48 am central, winner
That's the way I see it.
The following 2 users say Thank You to MWinfrey for this post:
entries that I mentioned earlier. I'm not including the indicators for the same reasons others have mentioned. However, I marked the entries on a clean 3 range chart. If you have the system, then you can look at your chart to confirm.
The following 2 users say Thank You to MWinfrey for this post:
The second trade at 6:38 you took was just in front of a trendline acting as resistance. The current directional bias at that time was to the downside and the MACD (12,26,9) was on the verge to kiss it's zero line. This is a very typical trade i usually take which i call fading the MACD zero line. Many breakouts occur when the MACD is approaching, kissing or even moving over it's zero line. If there is enough volatility, you can try as you did the breakout but you need to be prepared and accept a small lost while reversing your position to go in the direction of the current bias. In such a risky situation, i'd open a light position maybe 1 unit but be prepared to open an opposite position with 2 units hence closing the first one while resuming with the flow. If this second attempt should fail then i'd wait for the next opportunity. I would consider this scenario as a whole trade. In your situation, the whole trade would have worked. But you need to be prepared ahead of time for this type of trade management as you don't want to think about it while it happens. You need to think about it as a whole scenario that has been planned ahead of time.
The following 2 users say Thank You to trendisyourfriend for this post:
Not really because of the way the entries are placed. However, don't want to mislead anyone. I didn't take those entries. Those are picked out after the fact just to see how things are going. I'm not trading that system. I have enough to do trading my own.
My charts show your 1st and 3rd trades as 'No Entry' because of an unmet price swing criteria, and the 2nd entry as a loser, using 6 tick stop, 5 tick target. Not sure if this is because of different data feeds, or interpretation of the unmet price action criteria. That criteria is actually not very specific in the documentation, but I use an Ninja indicator with standard inputs to determine that criteria.
Hi, wanted to know what indy you like best for looking at MP values? and screenshot if you don't mind. I was using MPValues indy but don't know where I can confirm if the values are correct. Also, do you use other values than those simple 3, i.e. VAH, VAL & POC? Thanks a million, gh
I trade the 6E 3 range, and I think it is a slow!!! compared to the CL 3 range that I also trade. But yes, you are correct, compared to periods that most traders trade, both of these are extremely fast pace for most traders. I can't enter on these charts manually. Given that these are range bars, I know where the bar is going to close in advance, and I have automated entries already waiting where the bar will close way ahead of time.
The following 2 users say Thank You to monpere for this post:
Is anyone surprised that once enough people really check out the truth claims of those selling a system that they find out the the system all of asudden doesn't work, and/or the sellers are not making money by trading, but by selling.
I stand by my claims/observations in the $10000 question on another thread.
If anyone tells you the secret location to where their buried treasure is, you can be sure the treasure is worthless.
No one gives up their edge.
The following user says Thank You to farmer55 for this post:
The system is working for me. After 3 weeks of sim trading, I went live starting at the beginning of the year and I am +109 pips.
I think if a trader puts the time into learning the system, they will have a good chance at success. I also think that if a trader wants to make a system look like a failure, they can succeed at that easily too.
The following 2 users say Thank You to sunpost for this post:
You guys can say what you want, but I used the entries as described by the system, taking care of all the rules. And so far I hadn't had a winning trade yet.
Once more we can see what is working for one trader would not work for the other. I have been using it for about one month now. I'm trading every day from 4:00AM-6:00AM EST and from 8:00AM-11:30AM EST. Since Dec 17, 2010 I had 121 trades I'm up 261 ticks. I took one big loss due to my own doing. I moved my stop and I added to bad trade. I paid the price.
In closing system is OK and it is working for me and this is the most importnt factor.
MetalTrade, and tickvix, can you guys both choose a day (same day) when you traded and both post your trades for that day and we can compare your trades and see how there can be such a discrepancy in the system? For the record, I haven't been able to get the system to be profitable for me either, but I don;t trade the system, I just wrote an indicator that marks up the trades.
I have have shown my trades already once before, but if needed I will post again. I did make some changes to stops. I use between 8-10 ticks stop and 8-16-24 ticks targets. I will move my targets based on the price movement. Please no need to comment if this is going to work and by using such money management rules I'm going to loose money. I also made changes to one trade and trade is working for me. So all in all I made this system to meet my own way of trading. I'm happy the way I'm trading.
TickVix/Gregory
The following user says Thank You to tickvix for this post:
Monpere - midn post that indicator that marks up these trades that could save some time as I am manually trying to compare against entering retrace from 20 EMA in place of 50EMA
I can post the charts resulting from the indicator in the manner that eminisniper posts their official charts on youtube, but I cannot share the indicator, as that would reveal the details of their methodology.
Here is the 6E 3range HeikenAshi bars, which they use in the room, for the entire day yesterday, Jan 11. I don't claim that my code captures their rule set 100%, but it is to the best of my understanding. Simple arrows show winning trades, circled arrows show losing trades, arrows and circled arrows in gray show entries that were invalidated by a violation of a rule so they would not be a valid trades. I generally do this to play with filters and see how changing certain filters will affect the trades. I am using 5 tick stops, 5 tick profit. I have the divergences marked, but I take them entries with them. Time is New York timezone.
The following 5 users say Thank You to monpere for this post:
If you look at my charts in post #149 with the indicator entries, and took all the trades with a 2:1 reward/risk ratio, 10 tick target/5 Tick stop, you would have been profitable at the end of the day.
we will all love to have this positive ratio, but is very hard to hit target when u have only small SL, like this, so you may hit more SLs this way. I am not being negative, but practical
I trade everyday, 6E, GLD, 3 range charts with 2:1 reward/risk, 3 tick stop, 6 tick target. It all depends on the system that you trade. If you are trading 20ma and 40 ma cross overs, yes, that kind of stop/target will kill you, but if you are trading 2 or 3 bar divergences, you can make a killing instead. Look at the chart in post #149 and count the ticks on all the entries, then come back and tell us if trading that stop/target that day would have, or not been profitable.
Took 2 trades today. On the first trade, the trade was going wrong and the creator of the system said, this is looking bad, I'm not going to risque more than 4 ticks so he moved his stop, and so did I, because they asked me to follow them strictly on only the divergence trades (conservative ones). We got stopped out. So no winner again. Sigh.
Then there was a very nice divergence trade according to the book. They said: I'm not taking it because Trichet is speaking but I did took it because it really looked nice and managed to take 9 ticks out it.
So there you have it, my first 1 contract 9 ticks trade with the eminisniper system! I hope I catch some more of them. The 6E was very easy to trade today. Plenty of opportunities. Today I would say the divergence trades worked on the 6E.
That is a divergence that occurs within that many bars, most traders see that as noise on a chart, and never give that a 2nd look, but in certain circumstances, they are trade-able patterns to me.
The following 2 users say Thank You to monpere for this post:
2 or 3 bar divergence - would be burned out with slippage for these quick entries ? unless you submit a lmt order and live with whether it gets filled or not
The bar setup has nothing to do with your trade parameters. You can trade a 2 bar divergence on a 3 range chart or a 250 range chart. I you are entering the trade looking for a 125 ticks target then 1 or 2 ticks slippage is nothing. If your target is 4 ticks, then 1 tick slippage is 1/4 of your profit. I trade 6 or 8 tick targets, and I do not accept any slippage on my entries. You have to go with a stop/limit order, if it is not filled, then wait for the next trade.
The following 3 users say Thank You to monpere for this post:
Beth,
Just wondering what instrument you have been trading with these e mini sniper people .. 6E ?; I see you mention the TF in your bio; I have had no success with ES as seems too range bound for my taste and I suspect too many computer systems chasing it; so, using a mixture of other ideas from other rooms that have paid for over the years, and my own indicators have gotten used to TF with some success; also YM; I do find that sort of getting to "know your trading instrument" is almost as important as your indicators and methology; this one interests me as by all accounts is clear and simple; however am a little loath to switch to the 6E. Also as I am a "reads the manual" type of person interested in getting their manual to ponder over; is it well written and clear...??
Also are you still as enthusiastic about it...?? and profitable..??
rg
I think the ES works quite well for some people. I think it depends on your technique. I see people from the group I trade in that pull a couple points most days. I personally haven't had too much luck with it, but not invested more than a month or two trading it.
I Looked at trades for the past month using the indicator I wrote to capture their rule set, and it doesn't look too bad, it gets about 45% win ratio using a 2/1 reward/risk, fixed 5 tick stop, 10 tick target, trading 6E 3Range HeikenAshi, 8:00am to 4:00pm EST. Those numbers would make it a winning strategy theoretically. As this is an indicator, there is no accounting for fills, slippage, etc. Let's hope it's not a fluke.
I am kinda surprised actually! But, I am using a fixed mechanical trade management, different then what the authors do, cause I fall in the mechanical trading camp - 'That's just the way I roll' I actually experienced the same with my own scalping system which consistently teetered between break even and losing, using a 1/1 reward/risk ratio. I became profitable overnight by biting the bullet and going for a 2:1 fixed reward/risk ratio. It wasn't easy, that meant I had to stay in trades for 90 seconds rather then 45 seconds
I think the authors also say you can scratch an active trade, if one of their indicators reaches the opposite cycling extreme, which I did not program. That supposedly would reduce the number of losers or size of losers, but this theory only works when applied to just losing trades in hindsight, as people tend to do. In reality that tactic will also scratch a good number of trades that would have been winners.
Maybe some of you 'discretionary' guys can discretion your way around this method and turn it into an 80% win ratio . Sorry, I can't resist taking a shot at the discretionary guys now and then .
The following 2 users say Thank You to monpere for this post:
Things must have really changed then since last November. According to their youtube videos, they seemed to pull in the pips at will with 50 pips daily at the minimum.
I wonder if anyone has backtested the signals shown in the videos.
Yeah, that is why I bought their system, after watching the youtube videos. Since they had a special sale at the time for $99, I decided to buy it just to check it out. But hey, as a vendor, are you gonna put up video on you tube where you loose 10 trades out of 12? No, you are gonna be an expert cherry picker. The videos on youtube appear sporadically, maybe they only record the 1 or 2 better days they have every month. Even the clock on the wall that doesn't work tells the correct time at least twice a day
The following user says Thank You to monpere for this post:
The problem is, the YouTube video completely misrepresents the method. When I purchased, and as of this date 1/14/11, it says on their website "With the Eminisniper Targeted Trading System you may have 12 winning trades before the U.S. markets even open. You may have 20 trades available before lunch." When you combine that statement with their Youtube video showing trade after trade after trade, you are led to believe that you might actually have several trades to choose from each day. And that is simply false. I know folks will come in here now and point out that technically it's true, you "may" have a bunch of trades. And if they come here and portray that this has actually happened, they are simply being dishonest. In fact, read Beth's journal going back to when she started trading the method. She has pretty much chronicled the trades that she has taken according to their system. In fact, since most of the trades the mods have actually taken in the room have failed this week, I suspect Beth is outperforming the mods by simply not trading this method.
One day this week, one of the room moderators had exactly one trade for the whole day according to his criteria. That trade occurred at 7:33. He claims he looks for an 8 tick first target (with one contract) and his trade reached 5 ticks gross then turned and went the other way. At first, he claimed it would have been a break even trade. A little later, he admitted that he didn't even take it. So, they run the chat from 8 to 12 a.m. EST. There were no valid trades during that time period. The one valid trade that did occur set up before 8, but the moderator didn't actually take it. And for good measure, the trade failed.
Enjoy.
The following 4 users say Thank You to timefreedom for this post:
Yup, I was introduced to divergence by Roger at Felton trading room a few years ago. I am almost purely a divergence trader now, but I no longer use the indicators he uses. Although I hear he has some impressive customized or proprietary indicators now.
I attended one of their webinars in '07 or '08 ...didn't end up joining although I had a good impression. I guess the ATS they were running back then kept me from taking the course as it was clear that its results were too good to be true.
I think the combination works better then either one alone. I don't share my parameters, I killed the guy I learned them from . Actually, I spent a couple of years studying the Stoch, RSI and MACD indicators to optimize my parameters, but I think the default params work well for most systems.
The following user says Thank You to monpere for this post:
I have 6E and DX on though I only trade 6E. I prefer having DX aligned with a 6E signal before diving in. This week I have CL on as well and may trade once daily IF I really like the signal in the coming week. Other than 6E, DX and CL, I have not tried the set-up on other instruments. Some traders have been sharing their results in the room .. seemed working quite well on GC (gold) and EMD.
It's been 2.5 months and I still like its simplicity and effectiveness. I am neither green nor red as I took my time to better understand the signals esp the ones with divergence (= higher win rate) + I succeeded in removing the safety wheels I added. I agree with many who suggested creating one's trading system and plan is the most critical success factor.
In early Jan some of my trading friends took the same three sniper trades yet their EOD results were as follows:
Trader No 1 30 pips
Trader No 2 24 pips
Trader No 3 15 pips
Trader No 4 50+ pips (he only took one trade)
Trader No 5 (me) Nil (I chose to SOH)
Lesson learned: Different trading preference/style (for example, nimble and hold until SL gets hit) matters a lot! It can easily turn a winner to a loser or a scalping winner to a runner or vice versa or .. ..
For me, I realize the challenge to have a runner when I am doing only 1-contract trades. Plus I choose to respect my scalping personality (not comfortable to stay in a trade for minutes). I will continue using the sniper set-up. If I come across any additional indicator(a) that will make the set-up more profitable/effective, I won't mind testing it/them out. Will stay with 1-2 maximum changes though plus doing my best not to overload my chart with indicators.
I will give the system and myself more time.
Have a Relaxing weekend.
Beth
Good Trading is about Trading Right!
Want What the Market Wants!
Trade With the Trend!
The following 9 users say Thank You to wgreenie for this post:
This method has been highly profitable for me and few of my trading friends. .
We start in early London - and wait patiently for the highest probability setups that this method produces .. .
In the London session we get 2 to 3 high probability setups , and we take it. .. ( Nov - Dec )
In January - The London session has been a bit slow, but a few good in between ..
Yesterday and today, volatility picked up, and the Euro all of a sudden started to move..
And we picked good - high probability trades in the UK session .. .
I simply love this method -- And I sure am going to continue to trade this...
The following 3 users say Thank You to Biggz for this post:
Here are the trade setups we had and took today and yesterday ( London session ) - - been slow this week - but today and yesterday we had some moevement - great setups we had .. .
The following 4 users say Thank You to Biggz for this post:
The point of the HA bars is to hide the actual price action and make the bars uniform. If I were to trade these charts, which I don't, I would pick a direction, lets' say long, and take every trade when a trend line is broken to go in the direction of the trend. I even picked long when the trend was down just for fun (homage to TRO green rat). I understood that you use HA without a bunch of other indicators / oscillators / etc.
Good luck to you guys on this.
Andrew
The following 6 users say Thank You to AR01 for this post:
Glad your trades were winners. Here's what the indicator I'm playing with saw during the time period you traded on Jan 14. It did not think your trades at 2:40 and 3:20 technically met all criteria, but as always, a human being can make more discretionary judgments as to what is close enough, and will generally out trade a computer. It did see 3 different winning trades during that time though.
Over all, for Jan 13, and 14, it saw 9 winners and 9 losers looking at London and New York market hours, but it uses 5 tick stop, 10 tick targets, which means it would have still been profitable for those 2 days. You can see near the end of the time period on the chart it was at 7 wins 0 losses from the start of the London market, but it had a string of losers later, mainly during consolidations. Those can probably be filtered out, but there are no official rules on that though to my knowledge, other then pure human eye-balling.
The following 3 users say Thank You to monpere for this post:
No, this chart has an indicator I am programming to capture the eminisniper rules, but I do not trade the eminisniper method. The arrows on the chart are drawn by the indicator based on the eminisniper trade entries. The last arrow on the chart shows an eminisniper divergence trade entry.
The following 2 users say Thank You to monpere for this post:
Congratulations on your success. Appears to me that you've changed the entry rules a bit from what they teach which is obviously working and kudos to you. For example, the first trade went through the support level in the price panel too far invalidating the entry. A couple others didn't meet other criteria in the stoch panel. Not that any of this matters because what you're doing is apparently successful. Just wanted to point out some of the differences to what is being taught. Maybe you should be the moderator for the chatroom.
The following 2 users say Thank You to MWinfrey for this post:
Very cool Monpere...my version looks like this for that period. Interesting that mine picked up a different divergence than your's did. Notice my comments on the chart about the divergence.
People who trade this system successfully aren't following the room's rules and have made some extra adjustments ?
That's a joke right ? I mean, I join a room and buy a book to learn their system, it's not profitable and then other users brag about being positive but they change the rules ?
I don't believe it, sorry.
I would also ask the moderators to focus on 1 market the 6E, even if you have no trading signals. Now they are constantly talking and looking at other markets but are missing their main focus the 6E. It's very confusing. I see them talk about trades on the CL and see people giving advise in the chatbox of the room: enter long on the CL because X and Y, I look at it and it screams for a short, and shortly after it goes down, I hear nobody talk anymore. With the stops you have to use on the CL you WILL get slaughtered. The 6E hasn't been slow or choppy lately, it has been super active, but just not giving eminisniper signals. That's ok for me, but not for other users in the room. I hear them say: it's working great on CL !!! While I see it's absolutely not. There is a difference in trading life and in sim. They need to get their shit together and focus on something so they become high probability traders again like they did in November/December.
They are really helpful and very kind and don't want you to loose money but so far it has costed me a lot of money. I'm loosing every day when I take their trades. I had only 1 winner so far but they advised me not to take it, but I didn't listen. Seems to be the pattern at eminisniper, if you don't follow the rules you win
You are unhappy since it is does not work for you and you are looking for support OK I'm sorry it does not work for you!!!
I do follow rules. Once more this discussion has proved to me that system is system and P&L would only dependent on who is trading.
I'm making money with it and there are people in the room who are making money. In most cases we trade London by using Skype. I have been in the Skype with several traders who are making money every day. We are looking for one kind of set up and are taking it. System does work perhaps this system is not for you to trade.
As Sharky just recently has shown he can take anything and make money with it. Do you trust Sharky? In fact he has even stated that he can make money with birds droppings just because he knows how to trade.
Have you looked at Perry's system. Perry is great trader and have shared his know how with all of us. Easy system, but I could not make money with it. I even made an indicator to make it work and still could not make it to work. So is it Perry, or Gregory.
Look at some post from Wizard Holy Grail I could not make it to work ether, but he is trading and making money.
Jeff_CCI I could not make it work. Should I continue? I do not think so. I think all got my point.
Sorry you could not make system to work for you, but have you thought perhaps it is not eminisniper's system stopping you from making money but the way you are looking at their system and You.
It is very interesting to read different posts how people complaining when they cannot make something to work. It is never them it is always someone else regardless how much we pay for the system. From free to hundreds and hundreds of thousand of dollars there are always going to be unhappy camper. I have been trading for about 4 years and have bought and traded a lot of systems that would not make money for me, but I always came back and found it was Gregory who could not trade.
And one other point think positive you only invested $99.00 that does not work. Next dude bought the same for more.
Best trading to you all
TickVix/Gregory
The following 4 users say Thank You to tickvix for this post:
Respectfully, I disagree with this in total. @MetalTrade has accurately portrayed the eminisniper system. If you read my posts in this thread you will get the facts. If anyone is making money with the eminisniper system it is not by following the rules in their ebook, as demonstrated in their chat room, and that I purchased. If you, or Monpere or others are trading successfully, good for you. This, however, is a thread about eminisniper. And to represent that this system is "good" or that it "works" or that someone is using the system and making money with it is simply false, misleading and disingenuous.
And one more point... it's not just @MetalTrade that is not making money with eminisniper. Neither of the moderators in the room have made money with the system either. In fact, they are fortunate to only be trading single contracts or just during this past week alone they would have lost significant amounts. For those in the room, open your eyes and watch the trades they take. Not the trades they say they "should have taken." Watch their trades. See for yourself. Mercy.
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I am neutral, to pessimistic about eminisniper, until they can prove themselves profitable in their own trading room, trading their system to the letter. I also looked at the other systems you looked at, and the difference between them and the eminisniper system, is that the others leave too much to subjectivity. Their systems are not well defined enough. I don't know if it is by design, or because the authors cannot formulate their thoughts precisely enough to give a precise rule set.
Someone wrote an indicator for one of the other systems you mentioned, and for every 100 bars there are probably 75 valid entries. How is a trader suppose to trade that without adding his own subjectivity to that system. That system cannot be accountable for it's own profitability, it is not specifically well defined enough. If you trade and make money, you are trading a customized concept of it. If you find such a loosely defined system then either don't buy it, or buy it because you think you might learn something from the concept. I spend $99 on eminsniper because, for me that price was worth getting the details of their concept, and I consider it payment for my continuing education.
What I like about the eminisniper system, is that the rules are very specific, very concise. If you trade exactly according to the rules, and money management and it does not work, it is because the system does not work, not the fault of the trader pulling the trigger. A well defined system, should not make money for one person, and lose money for another, if both persons follow the rules to the letter. It almost seems that some people design systems very loosely on purpose, leaving much to discretion, so that failure of the system can be blamed on the trader, not the system itself.
If you look at this thread, there have been several people who said they are making money with this system, but the entries that they show on their charts do not meet the official criteria of the eminisniper system. They are not trading the system, they are trading a derivation of it, trading their implementation of the idea, but not the system. They DO NOT prove that this system works. If there are traders who follow 100% of the rules and money management and lose money, then they do prove that the problem is not with the trader, the problem is with the system.
I am not for or against emini sniper and I don't trade their system. I am just looking at what works or not. I wrote an indicator to follow their rules mechanically, and take their entries to the letter, I added my own money management to make it a fixed 2:1 reward risk ratio, and that has given it a positive expectancy and makes it profitable system, theoritically, so far from the data I have looked at. So, I can say that my implementation of their idea seems to work. I suspect their system traded 100% to their rules probably is not profitable, but I cannot say for sure, I have not tested it in that way. I could implement their money management as well to verify, but I am not interested in proving any system right or wrong, I am just interested in whatever works, 100% pure or customized.
Guys like Sharky can trade bird droppings because there are some, very few, with a natural talent or ability and instinct for the markets. That is why there is not an array of Sharky's on the forum. For the rest of us we need systems that are well defined. When Sharky reveals his bird droppings trading method, if he defines it well enough, I'm gonna make a shit load (pun intended) of money trading it just like he does
The following 4 users say Thank You to monpere for this post:
Quoting MetalTrade When I started trading I thought that this game would be trowing some money in, be smart, read some books and earn a living. I was wrong. Very wrong.
I joined a trading room who is specialized in Forex trading and the guy told me : we have NO BLOWN UP ACCOUNTS and you will learn how to trade for a living !
For a guy who blew up his first account in a blink of an eye that was really an eye catcher !
I bought his indicators and started learning on sim with him. I learned a bunch, I could ask him anything for days and days and days, from stupid things to hard core heavy trading insight things. He always answered. And explained again and again. He learned me all I know. He learned me also what my problem is in trading and how to fix it, and I'm working on it to fix it.
I hear many people about trading rooms that they are just a lie, but my room must be different then, he trades live money, he looses money when we loose money, he wins when we wins and he's monthly positive even in the last bad holiday months (al do a lot less than during the year) he calls the trades before he enters and provides explanation about the trades he enters.
This may be a guide for people who are looking for a trading room, you could check this list :
Positive things : * Moderator trades with real money * Trades always called in advance and never after the fact * Answers all my stupid questions, never ignores me * Cameradi between members * Structured learning system * Works with same software I'm working with (Ninjatrader and Multicharts) * If I would have done 100% what he learned me I would have NOT lost money, but I didn't so I lost * True mentoring, I need that, it's the fastest way for me to learn, it's also a control mechanism, it's an experienced trader sitting next to you day by day * Not scared to change his system/charts according to market situation * He has a free test 1 week system * It's not a magic new system, it's solid real high level technical trading * He's honest, I confronted him with certain things and he just honestly answered like it is. * Forex and Futures
Negative things: * He's a IB and I think he takes money from trades I make ? My broker denies it when I ask him about it ? * You have to pay an extra monthly fee ($16/month for the software he uses to share his room, and it can crash a few times in a week) * It's not cheap but worth the money IMHO * The indicators he uses are a combination of daily zones/fibonacci but that's not really 100% clear what they are, but once you have them you don't really care because they work correctly
Would I have done it again, absolutely, I would have quit already or would have lost more money without having a clue what my problem was. A mentor is mandatory for me. Remember if I would have followed his trades and not mine I would have won money instead of lost money.
@MetalTrade ...maybe you should go back to this room
The following user says Thank You to fireman912 for this post:
Sharky is just someone who has put in the effort to become a good trader. Some are in that process and journey and others are always waiting for something to save them (a system).
I believe you can pick up any system (any any any) and make it profitable. However, as you grow as a trader (Screen Time) you will see that what your original system started at is completely different then your current system etc..
I trade a system that up until now I was a basket case. I was not trading to the rules and decided that I knew better etc..
I kept talking to others who it didn't work for and I had to confirm that it wasn't poor little old me. I realize now that it is completely ME.
I personally believe the more systematic it is the more it will fail. The only perfect trading computer is you. You just have to peel back the layers to find that person.
@MetalTrade, I believe that you need to decide to have this complaint brought up to the moderators and they adjust or you move on. Focus your time mastering one system and before you know it you will find a peace within that you KNOW subconsciously that you will have no problem being profitable.
The following 3 users say Thank You to bluemele for this post:
i can trade well enough because iv'e paid for it i studied and continue to study 8 years now i have given up a lot to learn this....like girlfriends free time sleep,i locked myself in my house and studied for one year 18 hr's per day 7 days a week,after that year i was a mental nutcase,i really didnt have any outside contact,i saved enough money to hide away for a year,it was a year of inner battels and study of charts and myself,but to be fair to systems, if the system rules are bad then you cant trade it,if the system rules are flexible then you can make it work somehow if and only if you can trade alittle bit anyways,i cant really make money with bird poop but give me a bird and ill try...sharky
ps i posted a simple scalping method in my sharky real world room go and try it and see if you can make that work the rules are not set in stone except respect the ma under over trades and add or take other indicators away to suit your needs
KILLING THE MARKETS DAILY
The following 10 users say Thank You to sharky for this post:
I had the same Journey as you Sharky. I am in my 5th year now. Like you I saved enough money to survive for a couple of years, quit my job, locked myself in my house, and scoured over charts day and night. My friends thought I was turning into the unabomber. I still do that now (scour over charts, not making bombs ), it has become a normal habit. But that gave me intimate knowledge of my indicators, and the method that I trade.
I think overall, every trader needs to know their method inside and out, when it works best, when it does not. Jumping from system to system will get you frustrated very quick. Find a concept that you believe in, and learn it well. For me it was MACD divergence, so I learned everything about the MACD to the point I could tell you what it would look like if you changed one parameter. Knowing it that well, I also realized it's limitation, and as a result, I actually no longer use it, and have switched to the RSI a year ago cause it performs better for me. Ultimately, to be successful, you have to know and believe in the method you are trading.
The following 11 users say Thank You to monpere for this post:
Since I haven't bought the eminisniper course, I can only speculate....maybe they did have a great time in November, December and in the months before and they figured that they had discovered a profitable strategy. And now the market is teaching them a lesson, namely that certain indicators/settings work sometime but not all the time.
Maybe the moderators aren't experienced enough to adapt to the different price action and find themselves at a loss while others such as Birgir were able to adapt, either by letting certain setups pass or by changing, adding sth. to the rules. Maybe he and those who swear it is profitable aren't even aware of the fact that they are trading a modfied version of eminisniper.
The following user says Thank You to TheSeeker for this post:
Wauw, so you dig up a post and tell me to go south because me and others complain about some claimed un-true facts about a commercial trading system ?
So instead of talking about the system itself, you try to dig up something from the past and throw it into the face of the critics ? Are you in politics ?
It's even funny. I hope the readers and potential buyers of this system think twice. I follow this system and I'm loosing BIGTIME. Please talk about this what I'm doing wrong. All my trades are 100% according to the system, even the conservative divergence trades are not working as advertised. I skyped all my trades with charts to the emini owners and they agreed that I did absolute correct high probability trades who didn't worked out.
If they loose money in the morning EU session, they say it's slow in the EU session, if they loose money in the USA session they say the EU session in the morning is better. Face it, their system is worthless in January, they need to fix their system or close down the room and give people like me the money back, it's only $299 though. My biggest loss is in the trades I did I would never do otherwise.
I'm still looking at the trades and system, but so far they are messing up, the day they fixed it I will be the first to post it here.
I can tell you exactly what you did wrong...you traded a system you just purchased and went straight to live trading instead first sim trading the system...no one should trade live unless they are profitable first in sim
The following 3 users say Thank You to fireman912 for this post:
And... the people who sell such systems should be held accountable for the damage they do. They used Beth and picked up a truckload of customers. And she's sending them cookies. Let's see how long it takes "uknowwho" to help her figure it out.
Today is a US Holiday, their primary trading vehicle is the 6E, and their chat room is closed. I seriously doubt they even know the 6E market is open. They spend more time worrying about what chat room software to use than on executing successful trades. It will be fun to see what part of their system they change next. Buyer Beware.
The following 2 users say Thank You to timefreedom for this post:
I had six good profitable trades on 6E today.
I took them all by the sniper rules
market is going up and down and therefore there were some good oppertunities.
. But yes, you are correct, compared to periods that most traders trade, both of these are extremely fast pace for most traders. I can't enter on these charts manually. Given that these are range bars, I know where the bar is going to close in advance, and I have automated entries already waiting where the bar will close way ahead of time.
I actually experienced the same with my own 
. Sorry, I can't resist taking a shot at the discretionary guys now and then 
